what should we do if price is control by exchange??

[mf-tzo]

you should consider buy some xrp, it has transparent history for whole transaction. 8)

XRP has also a nice history of huge dumping...I remember buying XRPs last year at $0.025 just to see them dropping to $0.0035...Been there done that..What prevents the initial shareholders of doing this dump all over again? Last time I have checked Jef still hasn't dumped all his XRPs but he still intends to do so..

Of course when XRP goes to $0.001 I might reconsider buying some XRPs. Alternatively, if there was some kind of cooperation between BTS and XRP and create some fiat gateways via XRP to accept BitUSD then I will definitely buy a lot of XRPs irrespective of price :)

[btswildpig]

you should consider buy some xrp, it has transparent history for whole transaction. 8)

I don't have money to buy some , but can you give me some free sample ? like 2000 XRP maybe ?
I like to see if it's as good as advertised .  :P :P

[cube]

you should consider buy some xrp, it has transparent history for whole transaction. 8)

Id rather jump off bridge

That is a good one. :)

@XRP_support, stop selling your xrp here.

[jsidhu]

you should consider buy some xrp, it has transparent history for whole transaction. 8)

Id rather jump off bridge

[btswildpig]

you should consider buy some xrp, it has transparent history for whole transaction. 8)

It doesn't matter if Gateway issue IOUs that's not backed by the actual fiat they own .

[XRP_support]

you should consider buy some xrp, it has transparent history for whole transaction. 8)

[jsidhu]

I personally do not believe the price of BTS is what it is due to BTC38 price manipulation (as in selling more BTS than they have). That being said what alt is saying makes a lot of sense and everybody should do it.

Take your not-for-trading BTS out of BTC38 (and all other exchanges for that matter)!

- If BTC38  has 10%+ of all BTS - It is indeed too high. Nobody should keep her BTS on the exchange unless for trading or to sell them to pay bills/exit his position. And if you decide to trade on BTC38, it should take a minute for the BTS to be moved there.(Believe me I know it usually takes a deposit and support ticket for the funds to be credited, but this should be fixed by the exchange as well)
For that reason alone - move your BTS out of BTC38.

- If BTC38  does not have 10% of all BTS, but it claims it does:
   - move your BTS out of BTC38. You do not want to be the last one holding BTS IOU's there, when everybody else has withdrawn their BTS from BTC38 and the exchange has nothing but empty promise to give you, do you?
    - buy BTS with any funds (BTC, CNY etc.) that you have on the exchange, if such funds are there to buy BTS in short/medium term. And withdraw the new BTS from the exchange. In other words, if alt suspicion is true, the price of BTS should and (will be) much higher as a result of removing the downward manipulation, so buy now (cheap) and move the funds to more secure location (your wallet).



In short - move your BTS out of centralized exchanges. This will be very bullish (increasing the BTS price) in the short term anyway. What is more interesting - if alt's worries are true this will be good for the BTS price, in the long term as well.

If it's true, you should buy BTS but not sell.
because exchange need to buy back BTS to pay debt.

This.

If this is true, we can shortsqueeze the hell out of btc38 by buying and withdrawing BTS. 

They will be forced to buy tons of shares at market in order to balance their books, and it will rocket up the price. 

+5% interesting they would sell bts of the users without their notification.. or there is an internal trading group that simply pools funds via btc38 and they manipulate the market down (we've seen this after bytemaster post about changing bitshares structure and introducing delegate payouts via inflation).. this seemed to tick some of them off so maybe this is what they are doing.. however if we all trade internally it will allow us to all achieve what we want to do!

[svk]

So from the voting mishap we know they control at least 150 million I guess? Now another issue is them voting with those 150 million, they removed some votes but not all..

[sudo]

I personally do not believe the price of BTS is what it is due to BTC38 price manipulation (as in selling more BTS than they have). That being said what alt is saying makes a lot of sense and everybody should do it.

Take your not-for-trading BTS out of BTC38 (and all other exchanges for that matter)!

- If BTC38  has 10%+ of all BTS - It is indeed too high. Nobody should keep her BTS on the exchange unless for trading or to sell them to pay bills/exit his position. And if you decide to trade on BTC38, it should take a minute for the BTS to be moved there.(Believe me I know it usually takes a deposit and support ticket for the funds to be credited, but this should be fixed by the exchange as well)
For that reason alone - move your BTS out of BTC38.

