How do we pay core developers competitively going forward?

[vegolino]

How about they "work" on making what they already have more valuable rather than trying to suck more out of a failing system. If they have to get real jobs and work on Bitshares in their spare time, so be it. Nobody has more to gain than the Dev team. The incentive is their, they just want to eat their cake too. The productivity of the group, as it seems now, is lacking.  The supposed 1.0 launch seems to be drifting further away the more developers are added to the project.  I have a feeling if 95% of the Dev team quit today! we would see 1.0 sooner than if they all stayed on board. Meanwhile price is on a downward spiral to its all time lows at the début of BTSX when market functionality was yet to be working or proved. Good job team!  Maybe you could add 70 more developers so this project can nose dive into the graveyard and everyone here can just get on with their lives next week.  Or maybe you could go back to St Marten and find that "Great White Buffalo", or the find the killer DAC that VOTE was supposed to be,  or muster up that fellow from down under who was going to bring the Philippine remittance market, or the promised USD to BTS gateways that were coming months ago, or the infomercial (which sounds refreshing in this bleak project at this time), or you could just make up some other bullshit promise. Jesus Christ, after writing that, I can't believe I and anyone else is still involved with this. Those promises are no different than the paycoin promises.

I stop reading your nonsense at statements like the above bolded.  I'm fairly certain there are stakeholders far larger than members of the devteam.

Your basic argument is always that the developers should give away their time for free and they are greedy for not doing it.

I'm sure you have interesting things to say, but it is so smothered in your manipulative bullshit I can't even breath.

Let's be honest, you definitely read my entire comment.

What exactly am I manipulating?  Should I call an ambulance for you?

Yes, I lied.  I did read the whole thing.  Lol.  Otherwise I wouldn't have gotten that manipulative vibe.

You reach into the bag for every failed idea/old problem to make everyone involved look bad.  You chastise the developers for not working for free. (LMAO)  You have to do this, because how else can you make the project look bad ?

Some points are relevant, some aren't.  Yet at the very end you try and act like you're a supporter, and poor you.  It is just that same ol bullshit that grizzled old souls can see through.

  I specially like last sentence 

[gamey]

Traders don't use the exchange because there is no leverage or margin to use... The lack of liquidity is also way too low for any real trader to use this.  Spreads are too big and the charts are much too basic to be of any use.

Look at MT4 as a base example of what a trader requires graphically... It's the most popular trading platform.

Once a lightweight client is created that supports the markets and is open sourced then we might have a chance at integrating into something like MT4.

Traders would in theory be attracted because of the lack of jurisdiction and governmental interference.

[lil_jay890]

Traders don't use the exchange because there is no leverage or margin to use... The lack of liquidity is also way too low for any real trader to use this.  Spreads are too big and the charts are much too basic to be of any use.

Look at MT4 as a base example of what a trader requires graphically... It's the most popular trading platform.

[inarizushi]

BitAssets work great. By itself, this is a news powerful enough to shatter the financial world. And yet we continue sinking along with the Bitcoin vessel.

We are supposed to provide one of the most efficient trading exchange (aren't we ?). How do we get the traders to trade on our decentralized exchange ? The exchange UI is full of little annoying things, like clicking on a price and getting another price slightly higher, asking for 1000 and getting 999.999, micro orders whose fee is higher than the amount bought, etc... Shouldn't we ask a panel of traders to test our exchange, and then tell us what they expect and what they need to use it ?

We have a working technology enabling decentralized trading. Would a very usable, sleek UI do the job ?

[liondani]

+ 5  for bitAsset bounty's

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH 997D

[julian1]

Devs are entitled to be paid. But any gain from having multiple delegate positions would simply be canceled out by falling price at the moment. We need to address the demand side.

[cass]

Oh and cass. ..I will l be sending you some funds for helping w the beyond bitcoin logo

Fuzzy nope pls don't do it! We talked about! I want to support all your great work you've done so far! Pls see this as supporting your work!

[fuzzy]

..

they will be payed higher than almost every other developer once the market cap gets bigger.
..

Provided they can survive with their pittance salary until it happens.  They are developers, not business investors nor sales/marketing folks.

