Will Darkcoin pass Bitshares today or tomorrow?

[xiahui135]

bitshares will survive because of useful  for people. Better than other coin will not let us survive. Only when adopted by real businesses, we will succeed.

[fuzzy]

The spark comes from here?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10426592#msg10426592

Does anyone have a clue how InstantX is supposed to work?
Paper here: https://www.darkcoin.io/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/InstantTX.pdf

I think they get the idea from nxt instantDEX. With this tech, exchanges can be made immediately, not have to wait the block time.
Nxt instantDEX has run more than half a year ( i have forgotten when it exactly be launched)

The last time I talked to the people of Darkcoin, which wasn't too long ago, they said their technology actually only made transactions instant in test nets.  The transaction speeds at large scale were actually closer to 20-30 seconds, which still would make BitShares technologically a cut above them. 

Of course i'm not an engineer so I will leave it up to them to let me know just how correct this is.

[xiahui135]

The spark comes from here?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10426592#msg10426592

Does anyone have a clue how InstantX is supposed to work?
Paper here: https://www.darkcoin.io/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/InstantTX.pdf

I think they get the idea from nxt instantDEX. With this tech, exchanges can be made immediately, not have to wait the block time.
Nxt instantDEX has run more than half a year ( i have forgotten when it exactly be launched)

[vlight]

No, because BitShares will skyrocket soon and leave Darkcoin behind forever.    lol

[cass]

My strategy has been buy a coin just before Max Keiser starts to talk about it on TV I'm sure if Bytesmaster would ask to be on the show with Max Keiser, it would boost BTS, and Max has a new coin to talk about - win win

yup guess so

FWIW, he re-posted an article about BitShares on his blog back in November.
http://www.maxkeiser.com/2014/11/this-little-known-crypto-asset-might-disrupt-the-current-financial-order/

check cmc at this timeframe ...

[Akado]

So at this time of the night i like to brainstorm, specially when i cant sleep eheh

It seems -from the few ppl sharing their opinion about it here- that sdc is prefered over darkcoin. And.ive noticed people here would like to see anonymous transactions. Also, at the same time, there seems to be a lack of funds on the sdc community, or at least it seemed so when they tried to raise the 5 btc to get a review on their code. So why not reaching out to them and helping them implement DPOS? They're already PS. Theyy could be a sidechain of bitshares or simply let them be independent, "shadowcash, powered by bitsares" then maybe later in the future they could help us go anonymous or develop an extension to add to our client. Either way, it would be a win-win situation. A far fetched one but a cool one. We would stand out as a brand and possibly get future new features, they would  get the funding they need so they can continue developing freely and both would get more recognition. It would definitely make some headlines on the crypto world its far fetched maybe but its just something i.would like to share. If somehow that happened, maybe other projects would like to be "powered by BitShares"

[jsidhu]

Cryptocurrencies dont actually have uptrends.

They have spikes that happen in a very short period of time (usually days).  A spike occurs when some news event or pump happens, which sucks in a bunch of hot money from other coins.   The spike is followed by a long downtrend where the coin bleeds value for months.

A good strategy in crypto is probably to have a bit of a lot of different coins.  Any time a coin has a spike, sell all of it (wait for momentum to stall like has now happened in DRK, then sell).  Redistribute the money into coins that have been in very long downtrends.  Wait until this coin has bled down a long way before you get back in.  Repeat.

never know when u miss the big move imagine all those selling bitcoin at 0.50 because it spiked what they feel now

[bluebit]

My strategy has been buy a coin just before Max Keiser starts to talk about it on TV I'm sure if Bytesmaster would ask to be on the show with Max Keiser, it would boost BTS, and Max has a new coin to talk about - win win

[Ander]

Cryptocurrencies dont actually have uptrends.

They have spikes that happen in a very short period of time (usually days).  A spike occurs when some news event or pump happens, which sucks in a bunch of hot money from other coins.   The spike is followed by a long downtrend where the coin bleeds value for months.

