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Offline bitsapphire

Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« on: February 14, 2015, 09:00:44 PM »

Hello everybody,

At Bitsapphire we have been working tirelessly for the last few months on our own BitShares wallet called Moonstone. You can subscribe for updates on Twitter, Facebook, or Google+. Working with the BitShares Music / Peertracks team has helped us tremendously to advance the Moonstone architecture beyond what we initially planned.

4 developers have been working on the Moonstone full-time so far, while the entire team of 17 people gave regular input to the project.

Intro screen videos will be added to this thread next week. We hope to be able to present the project in a mumble talk and answer any community questions.

We plan on doing a kickstarter-style fundraiser within a few weeks and wanted to get the community’s feedback on our fundraiser approach. We have already recorder the video for the fundraiser and we are working on video editing, etc.

The plan is as follows:
  • February: Launch the Moonstone landing page and get the word out.
  • March: We’ll do a scaled kickstarter with a minimum of 130,000 USD worth in BTC/BTS and no upper limit. Donation period would be 30 days.
  • We’ll map everybody’s public keys and send Bitsapphire UIAs to the corresponding public keys on BitShares. For every USD worth in BTC/BTS you send you’ll get 1.1 Bitsapphire UIAs.
  • Once the campaign ends and we reach the sufficient budget, our user friendly wallet will be released under the MIT license (this means that anybody will have the right to use our code also for for-profit reasons). This is especially appealing to projects out there which need lightweight DPOS wallets but don’t want to develop it themselves. Future DPOS forked projects will also be able to easily use the code.
  • The wallet will have 3-5 hardcoded delegates. All proceedings from the delegates will be converted to bitUSD. 100% of these bitUSD will be used to set 1:1 buy orders for the Bitsapphire UIAs you received.
  • This means that anybody who sent donations will receive 10% more than put in. Depending on the BTS market cap, this means that you’ll effectively get your donation back in 5-30 months (rough calculation based on historical BTS market cap, not binding and dependent on Delegate proceedings).
  • If we fail to reach our budget the Moonstone Angular frontend will be released under the more restrictive GPL3 license which makes it impossible to use the code for for-profit reasons. The backend which makes the light client possible remains closed source. Nonetheless, the wallet will be released with the same number of delegates and whatever budget we got will be converted as planned with a 1:1 ratio.

All funds received are considered donations, no actions on our part are binding in any way. However, similar to the BitShares no-force approach we intend on following through with the above steps (unless the community gives us at this point good counter arguments or better proposals).

We’d love to get input from the community. What do you think?

Register and get your personal Moonstone Wallet Beta here: https://moonstone.io/login-register.html

Offline graffenwalder

Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2015, 10:00:36 PM »
Quote
The wallet will have 3-5 hardcoded delegates. All proceedings from the delegates will be converted to bitUSD. 100% of these bitUSD will be used to set 1:1 buy orders for the Bitsapphire UIAs you received.
What does this mean. Every chain that wishes to use the wallet, will have to put up 3-5 delegates?

Offline roadscape

Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2015, 10:01:10 PM »
Excited to see what you've created!

Essentially the $130,000 fundraiser-loan allows the community to "buy" an MIT license. Do I understand correctly?

Assuming BTS stays around 1 cent, 4 delegates would make $130k in 25 months.. what are the plans for your delegates at that point?

You say hard-coded delegates.. users will still be able to unvote, right?
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Offline xeroc

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Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2015, 10:08:22 PM »
Nice fundraising ideas with the ious .. as roadscape mentioned .. what will happend after ious are bought back ... or .. what id the hardcoded delegates wont make it into the top 101?
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2015, 10:16:19 PM »
Aren't there at least to other light wallets in developement: Yunbi and Valentine? Why another one?

Offline robrigo

Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2015, 10:25:58 PM »
Step 2 says "Sign up online or install the wallet on your PC". Does that mean moonstone will have a web wallet interface on top of a native client?

Offline bitsapphire

Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2015, 10:32:07 PM »
Excited to see what you've created!

Essentially the $130,000 fundraiser-loan allows the community to "buy" an MIT license. Do I understand correctly?

Assuming BTS stays around 1 cent, 4 delegates would make $130k in 25 months.. what are the plans for your delegates at that point?

You say hard-coded delegates.. users will still be able to unvote, right?

Exactly roadscape! After talking to many potential stakeholders it seems that an MIT license would do the most good, but we need to cover our costs so far. We've been investing most of our company's margin into Moonstone so far.

We hope that with the introduction of a much more user friendly (and modular) wallet, BitShares might increase in market cap pretty quickly. After all, nobody I know with large BTS holdings has used the current wallet due to several issues. Potentially new users are also put off by the current wallet issues. Moonstone is a light wallet, so no blockchain syncing needed.

The hard-coded delegates won't be able to be unvoted on the wallet until our goal is reached. However, anybody could fork the wallet and put it out there without the hard-coded delegates. We believe though that due to our added value such as identity verification for external exchanges, as well as encrypted storage of config and wallet files users would prefer our official version.

