Poll

What do you think of this idea for Angelshares?

I like the idea as it is
18 (35.3%)
I like the idea but posted things I think should be different
6 (11.8%)
I don't like the idea, Invictus should not raise more money
5 (9.8%)
I don't like the idea, Invictus should only sell PTS or Bitshares
22 (43.1%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Author Topic: [POLL] Setting another 10% Bitshares as "Angelshares" to fundraise for DACS  (Read 14783 times)

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Offline Lighthouse

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I'm not sure if I understand what's being discussed. Did I miss something from bytemaster? Does he want to create a PTS2.0 or something?

Yes, although he has walked back from the idea now
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1397.0
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline 8bit

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I'm not sure if I understand what's being discussed. Did I miss something from bytemaster? Does he want to create a PTS2.0 or something?
Code: [Select]
wallet_approve_delegate eightbitA VOTE FOR EIGHTBIT IS A VOTE FOR CRUDE DICK ART

Offline threepoint14

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I am not so sure about the whole 'exodus address' concept. Sounds to much like 'Mastercoin' to me. Drop a BTC and get 10X returns in two weeks at no other price than a mouse click. The point of mining in this regard is that it serves as a tool to make a somewhat even distribution of wealth possible based on the effort and time people are willing to put into something, as opposed to a system where capital the only motor.

Invictus did a very good job at that. They put Protoshares in the market and it required nothing else than time invested. Mastercoin* in my opionion is a school example of the deranged capitalist paradigm in which only the rich get richer; the exact same paradigm that sparked my interest in crypto in the first place. On a sidenote: Memorycoin 2.0 launched a couple of hours ago and is already struggling with god knows how many hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of rented servers thrown at it.

*where as the name already made me vomit the part where the devs spoke of a 'group of Chinese investors' expressing interest made me want to eat my vomit and regurgitate.


Offline Mrrr

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I am not so sure about the whole 'exodus address' concept. Sounds to much like 'Mastercoin' to me. Drop a BTC and get 10X returns in two weeks at no other price than a mouse click. The point of mining in this regard is that it serves as a tool to make a somewhat even distribution of wealth possible based on the effort and time people are willing to put into something, as opposed to a system where capital the only motor.

Invictus did a very good job at that. They put Protoshares in the market and it required nothing else than time invested. Mastercoin* in my opionion is a school example of the deranged capitalist paradigm in which only the rich get richer; the exact same paradigm that sparked my interest in crypto in the first place. On a sidenote: Memorycoin 2.0 launched a couple of hours ago and is already struggling with god knows how many hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of rented servers thrown at it.

*where as the name already made me vomit the part where the devs spoke of a 'group of Chinese investors' expressing interest made me want to eat my vomit and regurgitate.

Offline Gekko

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Keeping PTS "1.0" as they are is necessary and good. Even if mining doesn't pay at current rates / difficulty, but no one knows where PTS will be in 2014.

As for Angelshares/coins I'm not sure how they could be evenly/fair divided. Angelshares without mining would mean already rich people will get even richer by being able to invest more BTC into Angelshares right from the beginning. By mining poorer people would be able to get a good amount of "coins" while difficulty is low. - If Invictus wants to avoid mining they should think about mechanisms to give poorer investors a chance of getting lots of Angel"coins" by being fast/early/whatever. Just being rich shouldn't give anybody such a huge advantage at the start of a new "investment round".
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 10:05:57 pm by Gekko »

Offline Lighthouse

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It was pointed out in the other thread that Bitshares is supposed to be out sooner than in 21 months, I think it is still appropriate to target this number of months because things don't always go to plan and as a startup you want to have "a long runway" so that even if it takes a few extra months you can not need to raise funds in a time of weakness where you might be compelled to take a bad deal because you have few options.

I believe Invictus should be able to essentially presell another 10% of Bitshares to fund its creation, but I disagree with them taking more than 25% in this way.   If that was the dicision that was to be made, they needed to do it before the first set of promises were made. 
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.

Offline Lighthouse

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[POLL] Setting another 10% Bitshares as "Angelshares" to fundraise for DACS
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2013, 09:10:15 pm »
Ok, so there's been a conversation going on about how to fund the creation of future DACs as there are far more opportunities than funds.  I believe the proposal put forward by Bytemaster to have 100% of Bitshares represented by angelshares and protoshares is a non-starter because it means that all coins that will potentially be created will be owned only by people able to contribute in Bitcoin, when the perception of PTS currently (as a "CPU MINABLE COIN" is that you don't need to do that.   I believe even if the vast majority of mining being performed by participants on the network is done by botnets or cloud miners, the initial marketing of Protoshares makes it untenable to change the social contract in any way that is not optional on a investor by investor basis.

With that in mind, I think we all recognize the value of having sufficient funds devoted to the creation of DACs and I for one have no problem putting my money where my mouth is. 

I would encourage the creation of PTS 2.0 (Angelcoins) that would be another 10% of Bitshares's 21 million, so 20% of total Bitshares would be claimed at the beginning through these two rounds of "venture".

Instead of the validated mining plan that turns Invictus into a central point of failure, Invictus should set up weekly or monthly "Exodus Addresses" and replicate Mastercoin, people send BTC or PTS to "Angel" addresses and at the end of that round whatever the allocation is, is divided evenly between the people who sent value on a proportional basis.   These funds should be clearly labeled with regard to how each % will be spent.

The exodus address would be transparent, so if people see that not many have invested they will want to invest becaues they will get more value for their value.   Invictus controls the address, but each distribution basically results in a large block that issues shares to all investors in the last round.   If I were you I would accept both Bitcoin and PTS in these angel rounds, and accept PTS at a premium to Bitcoin.

2.1 million would be  21 months @ 100k Angelcoins per month - The deal stays the same with Protosharesholders, you get to raise a shitload of money to finance multiple DACs at once and try your new mechanism.  The miners still working on PTS get to keep working, and you don't have to do anything.

Most importantly, Invictus hasn't committed to what they'll do with the other 80%, so when they really solve the problem and have the RIGHT idea their won't have tied yourself down.

What do you think?
Before you say the price of PTS is too high, take a look at theThe Reason.  Protoshares are an entirely new type of Cryptocurrency, one that pays to hold.