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Offline konelectric

FCC-Net Neutrality.
« on: February 27, 2015, 05:39:47 PM »

What do you think will happen to the cryptocurrency market if the FCC gets their 'net neutrality' past and make the internet a' public utility'?
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Offline luckybit

Re: FCC-Net Neutrality.
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2015, 02:25:24 AM »
It's good. The one way that they could have destroyed the decentralization revolution has been defeated. Without network neutrality what is to stop ISPs from charging people double for using Bitshares?  ISP's would have been able to tax people who use certain apps or who go to certain websites. Also they could slow certain people down for running certain apps or for going to certain websites.

This would put ISPs into a position to govern speech. I don't like the FCC governing speech online either but the FCC isn't as bad as what big corporations can do. Just look at the RIAA and compare that situation to whatever the FCC does and you'll see that almost no one gets fined by the FCC but the RIAA will sue even fans.

Overall it's either good news or will have no impact.
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Offline Xeldal

Re: FCC-Net Neutrality.
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2015, 02:37:52 AM »
It's good. The one way that they could have destroyed the decentralization revolution has been defeated. Without network neutrality what is to stop ISPs from charging people double for using Bitshares?  ISP's would have been able to tax people who use certain apps or who go to certain websites. Also they could slow certain people down for running certain apps or for going to certain websites.

This would put ISPs into a position to govern speech. I don't like the FCC governing speech online either but the FCC isn't as bad as what big corporations can do. Just look at the RIAA and compare that situation to whatever the FCC does and you'll see that almost no one gets fined by the FCC but the RIAA will sue even fans.

Overall it's either good news or will have no impact.

The FCC and other federal organizations are essentially run by big corporations just perhaps different ones.   Its an unfortunate circumstance we find ourselves in, corpratocracy either way.   Like so many other government problems, a decentralized internet may be our only way out.

Quote
Without network neutrality what is to stop ISPs from charging people double for using Bitshares?  ISP's would have been able to tax people who use certain apps or who go to certain websites. Also they could slow certain people down for running certain apps or for going to certain websites.
I believe its worse to give all those same decisions to a single government dictator.  The FCC can in a blanket statement require all ISPs to do the same things.  we don't have much choice now as far as ISPs but we essentially have fewer choices with net neutrality.

(i havn't kept up with net neutrality and don't know details)

Offline luckybit

Re: FCC-Net Neutrality.
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2015, 02:41:35 AM »
It's good. The one way that they could have destroyed the decentralization revolution has been defeated. Without network neutrality what is to stop ISPs from charging people double for using Bitshares?  ISP's would have been able to tax people who use certain apps or who go to certain websites. Also they could slow certain people down for running certain apps or for going to certain websites.

This would put ISPs into a position to govern speech. I don't like the FCC governing speech online either but the FCC isn't as bad as what big corporations can do. Just look at the RIAA and compare that situation to whatever the FCC does and you'll see that almost no one gets fined by the FCC but the RIAA will sue even fans.

Overall it's either good news or will have no impact.

The FCC and other federal organizations are essentially run by big corporations just perhaps different ones.   Its an unfortunate circumstance we find ourselves in, corpratocracy either way.   Like so many other government problems, a decentralized internet may be our only way out.

Quote
Without network neutrality what is to stop ISPs from charging people double for using Bitshares?  ISP's would have been able to tax people who use certain apps or who go to certain websites. Also they could slow certain people down for running certain apps or for going to certain websites.
I believe its worse to give all those same decisions to a single government dictator.  The FCC can in a blanket statement require all ISPs to do the same things.  we don't have much choice now as far as ISPs but we essentially have fewer choices with net neutrality.

(i havn't kept up with net neutrality and don't know details)

The FCC is localized to only the USA. Those corporations and ISPs can be multi-national. Do not not see how that is much worse for free speech?

An ISP not located in the USA could violate the FCC on behalf of US customers. If the ISPs themselves become government of the Internet then there would be no escape from it except to build a meshnet and they'd prevent that too by simply making it illegal to sell your bandwidth.

When you think about the situation globally then having the government check the ISPs is better than to have the ISPs alone with no FCC and ability to filter our speech according to profitability. Just think about Paypal blocking certain transactions and now think about an ISP doing the same for certain downloads of certain applications.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 02:43:08 AM by luckybit »
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Offline Xeldal

Re: FCC-Net Neutrality.
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2015, 02:57:00 AM »

The FCC is localized to only the USA. Those corporations and ISPs can be multi-national. Do not not see how that is much worse for free speech?

