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Offline bitsapphire

Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2015, 09:26:38 PM »
Gateway to gateway transfers would make a lot more sense for simple remittances. Using bitAssets only makes sense if you want to hold your value in a decentralized bank.
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Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2015, 09:32:04 PM »
That requires trust between the two gateways, and the sender trusting both of them.

Using bitAssets for remittance the only trust needed is that the gateway not cheat you while you're physically standing there face to face.

Offline clayop

Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2015, 09:41:07 PM »
That requires trust between the two gateways, and the sender trusting both of them.

Using bitAssets for remittance the only trust needed is that the gateway not cheat you while you're physically standing there face to face.

In this case, liquidity will be the problem. You cannot send $10k to Canada because there is only $76 amount of CAD on BTS network. So gateway to gateway is preferred in spite of trust needed.
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Offline Xeldal

Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2015, 09:59:35 PM »
I think this could be big, and a great fit for bAssets.  Its essentially a localbitcoins app but the middle step of USD > BTC > USD , has been automated and removed from view essentially.  USD to USD transfer anywhere with a 3 day guarantee on price.  Every smart phone is now a gateway.  I like it.   Its an easy fit for bAssets as well, to extend that 3 day guarantee indefinitely,  then it becomes more of a local wallet, for all currencies.  and noone would even know it was bAssets that make it work.  ..... but then, why have bitcoin at all in that case, you won't need it. 
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 11:30:00 PM by Xeldal »

Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2015, 11:23:36 PM »
That requires trust between the two gateways, and the sender trusting both of them.

Using bitAssets for remittance the only trust needed is that the gateway not cheat you while you're physically standing there face to face.

In this case, liquidity will be the problem. You cannot send $10k to Canada because there is only $76 amount of CAD on BTS network. So gateway to gateway is preferred in spite of trust needed.

I think if there was sufficient demand for it the supply of bitCAD would increase to meet that demand.  I think small gateways like the localbitcoins or ABRA teller model would be best served by trading direct to market pegged assets with a fee/spread, because they're unlikely to have sufficient reputation to run a trusted UIA, and also unlikely to have partners at the destination.  Major fiat exchanges like Coinbase would be better served by issuing a gateway UIA for CoinbaseUSD and such.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2015, 11:39:56 PM »
Wouldn't BitUSD / BitAssets beat Abra with the following model: I buy BitUSD at a gateway/teller for USD, then exchange those on the Bitshares DEX for BitPeso, then send BitPeso to my cousin in Mexiko who can sell his BitPeso for Peso.
This involves less less counterparty risk. With Abra tellers could do fractional reserve banking or run away with customer money. Not so with the Bitshares model because you BUY BitUSD from an exchange and SELL it to him instead of having an IOU pushed around on the Abra network. And with Bitshares you dont have to cash out at a gateway because finally stores might accept BitUSD too ;)

Offline merivercap

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Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2015, 11:41:20 PM »
 +5% +5% +5% +5% +5%

This is big, and I think bitShares is a better fit. 

The backend is Bitcoin and I think when you're recruiting tellers it requires knowledge about Bitcoin:  https://medium.com/first-round-insiders/abra-innovation-in-remittance-b011d6a66ef6
The growth of tellers may be limited somewhat because they would have to know and understand Bitcoin. (I think it's just a Bitcoin wallet with hedging features. I'd have to find out the exact details.)   However, it may also just be widely adopted by Bitcoin users in general and used in place of localBitcoins.  Remittance would just be an extension of that.  It says Abra can guarantee home currency value for '72hrs'....Anyways I think this may be the next big VC-backed Bitcoin company (after Coinbase/Bitpay).  Great to hear. 

I was hoping to recruit a team to build a mobile wallet app designed so that the user would not even know what Bitcoin/BTS was but would learn to use bitUSD (or bitEuro/bitGold/bitCNY) etc.  The geolocation feature to find local money exchangers would be a huge additional feature.  It's really the best way to decentralize the gateway function for mass adoption.  Let me know if anyone is interested in working on something like this. 

Overall I think this opportunity is huge. 
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Offline santaclause102

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Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2015, 11:43:48 PM »
Gateway to gateway transfers would make a lot more sense for simple remittances. Using bitAssets only makes sense if you want to hold your value in a decentralized bank.
BitAsset do make sense here because they allow everyone to become a gateway since "only trust needed is that the gateway not cheat you while you're physically standing there face to face".

Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2015, 11:44:55 PM »
Wouldn't BitUSD / BitAssets beat Abra with the following model: I buy BitUSD at a gateway/teller for USD, then exchange those on the Bitshares DEX for BitPeso, then send BitPeso to my cousin in Mexiko who can sell his BitPeso for Peso.
This involves less less counterparty risk. With Abra tellers could do fractional reserve banking or run away with customer money. Not so with the Bitshares model because you BUY BitUSD from an exchange and SELL it to him instead of having an IOU pushed around on the Abra network. And with Bitshares you dont have to cash out at a gateway because finally stores might accept BitUSD too ;)

Yes.  I think this is a significant improvement on what I see of the ABRA model.  Is anyone in contact with the ABRA people?  Making it powered by BitShares would certainly save them a lot of trouble.  :P

Offline santaclause102

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Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2015, 11:57:48 PM »
Wouldn't BitUSD / BitAssets beat Abra with the following model: I buy BitUSD at a gateway/teller for USD, then exchange those on the Bitshares DEX for BitPeso, then send BitPeso to my cousin in Mexiko who can sell his BitPeso for Peso.
This involves less less counterparty risk. With Abra tellers could do fractional reserve banking or run away with customer money. Not so with the Bitshares model because you BUY BitUSD from an exchange and SELL it to him instead of having an IOU pushed around on the Abra network. And with Bitshares you dont have to cash out at a gateway because finally stores might accept BitUSD too ;)

Yes.  I think this is a significant improvement on what I see of the ABRA model.  Is anyone in contact with the ABRA people?  Making it powered by BitShares would certainly save them a lot of trouble.  :P
I am exited about this because it would provide tremendous benefits to millions of people with little addition to the existing Bitshares infrastructure.
Let's brainstorm a bit about what is needed to make this work (at best all in one app):
- A reputation system for tellers/gateways. Would Bitshares DNS/reputation system be worth waiting for?
- Mobile wallet
- What else???