A good strategy in crypto is probably to have a bit of a lot of different coins.  Any time a coin has a spike, sell all of it (wait for momentum to stall like has now happened in DRK, then sell).  Redistribute the money into coins that have been in very long downtrends.  Wait until this coin has bled down a long way before you get back in.  Repeat.

[bluebit]

Was that pic taken on the moon?

[chryspano]

shitcoin  PayCoin Darkcoin to the moon!!! Don't miss the train!! Next stop pluto!!

Don't believe in gravity, there is no such thing!!

[clayop]

they will.
BTS is "dying".

DRK was dying as well.

[lzr1900]

they will.
BTS is "dying".

[Ander]

The lead developer mentions here that their development team is the second largest just behind Bitcoin

http://youtu.be/5zPYWEPh_Us?t=50m30s

Sounds impossible given how many people work for Ripple.

[bluebit]

I'd rather sell DRK for BitUSD

This is what Bitshares needs, a video of Bytemaster with a Russian translator or Chinese - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Pk-oKSGwg

[clayop]

I used to have thee masternodes and thousands of DRK. Darkcoin has a great team and clever ecosystem design. But it cannot overcome the limitation of PoW. The implementation of DRK rise for us is that if develop team is diligent and community is strong, someday it will be highlighted. If I were DRK owner, I would sell DRK now and buy BTS.

[bluebit]

The lead developer mentions here that their development team is the second largest just behind Bitcoin

http://youtu.be/5zPYWEPh_Us?t=50m30s

[Empirical1.2]

The spark comes from here?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10426592#msg10426592

That announcement thread has 2.75 million views, wow.

I don't think DRK will pass BTS.

I think they have 20% inflation, that makes it quite hard to sustain a higher CAP in a bear market anyway.

[LRENZ]

Dark wanted to buy out ShadowCash last year but were denied, you can find the proposal online somewhere. Shadow has crowdfunded 5 BTC to get the code reviewed by some crypto expert that I forget his name and findings will be posted in coming weeks. Their method for anonymity just seems better to me because its simpler in design, dark on the other hand have done well but strikes me as over-engineered. The simplest ideas always seem to win in the long run because they have less points for failure.

I don't think dark will pass bts.

[Rune]

Wow, its still going strong. Still dont think it has a chance of passing bitshares but this is an impressive run.

[.yoshi]

Why are posts being deleted? And who is deleting them?

[arhag]

I just got into DRK today, so I don't have much knowledge of Masternodes

My mistake. I misread the post that was deleted.

[bluebit]

I just got into DRK today, so I don't have much knowledge of Masternodes

[bluebit]

I didn't delete my posts

[arhag]

Weird... why were bluebit and vlight's posts deleted?

Anyway, I have some other issues with the transaction locking mechanism.

Let's take t = the total number of Masternodes, as the paper does. But let us also define l = number of lazy Masternodes. I define a lazy Masternode as one who will not bother participating in the consensus process if elected as an authority node for that block. I see no mechanism discussed to not pay them if they refuse to reach consensus. In fact, I'm not sure how the network would really even be able to decide that (this is where nodes that have reputation, delegates, that can be voted out based on human judgement comes in handy). So, if a Masternode is going to be paid anyway for being a Masternode regardless of whether they participate in the consensus process for confirming locked transaction or not, we must assume some percentage of them will be lazy.

The probably of selecting 10 authority nodes that do not have any lazy Masternodes is p = ((t - l)!/(t - l - 10)!) / ((t)!/(t - 10)!) = ((t - l)! * (t - 10)!) / ((t)! * (t - l - 10)!). Then, ln(p) = ln((t-l)!) + ln((t-10)!) - ln(t!) - ln((t-l-10)!). If I assume that t is large and that l/t is not to close to 1 (say l/t <= 0.5), then I can use Stirling's approximation to get an estimate of ln(p): ln(p) ≈ (t-l)*ln(t-l) - (t-l) + (t-10)*ln(t-10) - (t-10) - t*ln(t) + t - (t-l-10)*ln(t-l-10) + (t-l-10) = (t-l)*ln(t-l) + (t-10)*ln(t-10) - t*ln(t) - (t-l-10)*ln(t-l-10). Define f = 1 - l/t. Then ln(p) ≈ t*f*ln(t*f) + (t-10)*ln(t-10) - t*ln(t) - (t*f-10)*ln(t*f-10).