- If BTC38  does not have 10% of all BTS, but it claims it does:
   - move your BTS out of BTC38. You do not want to be the last one holding BTS IOU's there, when everybody else has withdrawn their BTS from BTC38 and the exchange has nothing but empty promise to give you, do you?
    - buy BTS with any funds (BTC, CNY etc.) that you have on the exchange, if such funds are there to buy BTS in short/medium term. And withdraw the new BTS from the exchange. In other words, if alt suspicion is true, the price of BTS should and (will be) much higher as a result of removing the downward manipulation, so buy now (cheap) and move the funds to more secure location (your wallet).



In short - move your BTS out of centralized exchanges. This will be very bullish (increasing the BTS price) in the short term anyway. What is more interesting - if alt's worries are true this will be good for the BTS price, in the long term as well.

If it's true, you should buy BTS but not sell.
because exchange need to buy back BTS to pay debt.

This.

If this is true, we can shortsqueeze the hell out of btc38 by buying and withdrawing BTS. 

They will be forced to buy tons of shares at market in order to balance their books, and it will rocket up the price. 

+5%

[Ander]

Removed the rest of mine from btc38.

[btswildpig]

If anyone is gonna buy BitShares , make sure you really buy BitShares instead of "symbol of bitshares" .

[chryspano]

So they have 157 million in cold wallet.  Some more in hot wallet (but not 100M).

Hmmm...

Do we know how many bts they have in the hot wallet?

If I understood correctly from the above posts, we can be 100% sure that they only have 157M bts in their cold wallet.

[alt]

you are right, buy bts,withdraw bts. there are still 100milillon bts not available.

what shuld we do to protect wallet market if it's true?

来自我的 HUAWEI P7-L00 上的 Tapatalk

[nomoreheroes7]

Paycoin is ahead of us again.

lol...

Wow, it's on big volume too. Have you heard any news/press release?

I've been watching it. Apparently they're opening "beta invites" for their new storefront coinstand that will take your XPY for $20 toward any purchase you want, up to $1,000.

Apparently people still believe this BS. lol.

...aaand we're back to #4. All is right again in the world. That was fast.

[onceuponatime]

Paycoin is ahead of us again.

lol...

Wow, it's on big volume too. Have you heard any news/press release?

[Tuck Fheman]

if an exchanges chooses to manipulate its market so be it

can you please point us to the centralized exchange that doesn't?

[Ander]

Paycoin is ahead of us again.

lol...

[infovortice2013]

its a lot of bts... but comparing with total 2.5k milions is ridiculous


im going out all exchanges, finish trading until v1.0 wallet is finished, the downtrend and i think are bots market makers not left make good trading to little ones

[Ander]

So they have 157 million in cold wallet.  Some more in hot wallet (but not 100M).

Hmmm...

[vikram]

btc38 have used a new public account to save cold balance: btc38-public-for-bts-cold
there is only 40 million BTS at this address, btc38 say they have transfer 150 million BTS, but the balance should be  250 million as they said.

Code Select Expand


default (unlocked) >>> blockchain_get_account_public_balance btc38-public-for-bts-cold
[[
    "btc38-public-for-bts-cold",[[
        0,
        4500000000000
      ]
    ]
  ]
]


This command might not give correct result with current version: https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues/1420

When running experimental version with this command fixed, I get:

Code Select Expand


(wallet closed) >>> blockchain_get_account_public_balance btc38-public-for-bts-cold
[[
    0,
    15744921862348
  ]
]


[zerosum]

I personally do not believe the price of BTS is what it is due to BTC38 price manipulation (as in selling more BTS than they have). That being said what alt is saying makes a lot of sense and everybody should do it.

Take your not-for-trading BTS out of BTC38 (and all other exchanges for that matter)!

- If BTC38  has 10%+ of all BTS - It is indeed too high. Nobody should keep her BTS on the exchange unless for trading or to sell them to pay bills/exit his position. And if you decide to trade on BTC38, it should take a minute for the BTS to be moved there.(Believe me I know it usually takes a deposit and support ticket for the funds to be credited, but this should be fixed by the exchange as well)
For that reason alone - move your BTS out of BTC38.