Nice fundraising ideas with the ious .. as roadscape mentioned .. what will happend after ious are bought back ... or .. what id the hardcoded delegates wont make it into the top 101?

Very good question. Once the UIAs are bought back we intend to make the delegate vote opt-out. Any further delegate income will be subject to normal delegate voting.

The hardcoded delegates not making it into the list is a risk, but also an opportunity for the donors. The way we look at this is that the donors would start promoting the wallet and our delegates based on rational self interest. Very much the way Bitshares people promote Bitshares itself. If the delegates don;t make it we will also announce a max buy-back period for the UIA, probably 50 Months or so.
Register and get your personal Moonstone Wallet Beta here: https://moonstone.io/login-register.html

Offline fluxer555

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Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2015, 10:36:43 PM »
I will boycott and actively lobby against this wallet if there is a hardcoded-delegate version released as the official version.

Hardcoding delegates sets a very, very bad precedent. We do not want to walk down that road.

Offline Ander

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Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2015, 10:42:52 PM »
Instead of hardcoded delegates, how about recommended delegates that the user can vote for by default, but they can turn off?
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Offline fluxer555

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Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2015, 10:45:29 PM »
DecentralizeEconomics (aka 2Kool4Skewl) will go crazy over this if we let it happen. Regardless of what he does, It will be a PR nightmare. We do not want developers holding technology hostage. We want developers proving themselves to be an added asset to the ecosystem, worth more than their delegate pay, and shareholders will vote accordingly.

Offline fluxer555

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Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2015, 10:48:45 PM »
On an unrelated note, unsticky this. Most people are used to ignoring everything stickied here, I almost didn't see this.

Offline bitsapphire

Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2015, 10:54:20 PM »
Aren't there at least to other light wallets in developement: Yunbi and Valentine? Why another one?

Yes. However we are using the copay signature transaction and building architecture as inspiration. The angular app does not build any transactions client side, it only receives already build transactions from the server and signes them.

We have had extensive experience with Bitcoin wallet architecture and transaction signing models from previous and current Bitsapphire startup clients. We have come to the conclusion that transactions should not be build in the client for two reasons:
  • Need to recreate transaction building code for every platform/language.
  • Multisig transactions and future contract transactions will need to be signed by more than 1 private key, as a result you either have p2p communication between clients (which is bad), or you have a central but optional server which reads the blockchain, builds transactions according to client needs, and then sends already build transactions to clients to simply sign. This way multiple clients can sign for example multisig transactions without the need to be online all at once for P2P communication. Furthermore transaction signing is considerably simpler than transaction building. This also means that the central server cannot fake your transaction or move your funds.

This way mobile wallet development should be a lot simpler. Furthermore, once BTS is Turing complete, there will be apps our there which want to communicate with BTS without having to download the full blockchain. Imagine your word processor just signing a transaction for notary services on BTS rather than downloading the whole blockchain.

Step 2 says "Sign up online or install the wallet on your PC". Does that mean moonstone will have a web wallet interface on top of a native client?

The native client will be a wrapped Angular app just like the current wallet. Therefore both the web and client wallet will be the same with the client wallet having some additional logic in the wrapper.
Register and get your personal Moonstone Wallet Beta here: https://moonstone.io/login-register.html

Online Bitcoinfan

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Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2015, 11:02:25 PM »
Are you considering adding Shapeshift API for BTC type wallet?

Offline bitsapphire

Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2015, 11:03:17 PM »
I will boycott and actively lobby against this wallet if there is a hardcoded-delegate version released as the official version.

Hardcoding delegates sets a very, very bad precedent. We do not want to walk down that road.

I actually agree with this sentiment. However, from this point on it would be a free market for Bitshares wallets. That means that people can choose which wallet they want to use, and they can choose which term of service they are ok with. Furthermore, the risk of donors not to get their money back would most likely be too great.

Not to mention that instead of asking for delegate money upfront we almost completely developed the wallet with our own money and then put forth the proposal to the community.
Register and get your personal Moonstone Wallet Beta here: https://moonstone.io/login-register.html

Offline robrigo

Re: Moonstone - New Bitsapphire Wallet: Fundraiser proposal
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2015, 11:03:54 PM »
Thanks for the answer. I also agree that hardcoding delegates that cannot have votes removed into the wallet sets a bad precedent and should not be done. Recommending delegates to vote for would be a much better option; the community was up in arms at the suggestion that core devs have their delegates "recommended" (i.e. automatically approved by default) but because your startup is funding its own operations I think it would be ok for you to do that on Moonstone.

I assume PeerTracks is going to use a custom moonstone wallet to handle all of the users funds. This is slightly off topic but have you made any progress on how users will go from their Credit Card to BitAssets (NoteAssets?) on the PeerTracks system? Is the music team / bitsapphire working on any on ramps or relying on those to be built?

 

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