Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares  (Read 722 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline asdfffff

Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« on: February 19, 2015, 09:59:06 AM »

I hope I'm on the right sub-board :)

I'm reading into BitShares right now and wonder if there are any gateways or exchanges to buy/sell stocks (NYSE, ASX, FTSE, DAX, ...) on the BitShares client?

Offline santaclause102

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2486
    • View Profile
Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2015, 01:49:05 PM »
I hope I'm on the right sub-board :)

I'm reading into BitShares right now and wonder if there are any gateways or exchanges to buy/sell stocks (NYSE, ASX, FTSE, DAX, ...) on the BitShares client?
Now yet.
If you mean stocks (shares in a company) then that is only possible if the company issues it's stock over the Bitshares platform which would be possible today (but not super practicable yet because fiat gateways are not there yet and the wallet should get a bit more user friendly.
If you mean indices that would be possible today with market pegged assets (see http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2014/12/18/What-are-BitShares-Market-Pegged-Assets/) if there are at least 52 price feeds for a specific index and some liquidity to trade.

Offline asdfffff

Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2015, 02:46:58 PM »
I hope I'm on the right sub-board :)

I'm reading into BitShares right now and wonder if there are any gateways or exchanges to buy/sell stocks (NYSE, ASX, FTSE, DAX, ...) on the BitShares client?
Now yet.
If you mean stocks (shares in a company) then that is only possible if the company issues it's stock over the Bitshares platform which would be possible today (but not super practicable yet because fiat gateways are not there yet and the wallet should get a bit more user friendly.
If you mean indices that would be possible today with market pegged assets (see http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2014/12/18/What-are-BitShares-Market-Pegged-Assets/) if there are at least 52 price feeds for a specific index and some liquidity to trade.

I thought about a gatway to stock exchanges, buying UIAs on BitShare would trigger an actual buy on the stock market. Selling the stock would trigger an immediate (or 10 sec delay) sell on the stock exchange.

As I understand it, the price of BitUSD ist just bound to the USD because people belive in it.

Offline donkeypong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2331
    • View Profile
Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2015, 04:01:52 PM »
What you suggest would require integration with the whole financial infrastructure, the payment of mega-fees to the companies that control those exchanges, and all kinds of government securities and financial licensing. If BitShares gets into stocks, it would be with BitAPPLE and BitNIKE, etc., a layer of play money that the market would use to track such securities. And in fact, anyone can create their own UIAs within BitShares right now.

Offline santaclause102

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2486
    • View Profile
Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2015, 04:25:53 PM »
I hope I'm on the right sub-board :)

I'm reading into BitShares right now and wonder if there are any gateways or exchanges to buy/sell stocks (NYSE, ASX, FTSE, DAX, ...) on the BitShares client?
Now yet.
If you mean stocks (shares in a company) then that is only possible if the company issues it's stock over the Bitshares platform which would be possible today (but not super practicable yet because fiat gateways are not there yet and the wallet should get a bit more user friendly.
If you mean indices that would be possible today with market pegged assets (see http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2014/12/18/What-are-BitShares-Market-Pegged-Assets/) if there are at least 52 price feeds for a specific index and some liquidity to trade.

I thought about a gatway to stock exchanges, buying UIAs on BitShare would trigger an actual buy on the stock market. Selling the stock would trigger an immediate (or 10 sec delay) sell on the stock exchange.

As I understand it, the price of BitUSD ist just bound to the USD because people belive in it.
No, the price feed is what ultimately makes sure that 1 BitUSD can be sold 1 USD. The article I linked above explains it nicely, there is a section about the price feed.

Such a stock exchange gateway would be possible. I'd say Bitshares would not have to get into any regulatory compliance procedure, just the gateway. Sounds like a nice idea and is definitely possible.

Are you familar with the difference between UIA and MPE?

Offline roadscape

Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2015, 05:34:51 PM »
As I understand it, the price of BitUSD ist just bound to the USD because people belive in it.

It's not faith, it's a profit motive. :)

Prediction markets seek the truth
http://cryptofresh.com  |  witness: roadscape

Offline asdfffff

Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2015, 06:04:36 PM »
What you suggest would require integration with the whole financial infrastructure, the payment of mega-fees to the companies that control those exchanges, and all kinds of government securities and financial licensing. If BitShares gets into stocks, it would be with BitAPPLE and BitNIKE, etc., a layer of play money that the market would use to track such securities. And in fact, anyone can create their own UIAs within BitShares right now.