So, p ≈ exp(t*f*ln(t*f) + (t-10)*ln(t-10) - t*ln(t) - (t*f-10)*ln(t*f-10)), and f = 0.5 corresponds to half of the Masternodes being lazy while t = 1 corresponds to none of the Masternodes being lazy. And (1-p) is the probability of failing to reach consensus due to the existence of at least one lazy Masternode in the set of 10 randomly chosen authority nodes. I have plotted this probability for a choice of t = 1000 here. Even if 15% of the Masternodes are lazy, that will result in an approximately 80% failure rate. That means 80% of the time, users will have to wait for the slow confirmations rather than the fast ones. If you want the failure rate to be less than 5%, you will need less than 0.5% of the nodes to be lazy (which seems extremely unrealistic to me unless you have a way to punish authority nodes that fail to reach consensus).

[infovortice2013]

and dark admit all nodes that people wanna make to make instantX transactions, to run node you need 1000 darkcoins

and have a big bitcoin whale respalding it making fat buy walls

and bitcoin loosing price

very active and opened comunity, has more than 4k post on bitcointalk

darkcoin serius proyect looks like

[vlight]

..., but I see the Darkcoin wallet as very polished compared to Bitshares wallet, it works, and doesn't crash.

But it's just a standard Bitcoin wallet's clone. It's boring and overused 

While BitShares main wallet requires more powerful hardware, it's still way more cool. 

[Rune]

Still, doesn't Shadow have better technology anonymity wise? Or at least, that's what I heard.

Shadow is in a completely different league. They have something that actually approaches true anonymity, like zerocoin (but without the counterparty risk drawback). Problem is their blockchain gets super bloated and I think you need to do proof of work to send an anonymous transaction.

It's the shadow tech bitshares should copy when we one day want to implement anonymity, far out in the future.

[Rune]

it's anonymous and now with it's increased speed, it's almost instant, looks very promising

Bitshares : Propagating blocks every 10 seconds won't allow the network to grow very large without tons of orphans. Darkcoin solves this by locking transactions into the next block while the block is being solved, this gives you the best of both worlds, really fast confirmation with a really stable network.

Darkcoin isn't really anonymous, it just uses coinjoin. I think it's basically at the same level of privacy as the stealth transactions that bitshares uses, although its possible they have more transactions in general and thus more obscurity.

And I don't think there's any indication that it will scale better than bitshares. Since ultimately only the delegates need to maintain full nodes we'd only need 101 times visas processing power to process visa level transactions. I don't think darkcoin would be secure with that few nodes. I also can't see why there would be any performance gain from propagating transactions individually rather than in blocks, in fact im pretty sure it decreases performance since you'd now have to propagate all information 3 times: when it's sent, when its instant confirmed, and when its in the block.

[Akado]

Still, doesn't Shadow have better technology anonymity wise? Or at least, that's what I heard.

[bluebit]

I am all for Bitshares, I use BitUSD and working on an app for Bitshares, but I see the Darkcoin wallet as very polished compared to Bitshares wallet, it works, and doesn't crash.

[nomoreheroes7]

who wants to wait 10 sec? when you can wait 3 sec...

Who wants to wait 3 sec? when you can wait 1 sec...

There comes a point of diminishing usefulness.

[arhag]

who wants to wait 10 sec? when you can wait 3 sec...

Diminishing returns...

But if you really want that, it is possible to do in BitShares (in fact I remember proposing something like that a while ago, I'll see if I can find it here it is). Replace "authority nodes" with delegates and replace unanimous consensus with 90% consensus. Except now we have accountability and can actually punish the delegates if they lie. Whereas with Darkcoin, they cannot punish them and simply need to fallback to slow confirmations if the randomly selected 10 nodes cannot reach consensus.

[bluebit]

who wants to wait 10 sec? when you can wait 3 sec...