IMO  that's the problem in many cases!

More than one delegate is the best way.  If that doesn't happen I'll gladly talk with the beyond bitcoin crew and marketing team about advertising the devs own projects from the beyond bitcoin site.  I think we should all in these tough times be doing everything we can to supper each others projects. Oh and cass. ..I will l be sending you some funds for helping w the beyond bitcoin logo.

[onceuponatime]

I for one find Newmine's frankness refreshing.

I disagree with him that delegate pay is dragging the project down. The price is going down simply because we havent given people an obvious reason why they should care about our product yet.

If I go to bitshares.org, it still does not show any charts of a BitUSD:BitBTC / whatever market with any depth. If people see something claiming to be a decentralized exchange, its just a bold claim - they want to see proof that people are actually exchanging stuff with it.

Why cant bitshares.org look like this: https://yunbi.com/markets/btccny

Unremitting negativity is a far cry from "frankness" in my opinion, and is counterproductive to adding value to bitshares. I have seen plenty of instances of Newmine badmouthing bitshares on other forums and here, but have never seen him lift a finger to contribute anything at all to our project.  Have you ever seen him volunteer to do anything to help? I have met his personality type in other projects I have worked on in my life, and consider them to be akin to a cancer.

[gamey]

How about they "work" on making what they already have more valuable rather than trying to suck more out of a failing system. If they have to get real jobs and work on Bitshares in their spare time, so be it. Nobody has more to gain than the Dev team. The incentive is their, they just want to eat their cake too. The productivity of the group, as it seems now, is lacking.  The supposed 1.0 launch seems to be drifting further away the more developers are added to the project.  I have a feeling if 95% of the Dev team quit today! we would see 1.0 sooner than if they all stayed on board. Meanwhile price is on a downward spiral to its all time lows at the début of BTSX when market functionality was yet to be working or proved. Good job team!  Maybe you could add 70 more developers so this project can nose dive into the graveyard and everyone here can just get on with their lives next week.  Or maybe you could go back to St Marten and find that "Great White Buffalo", or the find the killer DAC that VOTE was supposed to be,  or muster up that fellow from down under who was going to bring the Philippine remittance market, or the promised USD to BTS gateways that were coming months ago, or the infomercial (which sounds refreshing in this bleak project at this time), or you could just make up some other bullshit promise. Jesus Christ, after writing that, I can't believe I and anyone else is still involved with this. Those promises are no different than the paycoin promises.

Sorry to say but I think a lot of people feel this way.  He speaks for more than a few I suspect.  Most won't dare post it though.

You think that if 95% of the devs were to quit right now we'd see version 1.0 quicker?  Since there aren't even 20 devs, tell me who the magic wonderboy is that could finish it all up.

There are tons of critiques/criticisms.  Some are useful, some are hogwash.

[speedy]

If I go to bitshares.org, it still does not show any charts of a BitUSD:BitBTC / whatever market with any depth. If people see something claiming to be a decentralized exchange, its just a bold claim - they want to see proof that people are actually exchanging stuff with it.

Why cant bitshares.org look like this: https://yunbi.com/markets/btccny

i'm working on it!

Youre awesome Cass!

[GaltReport]

How about they "work" on making what they already have more valuable rather than trying to suck more out of a failing system. If they have to get real jobs and work on Bitshares in their spare time, so be it. Nobody has more to gain than the Dev team. The incentive is their, they just want to eat their cake too. The productivity of the group, as it seems now, is lacking.  The supposed 1.0 launch seems to be drifting further away the more developers are added to the project.  I have a feeling if 95% of the Dev team quit today! we would see 1.0 sooner than if they all stayed on board. Meanwhile price is on a downward spiral to its all time lows at the début of BTSX when market functionality was yet to be working or proved. Good job team!  Maybe you could add 70 more developers so this project can nose dive into the graveyard and everyone here can just get on with their lives next week.  Or maybe you could go back to St Marten and find that "Great White Buffalo", or the find the killer DAC that VOTE was supposed to be,  or muster up that fellow from down under who was going to bring the Philippine remittance market, or the promised USD to BTS gateways that were coming months ago, or the infomercial (which sounds refreshing in this bleak project at this time), or you could just make up some other bullshit promise. Jesus Christ, after writing that, I can't believe I and anyone else is still involved with this. Those promises are no different than the paycoin promises.