- If BTC38  does not have 10% of all BTS, but it claims it does:
   - move your BTS out of BTC38. You do not want to be the last one holding BTS IOU's there, when everybody else has withdrawn their BTS from BTC38 and the exchange has nothing but empty promise to give you, do you?
    - buy BTS with any funds (BTC, CNY etc.) that you have on the exchange, if such funds are there to buy BTS in short/medium term. And withdraw the new BTS from the exchange. In other words, if alt suspicion is true, the price of BTS should and (will be) much higher as a result of removing the downward manipulation, so buy now (cheap) and move the funds to more secure location (your wallet).



In short - move your BTS out of centralized exchanges. This will be very bullish (increasing the BTS price) in the short term anyway. What is more interesting - if alt's worries are true this will be good for the BTS price, in the long term as well.

If it's true, you should buy BTS but not sell.
because exchange need to buy back BTS to pay debt.

This.

If this is true, we can shortsqueeze the hell out of btc38 by buying and withdrawing BTS. 

They will be forced to buy tons of shares at market in order to balance their books, and it will rocket up the price. 

[vikram]

btc38 have used a new public account to save cold balance: btc38-public-for-bts-cold
there is only 40 million BTS at this address, btc38 say they have transfer 150 million BTS, but the balance should be  250 million as they said.

Code Select Expand


default (unlocked) >>> blockchain_get_account_public_balance btc38-public-for-bts-cold
[[
    "btc38-public-for-bts-cold",[[
        0,
        4500000000000
      ]
    ]
  ]
]


This command might not give correct result with current version: https://github.com/BitShares/bitshares/issues/1420

[Ander]

I dont believe we should remove btc38 from price feeds.  The price that it is being traded at is the actual price that people are paying.  What we should do is withdraw all bts.

[Ander]

If it's true, you should buy BTS but not sell.
because exchange need to buy back BTS to pay debt.

This.

If this is true, we can shortsqueeze the hell out of btc38 by buying and withdrawing BTS. 

They will be forced to buy tons of shares at market in order to balance their books, and it will rocket up the price. 

[Gentso1]

If it's true, you should buy BTS but not sell.
because exchange need to buy back BTS to pay debt.
this is good thing if we can prepare.
exchange can broke, but not BTS.
and we still waiting BTC38 to prove their 250 million BTS balance.

I didn't have enough to break the bank but my bts withdraw went through fine.

[alt]

BTC38 promised that they'll disclose the cold storage address of their Bitcoin holding back in 26th,FEB, but now is March ,  some people are suspecting the reasons , so I wonder if BitShares will have the same situation . I'm just assuming the worst in a technical standing point of view . Maybe they're just slow in action though .

来自我的 HUAWEI P7-L00 上的 Tapatalk

[alt]

If it's true, you should buy BTS but not sell.
because exchange need to buy back BTS to pay debt.
this is good thing if we can prepare.
exchange can broke, but not BTS.
and we still waiting BTC38 to prove their 250 million BTS balance.

[emski]

Sorry, maybe it's not a good time to say too much right now.

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure you've already said too much. Vague/panic-inducing statements are a lot worse than straight-up facts.

Yes! Such accusations should be kept private until sufficient evidence is available.
This induces panic and is detrimental to the BTS as a whole.

@alt are you saying BTC38 do not possess all the funds they claim to have?
Are you saying that BTC38 falsifies trades?
What exactly is your claim?

[nomoreheroes7]

Sorry, maybe it's not a good time to say too much right now.

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure you've already said too much. Vague/panic-inducing statements are a lot worse than straight-up facts.

[alt]

Sorry, maybe it's not a good time to say too much right now.
be prepared to face bad situation if you trust me
we must  come up with a solution

for now, just exclude the exchange is not enough, because the price will spread to other exchange.
BTC38 is the most big exchange.

Big or not - if it manipulates data it should be ignored.

However I dont think there is enough evidence for manipulation yet.

As the largest exchange for bts, BTC38 does have the trading volume to influence buyers from other exchanges to take its bts price as 'most accepted price'.  We need to alert users to avoid BTC38 if we have sufficient evidence.

@alt, are you able to produce evidence?

[NewMine]

Delegates should react and ignore malicious exchange's feeds.

Are you implying delegate to ignore BTC38's feeds?