[arhag]

Bitshares : Propagating blocks every 10 seconds won't allow the network to grow very large without tons of orphans. Darkcoin solves this by locking transactions into the next block while the block is being solved, this gives you the best of both worlds, really fast confirmation with a really stable network.

Why are you assuming the 10 second block interval on BitShares will be a serious problem as the number of transactions increases? More importantly, why do you not apply that same criticism regarding the propagation of locked transactions over the Darkcoin network as their transactions per second increase? There are fundamental limits here dealing with network latencies and conditions that restrict how fast confirmations can happen. I don't really see how the handicap of proof of work causing long block intervals provides them with any "stability".

[arhag]

Does anyone have a clue how InstantX is supposed to work?
Paper here: https://www.darkcoin.io/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/InstantTX.pdf

I quickly read through the paper and this is what I got out of it. They are deciding on whether a transaction is good or not by unanimous consensus of some number (they chose 10) nodes (called "Authority nodes") that are randomly chosen every block out of a set of nodes called "Masternodes". Masternodes are nodes that lock up 1000 DRK as collateral to become a Masternode (that is their protection against Sybil attacks). They can unlock the collateral whenever they want, but they will then no longer be a Masternode.

Basically, they are using proof of stake to quickly confirm transactions. The blockchain still uses proof of work though, so it is a hybrid system.

[Ander]

Looks like the third pump attempt failed to reach a new high. There could be a 4th attempt but i doubt it. Btw isnt it interesting how drk is listed on bitfinex yet has almost no volume there? Cryptsy is really the place for altcoins to get serious volume.

Dump any dark you have since it failed to go over .015 again.
It will go back down but probably stabilize at a higher level than it started, since the news is based on something real.  But it again then.

[CLains]

pump on hype != market manipulation

[nomoreheroes7]

Maybe we cut our block times so we can get a nice pump going as well.

The reduced block times are just the banner of the pump. A pump group can use any fancy new feature this way, it doesn't have to be reduced block times (in fact I'd say that's a pretty weak feature to pump on really). Ultimately this is entirely market manipulation and an attempt to catch fools that buy into the euphoria. At the same time it's also quite good marketing for the coin (assuming the dump isn't too violent), suddenly darkcoin is a hot topic and people who had otherwise forgotten about it might revisit it again.

This. This is about as obvious as market manipulation gets.

Hell doesn't BTS already have 5 second average confirmation times? How is 3.5 seconds that much better? lol

[bluebit]

it's anonymous and now with it's increased speed, it's almost instant, looks very promising

Bitshares : Propagating blocks every 10 seconds won't allow the network to grow very large without tons of orphans. Darkcoin solves this by locking transactions into the next block while the block is being solved, this gives you the best of both worlds, really fast confirmation with a really stable network.

[Rune]

Maybe we cut our block times so we can get a nice pump going as well.

The reduced block times are just the banner of the pump. A pump group can use any fancy new feature this way, it doesn't have to be reduced block times (in fact I'd say that's a pretty weak feature to pump on really). Ultimately this is entirely market manipulation and an attempt to catch fools that buy into the euphoria. At the same time it's also quite good marketing for the coin (assuming the dump isn't too violent), suddenly darkcoin is a hot topic and people who had otherwise forgotten about it might revisit it again.

[santaclause102]

The spark comes from here?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10426592#msg10426592

Does anyone have a clue how InstantX is supposed to work?
Paper here: https://www.darkcoin.io/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/InstantTX.pdf

[clout]

Maybe we cut our block times so we can get a nice pump going as well.

[cube]

The spark comes from here?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10426592#msg10426592

[dna_gym]

This shows an example demand is stronger when dedicating purely to "money-ness".

[bluebit]

They are still pumping, look at all the buy support: https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/cryptsy/drkbtc

[Rune]

Looks like the third pump attempt failed to reach a new high. There could be a 4th attempt but i doubt it. Btw isnt it interesting how drk is listed on bitfinex yet has almost no volume there? Cryptsy is really the place for altcoins to get serious volume.

[bluebit]

http://coinmarketcap.com/

Something brewing with DRK