An ISP not located in the USA could violate the FCC on behalf of US customers. If the ISPs themselves become government of the Internet then there would be no escape from it except to build a meshnet and they'd prevent that too by simply making it illegal to sell your bandwidth.

When you think about the situation globally then having the government check the ISPs is better than to have the ISPs alone with no FCC and ability to filter our speech according to profitability. Just think about Paypal blocking certain transactions and now think about an ISP doing the same for certain downloads of certain applications.
An ISP who is regulating free speech, given a free market, which I don't believe we have, the ISP would lose its customers and go out of business.  The ISPs that survive will be the ones that offer the best service.  The best service will come from the most efficient , profitable business model.   The FCC does not know best how to run a company, how to make money, stay in business, and provide the best service.   They are a heavy coercive hand in the gears of free men.   Its now illegal to run a profitable business. (hyperbole)

Alot of my argument relies on a free market.  Where honest competition can arise.  We don't have this, so we likely won't see the necessary competition to oust the poor service providers.   

Offline merivercap

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Re: FCC-Net Neutrality.
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2015, 02:58:55 AM »
I haven't followed this closely, but anytime the government gets more power that is not a good thing.  The Internet is one of the biggest threats to government control, propaganda and power so naturally governments want to find a way to control it and it wouldn't surprise me at all that Net Neutrality is just part of a broader agenda to do that.  What shocks me is how one-sided the debate has been.  Next thing you know we'll have the Digital Currency Freedom Act that will protect people from hackers, scammers, child porn, and terrorists with a 50% tax on DACs and new coins so they can create a new Department of Internet Security and a new Internet czar.  ::) Anyways... I'll go back to Bitshares and more positive thoughts now.... :)
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Offline luckybit

Re: FCC-Net Neutrality.
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2015, 04:10:49 AM »
ISPs aren't in a free market though. That is the whole point. We get none of the benefits of a free market with all of the worst features of it. In that case it's better to have the FCC when the ISP is a monopoly and the ultimate gatekeeper to the Internet is an ISP.

What if the NSA or some other actually is able to influence the decisions of the only ISP in your community? I find it funny that people think a single ISP in control of the whole Internet for some people is worse than the FCC. The FCC never did any deep packet inspection and isn't acting like China with the great firewall.  I don't think our FCC is actually that bad with the Internet so far and while this could someday change it's not like we have a free market anyway so what freedom do you expect to get by empowering the ISPs?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 04:12:50 AM by luckybit »
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Offline luckybit

Re: FCC-Net Neutrality.
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2015, 04:14:20 AM »
I haven't followed this closely, but anytime the government gets more power that is not a good thing.  The Internet is one of the biggest threats to government control, propaganda and power so naturally governments want to find a way to control it and it wouldn't surprise me at all that Net Neutrality is just part of a broader agenda to do that.  What shocks me is how one-sided the debate has been.  Next thing you know we'll have the Digital Currency Freedom Act that will protect people from hackers, scammers, child porn, and terrorists with a 50% tax on DACs and new coins so they can create a new Department of Internet Security and a new Internet czar.  ::) Anyways... I'll go back to Bitshares and more positive thoughts now.... :)

The US government created the Internet and Tor. Yes the same government that hates the Internet created it. Yes the same government that hates Tor created Tor. Yes the same government that fears freedom helped to create the freedom it fears. It's always been like this in America.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/f-c-c-moves-to-free-up-community-broadband-services/?_r=0
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Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: FCC-Net Neutrality.
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2015, 04:23:55 AM »
I haven't followed this closely, but anytime the government gets more power that is not a good thing.  The Internet is one of the biggest threats to government control, propaganda and power so naturally governments want to find a way to control it and it wouldn't surprise me at all that Net Neutrality is just part of a broader agenda to do that.  What shocks me is how one-sided the debate has been.  Next thing you know we'll have the Digital Currency Freedom Act that will protect people from hackers, scammers, child porn, and terrorists with a 50% tax on DACs and new coins so they can create a new Department of Internet Security and a new Internet czar.  ::) Anyways... I'll go back to Bitshares and more positive thoughts now.... :)

The US government created the Internet and Tor. Yes the same government that hates the Internet created it. Yes the same government that hates Tor created Tor. Yes the same government that fears freedom helped to create the freedom it fears. It's always been like this in America.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/f-c-c-moves-to-free-up-community-broadband-services/?_r=0

Indeed.  The tricky part of that is figuring out when it's incompetence, when it's a honeypot, and when it's the balance of power actually still working somewhat.