Fees:
Just a matter of contracting.

Licensing:
Yes, you get me right, I'm talking about BitAPLE and BitNIKE and goverment bonds and so on. Licensing is a just a contracting thing.
Are you familiar with CFDs and Options (like Knock-Outs, ...)? This is just the same thing. Play money just like BTC, LTC, Dollar and Euro :(

UIAs:
You're right, I think this "problem" can be resolved by simply adding a way to filter UIAs by issuer. Stock-Exchange-Gateway-User = Issuer of BitAPPLE, BitNIKE, ...
Am I missing something about gateways?

Something I'm missing: I can't find any statistics about the turnover of BTS on the BitShares' network.

No, the price feed is what ultimately makes sure that 1 BitUSD can be sold 1 USD. The article I linked above explains it nicely, there is a section about the price feed.

Such a stock exchange gateway would be possible. I'd say Bitshares would not have to get into any regulatory compliance procedure, just the gateway. Sounds like a nice idea and is definitely possible.

Are you familar with the difference between UIA and MPE?
As I understand it it would only take a (or multiple? how many?) trusted delegate to "feed" the "price" of an external asset (such as NIKE) into the blockchain. And then the market pegged asset would come to "life". Doesn't understand the details yet, I'm just trying to get the big picture at the moment :)

I agree with you, the gateway would have to take care of licencing and banking regulations and deal with goverments(' financial departments).

An UIA is issued by a registered user, an MPE is the "price feed asset that magically comes to life". I hope I got it right :) I must say it's not quite easy reading ;)

It's not faith, it's a profit motive. :)

Prediction markets seek the truth
Well, I would've agreed with you 15 years ago. But that's another story and way off-topic.

Offline santaclause102

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2486
    • View Profile
Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2015, 07:20:02 PM »
Quote
An UIA is issued by a registered user, an MPE is the "price feed asset that magically comes to life". I hope I got it right :) I must say it's not quite easy reading
That's about right ;)
IUA = retains its value through collateral held by a the issuer. Collateral is 100% (normally). Collateral is held in Nike Inc. shares if the IUA represents Nike shares.
MPE = Collateral held by blockchain / the logic of the Bitshares software. Collateral is 200 - 300%. Collateral is always BTS for any MPE. Price feeds and 30 day maturity is what secure the peg.

Offline asdfffff

Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2015, 07:47:29 PM »
Quote
An UIA is issued by a registered user, an MPE is the "price feed asset that magically comes to life". I hope I got it right :) I must say it's not quite easy reading
That's about right ;)
IUA = retains its value through collateral held by a the issuer. Collateral is 100% (normally). Collateral is held in Nike Inc. shares if the IUA represents Nike shares.
MPE = Collateral held by blockchain / the logic of the Bitshares software. Collateral is 200 - 300%. Collateral is always BTS for any MPE. Price feeds and 30 day maturity is what secure the peg.

Okay, a (maybe not so) quick question arises:
How do you establish a new MPE?

I know how to create a UIA, after like 3 hours of search I know how delegates work (technically also) and how to set them up and feed them with "price feeds".

This really sounds interesting at this point.

Offline santaclause102

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2486
    • View Profile
Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2015, 08:09:21 PM »
Quote
An UIA is issued by a registered user, an MPE is the "price feed asset that magically comes to life". I hope I got it right :) I must say it's not quite easy reading
That's about right ;)
IUA = retains its value through collateral held by a the issuer. Collateral is 100% (normally). Collateral is held in Nike Inc. shares if the IUA represents Nike shares.
MPE = Collateral held by blockchain / the logic of the Bitshares software. Collateral is 200 - 300%. Collateral is always BTS for any MPE. Price feeds and 30 day maturity is what secure the peg.

Okay, a (maybe not so) quick question arises:
How do you establish a new MPE?

I know how to create a UIA, after like 3 hours of search I know how delegates work (technically also) and how to set them up and feed them with "price feeds".