Sorry to say but I think a lot of people feel this way.  He speaks for more than a few I suspect.  Most won't dare post it though.

[gamey]

How about they "work" on making what they already have more valuable rather than trying to suck more out of a failing system. If they have to get real jobs and work on Bitshares in their spare time, so be it. Nobody has more to gain than the Dev team. The incentive is their, they just want to eat their cake too. The productivity of the group, as it seems now, is lacking.  The supposed 1.0 launch seems to be drifting further away the more developers are added to the project.  I have a feeling if 95% of the Dev team quit today! we would see 1.0 sooner than if they all stayed on board. Meanwhile price is on a downward spiral to its all time lows at the début of BTSX when market functionality was yet to be working or proved. Good job team!  Maybe you could add 70 more developers so this project can nose dive into the graveyard and everyone here can just get on with their lives next week.  Or maybe you could go back to St Marten and find that "Great White Buffalo", or the find the killer DAC that VOTE was supposed to be,  or muster up that fellow from down under who was going to bring the Philippine remittance market, or the promised USD to BTS gateways that were coming months ago, or the infomercial (which sounds refreshing in this bleak project at this time), or you could just make up some other bullshit promise. Jesus Christ, after writing that, I can't believe I and anyone else is still involved with this. Those promises are no different than the paycoin promises.

I stop reading your nonsense at statements like the above bolded.  I'm fairly certain there are stakeholders far larger than members of the devteam.

Your basic argument is always that the developers should give away their time for free and they are greedy for not doing it.

I'm sure you have interesting things to say, but it is so smothered in your manipulative bullshit I can't even breath.

Let's be honest, you definitely read my entire comment.

What exactly am I manipulating?  Should I call an ambulance for you?

Yes, I lied.  I did read the whole thing.  Lol.  Otherwise I wouldn't have gotten that manipulative vibe.

You reach into the bag for every failed idea/old problem to make everyone involved look bad.  You chastise the developers for not working for free. (LMAO)  You have to do this, because how else can you make the project look bad ?

Some points are relevant, some aren't.  Yet at the very end you try and act like you're a supporter, and poor you.  It is just that same ol bullshit that grizzled old souls can see through.

[nomoreheroes7]

I for one find Newmine's frankness refreshing.

Agreed.

I disagree with him that delegate pay is dragging the project down. The price is going down simply because we havent given people an obvious reason why they should care about our product yet.

If I go to bitshares.org, it still does not show any charts of a BitUSD:BitBTC / whatever market with any depth. If people see something claiming to be a decentralized exchange, its just a bold claim - they want to see proof that people are actually exchanging stuff with it.

Why cant bitshares.org look like this: https://yunbi.com/markets/btccny

Also agreed. 

[gamey]

Real and successful companies don't issue stock at first, they try to take on debt instead. Issuing stock while the market cap is this low is damaging to Bitshares. One way to do debt financing is through a similar setup to what we're proposing with our wallet.

I hope the community starts to understand the need for debt financing before the market cap drops even more. That would be a terrible pitty.

This post is so LOL on so many levels.

Not really.

You don't think that in the West startups have people commonly paid in stock in addition to a lower than normal salary?  How does a decentralized blockchain take on 'debt financing' from an external party?  Do you not think that VC's are given stock in a company for their investments?

What appears to be suggested is that somehow if only the community could understand, we could get an unsecured loan to solve all our problems !

I think that is LOL, but maybe I'm missing something because the community doesn't understand the problems as well as bitsapphire does.

It hasn't even been demonstrated that the issuing of new BTS by Delegate pay is causing a significant downward pressure...  for starters.

There are tons of issues, but if someone thinks that BTS can solve its price problems by having another crowdfunding ... to me it seems laughable. I suppose we could redirect bitasset yield into paying back people who loan us money?  Would that be the plan if the community understood?