Offline merivercap

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Re: FCC-Net Neutrality.
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2015, 05:12:51 AM »
I haven't followed this closely, but anytime the government gets more power that is not a good thing.  The Internet is one of the biggest threats to government control, propaganda and power so naturally governments want to find a way to control it and it wouldn't surprise me at all that Net Neutrality is just part of a broader agenda to do that.  What shocks me is how one-sided the debate has been.  Next thing you know we'll have the Digital Currency Freedom Act that will protect people from hackers, scammers, child porn, and terrorists with a 50% tax on DACs and new coins so they can create a new Department of Internet Security and a new Internet czar.  ::) Anyways... I'll go back to Bitshares and more positive thoughts now.... :)

The US government created the Internet and Tor. Yes the same government that hates the Internet created it. Yes the same government that hates Tor created Tor. Yes the same government that fears freedom helped to create the freedom it fears. It's always been like this in America.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/f-c-c-moves-to-free-up-community-broadband-services/?_r=0

I thought Al Gore created the Internet? ;)

See that's also part of government propaganda ... those in governments and who advocate for government institutions try to take ownership of any technology or innovation that individuals create to promote government institutions.  The Internet we see today is a whole series of innovations that may have used some basic technologies that came out of government/military institutions but that's a far cry from saying government created the Internet. 

Furthermore governments don't create anything.  They only tax redistribute (or some would say steal) from one group to another. 
Who will build the roads?  Governments don't build roads.  Private construction companies and crews build roads. 
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Offline fuzzy

Re: FCC-Net Neutrality.
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2015, 06:33:03 AM »
I haven't followed this closely, but anytime the government gets more power that is not a good thing.  The Internet is one of the biggest threats to government control, propaganda and power so naturally governments want to find a way to control it and it wouldn't surprise me at all that Net Neutrality is just part of a broader agenda to do that.  What shocks me is how one-sided the debate has been.  Next thing you know we'll have the Digital Currency Freedom Act that will protect people from hackers, scammers, child porn, and terrorists with a 50% tax on DACs and new coins so they can create a new Department of Internet Security and a new Internet czar.  ::) Anyways... I'll go back to Bitshares and more positive thoughts now.... :)

The US government created the Internet and Tor. Yes the same government that hates the Internet created it. Yes the same government that hates Tor created Tor. Yes the same government that fears freedom helped to create the freedom it fears. It's always been like this in America.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/f-c-c-moves-to-free-up-community-broadband-services/?_r=0

I thought Al Gore created the Internet? ;)

See that's also part of government propaganda ... those in governments and who advocate for government institutions try to take ownership of any technology or innovation that individuals create to promote government institutions.  The Internet we see today is a whole series of innovations that may have used some basic technologies that came out of government/military institutions but that's a far cry from saying government created the Internet. 

Furthermore governments don't create anything.  They only tax redistribute (or some would say steal) from one group to another. 
Who will build the roads?  Governments don't build roads.  Private construction companies and crews build roads.

Isn't it interesting that all these technologies start out being created by gov alphabet agencies, then they are opened up to the free market to allow innovation. Then big money comes in and takes control over the top technologies...making their inventors party of the new guard.   And finally regulates it so they can use all that innovation to control people?

Makes one wonder even more... "who,  exactly, was Satoshi Nakamoto?"
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 06:34:38 AM by fuzzy »
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Offline BunkerChain Labs

Re: FCC-Net Neutrality.
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2015, 07:00:54 AM »
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Offline triox

Re: FCC-Net Neutrality.
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2015, 11:17:46 AM »
I'm not in U.S. so I don't give a crap about the topic, but this seems like an opinion that makes sense:

PCMAG: The Net Neutrality Hysteria

Offline vlight

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Re: FCC-Net Neutrality.
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2015, 08:24:38 PM »
I'm not in U.S. so I don't give a crap about the topic, but this seems like an opinion that makes sense:

PCMAG: The Net Neutrality Hysteria
Agreed.

imho internet never was 'neutral' and that's why it was so great up until now.

Offline konelectric

« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 01:13:40 AM by konelectric »
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