This really sounds interesting at this point.
MPE can not be brought into existence by one person (an issuer). Like you said above it needs delegates (51) to publish a price feed for a MPE. Anyone can create a market pegged asset. But to open a market for it in the Bitshares client it needs at least 51 price feeds for that MPE. Check out http://bitsharesblocks.com/assets/market
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 08:32:28 PM by delulo »

Offline asdfffff

Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2015, 05:11:01 AM »
MPE can not be brought into existence by one person (an issuer). Like you said above it needs delegates (51) to publish a price feed for a MPE. Anyone can create a market pegged asset. But to bring open a market for it in the Bitshares client it needs at least 51 price feeds for that MPE. Check out http://bitsharesblocks.com/assets/market

Thank you for your great support!

So the only way to create MPEs is to write a price feed script and go begging existing delegates and hope that 51 respond with a "yes, will do". To be honest, this sucks. I think this goal is out of reach.

Maybe this is just a very naive question, but by 51 delegates? Wouldn't be 3 or 5 enough? This would bring way more dynamic MPEs into existence. As far as I am concerned it's hard enough to get even 1 delegate into the top 101.

/Edit:
Is there a restriction on how often the price feed gets updated? Is it possible to have a price update every block?
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 05:30:10 AM by asdfffff »

Offline jsidhu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1337
    • View Profile
Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2015, 06:27:50 AM »
You just have to convince delegates to update their scripts to publish the feed. I think you want the feeds about 20 times per min to be most effective..
Hired by blockchain | Developer
delegate: dev.sidhujag

Offline asdfffff

Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2015, 07:02:54 AM »
You just have to convince delegates to update their scripts to publish the feed. I think you want the feeds about 20 times per min to be most effective..

From my point of view it's unrealistic to get in touch with all the delegates, there are no contact informations anywhere.

5 seconds interval is a good start - thank you for your advice!

Offline santaclause102

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2486
    • View Profile
Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2015, 02:32:21 PM »
You just have to convince delegates to update their scripts to publish the feed. I think you want the feeds about 20 times per min to be most effective..

From my point of view it's unrealistic to get in touch with all the delegates, there are no contact informations anywhere.

No need to get in touch with everyone. The forum is there to publish messages all delegates can read. More specifically on the delegate board: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?board=61.0
The process would be: Form a community / shareholder agreement (make a proposal for your MPE on the forum in English and Chinese) that your MPE is good for Bitshares / Bitshares' shareholders, for example because there is demand for trading it -> volume and demand for BTS -> increase in BTS price. If your proposal / arguments are good -> then shareholders will pressure delegates to add the respective price feed.

Having only a handful of delegates necessary that publish price feeds for a MPE would make it easier to manipulate the price feed and therefore the market...

I am positive that as the whole Bitshares ecosystem matures and market cap grows (more monetary incentives for everyone involved: delegates will be companis / individuals who provide a professional service in the sense that they do noting but that) such processes will get more streamlined.

Bitshares (the software and the entrepreneurial ecosystem) is still maturing. For now the 51 delegates requirement is suitable because we first have to grow a few essential MPE. If software and trader awareness is more mature then I could imagine different types of MPE. One type with 51 price feeds (high security) and one with only 5 price feeds (security warning; traders have to trust those delegates more; but still less than trusting today's centralized trading platforms).
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 02:40:27 PM by delulo »

Offline jsidhu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1337
    • View Profile
Re: Buy/Sell Stocks with BitShares
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2015, 11:46:51 PM »
You just have to convince delegates to update their scripts to publish the feed. I think you want the feeds about 20 times per min to be most effective..

From my point of view it's unrealistic to get in touch with all the delegates, there are no contact informations anywhere.

5 seconds interval is a good start - thank you for your advice!

With bitshares mail it becomes easy to communicate with others... aslong as others are willing to communicate.. delegates should be open to communicate (their mailboxes open)... this may also lead to a social community type of interface where your profile/social identity is revealed based upon your descretion. I can see it becoming a sort of facebook via blockchain... we already have the social login we just need to add the profile data to the accounts ledger and then we would need to complete the mail system so we can effectively communicate and post messages for anyone to read... or target groups to read.

60/20 = ~3 seconds
Hired by blockchain | Developer
delegate: dev.sidhujag

 

Google+