I am pretty sure Bytemaster has tought about all this already :) He definitely mentioned a few times that he would like to see a localbitcoins for Bitshares. 

Also paging Matt608 and his Latino crew. They must have thought about this :)

Offline bitsapphire

Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2015, 12:06:07 AM »
That requires trust between the two gateways, and the sender trusting both of them.

Using bitAssets for remittance the only trust needed is that the gateway not cheat you while you're physically standing there face to face.

Not necessarily. You have IOU USD on Gateway 1 but want to send funds to Gateway 2 for cashout in another country. For the other person to even get out of the Gateway 2 he needs to be signed up with Gateway 2 first. In this scenario bitUSD could be used as a better ripple-like XRP (more stable). This would provide incredible liquidity to bitUSD and as a result greater stability and more reason to hold (probably a better yield too).

However, what the gateway providers really want isn't a counterparty-less token as a middlemen for reduction of their own risk profile, they rather want a way to create a risk contract directly between the two gateways. Think of it as a CFD between two gateway IOUs. Banks already to this though the interbank lending market and Credit Swaps. Such a crypto contract would be a lot cheaper overall, but not liquid enough because it would be a A-to-B contract rather than an A-to-N and N-to-B contract (e.g. Credit is time delayed split barter. Money is counterparty-less credit).

In this regard, what Bitshares really needs isn't just more gateways, but adding automatic pathfinding just like ripple, whereas the main high liquidity and non-counterparty token would be the bitUSD.

Interestingly enough, the bitUSD yield to be expected in such a setup would be capped by the market as a function of the total perceived counterparty risk of the gateways + the network cost of providing liquidity among sufficient pairs of the gateways.
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Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2015, 12:08:57 AM »
Wouldn't BitUSD / BitAssets beat Abra with the following model: I buy BitUSD at a gateway/teller for USD, then exchange those on the Bitshares DEX for BitPeso, then send BitPeso to my cousin in Mexiko who can sell his BitPeso for Peso.
This involves less less counterparty risk. With Abra tellers could do fractional reserve banking or run away with customer money. Not so with the Bitshares model because you BUY BitUSD from an exchange and SELL it to him instead of having an IOU pushed around on the Abra network. And with Bitshares you dont have to cash out at a gateway because finally stores might accept BitUSD too ;)

Yes.  I think this is a significant improvement on what I see of the ABRA model.  Is anyone in contact with the ABRA people?  Making it powered by BitShares would certainly save them a lot of trouble.  :P
I am exited about this because it would provide tremendous benefits to millions of people with little addition to the existing Bitshares infrastructure.
Let's brainstorm a bit about what is needed to make this work (at best all in one app):
- A reputation system for tellers/gateways. Would Bitshares DNS/reputation system be worth waiting for?
- Mobile wallet
- What else???

I am pretty sure Bytemaster has tought about all this already :) He definitely mentioned a few times that he would like to see a localbitcoins for Bitshares. 

Also paging Matt608 and his Latino crew. They must have thought about this :)

This is an exciting and very valuable use case, but it's also a pretty basic one, and one that I think has been intended from very early on.  The biggest technical requirement is an easy to use mobile wallet.  Reputation management would be handy, but people buy things from each other all the time and just manage reputation the old fashioned way...

Offline xiahui135

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Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2015, 12:11:26 AM »
this article does not mention bitshares. Maybe they are using btc to do the remittence because it has more liquidity.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: ABRA combined with Bitassets and it Is the end for banks forever!
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2015, 12:14:58 AM »
Wouldn't BitUSD / BitAssets beat Abra with the following model: I buy BitUSD at a gateway/teller for USD, then exchange those on the Bitshares DEX for BitPeso, then send BitPeso to my cousin in Mexiko who can sell his BitPeso for Peso.
This involves less less counterparty risk. With Abra tellers could do fractional reserve banking or run away with customer money. Not so with the Bitshares model because you BUY BitUSD from an exchange and SELL it to him instead of having an IOU pushed around on the Abra network. And with Bitshares you dont have to cash out at a gateway because finally stores might accept BitUSD too ;)

Yes.  I think this is a significant improvement on what I see of the ABRA model.  Is anyone in contact with the ABRA people?  Making it powered by BitShares would certainly save them a lot of trouble.  :P
I am exited about this because it would provide tremendous benefits to millions of people with little addition to the existing Bitshares infrastructure.
Let's brainstorm a bit about what is needed to make this work (at best all in one app):
- A reputation system for tellers/gateways. Would Bitshares DNS/reputation system be worth waiting for?
- Mobile wallet
- What else???

I am pretty sure Bytemaster has tought about all this already :) He definitely mentioned a few times that he would like to see a localbitcoins for Bitshares. 

Also paging Matt608 and his Latino crew. They must have thought about this :)

This is an exciting and very valuable use case, but it's also a pretty basic one, and one that I think has been intended from very early on.  The biggest technical requirement is an easy to use mobile wallet.  Reputation management would be handy, but people buy things from each other all the time and just manage reputation the old fashioned way...
Sure it would mainly be a marketing effort to package everything into one app and popularize it. I would say that a built  in reputation system would be necessary as long as BitAssets is not widely adopted and everyone buys and sells it.

 

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