Indeed. I'm surprised to see alt scaremongering like this, maybe its justified but we can't really tell for now, and it feels like adding fuel to the fire of falling BTS prices..

We do not have the information that the Chinese (alt in particular) have.  Let's give him the benefit of doubt (till things clear up) and do not classify him as 'scaremongering'.

That's funny because weren't the Chinese the ones complaining about The English speaking people having all the information and 'scaremongering'?

Pretty sure Alt was involved with a lot of the discovery of potential attacks on BTSX before launch. Could this be a real attack he is attempting.  I only say because he has posted multiple posts about different things this week in attempt to scare people. The post about shorting and now the btc38 posts. And all the posts did not describe his true message in the tittle but rather sensationalized his fear instead.

[cube]

for now, just exclude the exchange is not enough, because the price will spread to other exchange.
BTC38 is the most big exchange.

Big or not - if it manipulates data it should be ignored.

However I dont think there is enough evidence for manipulation yet.

As the largest exchange for bts, BTC38 does have the trading volume to influence buyers from other exchanges to take its bts price as 'most accepted price'.  We need to alert users to avoid BTC38 if we have sufficient evidence.

@alt, are you able to produce evidence?

[emski]

for now, just exclude the exchange is not enough, because the price will spread to other exchange.
BTC38 is the most big exchange.

Big or not - if it manipulates data it should be ignored.

However I dont think there is enough evidence for manipulation yet.

[alt]

for now, just exclude the exchange is not enough, because the price will spread to other exchange.
BTC38 is the most big exchange.

IMHO the correct reaction would be to withdraw all BTS from btc38 and trade on yunbi instead ..

Its all in the hand of the individuals .. I am not sure if tempering with price feeds is the correct reaction .. if an exchanges chooses to manipulate its market so be it .. let them damage THEIR reputation ..

If we start tempering with feeds at will we risk OUR reputation!!

Tampering with feeds is called delegate's policy. Delegates can announce their feed sources and scripts/configuration. This is verifiable. If you see an exchange misbehaving you would like to exclude it from the feed.

[alt]

that's the most good result.
I have plan to build a fiat gateway name BOTSCNY, but I am afraid it's not so quickly.

Unfortunately the people who daytrade on the centralized exchange will be screwed which is why we don't need to be using the centralized exchanges for that.

We dont need to use centralised exchanges at all... Only fiat->BTS gateway. Everything else can be traded on the BTS blockchain.

[alt]

yes, I hope this can happen quickly.
but if yunbi is not ready so quickly, we need to have a plan to protect BTS wallet market

IMHO the correct reaction would be to withdraw all BTS from btc38 and trade on yunbi instead ..

Its all in the hand of the individuals .. I am not sure if tempering with price feeds is the correct reaction .. if an exchanges chooses to manipulate its market so be it .. let them damage THEIR reputation ..

If we start tempering with feeds at will we risk OUR reputation!!

[emski]

IMHO the correct reaction would be to withdraw all BTS from btc38 and trade on yunbi instead ..

Its all in the hand of the individuals .. I am not sure if tempering with price feeds is the correct reaction .. if an exchanges chooses to manipulate its market so be it .. let them damage THEIR reputation ..

If we start tempering with feeds at will we risk OUR reputation!!

Tampering with feeds is called delegate's policy. Delegates can announce their feed sources and scripts/configuration. This is verifiable. If you see an exchange misbehaving you would like to exclude it from the feed.

[alt]

btc38 have used a new public account to save cold balance: btc38-public-for-bts-cold
there is only 40 million BTS at this address, btc38 say they have transfer 150 million BTS, but the balance should be  250 million as they said.

Code Select Expand


default (unlocked) >>> blockchain_get_account_public_balance btc38-public-for-bts-cold
[[
    "btc38-public-for-bts-cold",[[
        0,
        4500000000000
      ]
    ]
  ]
]


[emski]

Unfortunately the people who daytrade on the centralized exchange will be screwed which is why we don't need to be using the centralized exchanges for that.

We dont need to use centralised exchanges at all... Only fiat->BTS gateway. Everything else can be traded on the BTS blockchain.

[xeroc]

IMHO the correct reaction would be to withdraw all BTS from btc38 and trade on yunbi instead ..

Its all in the hand of the individuals .. I am not sure if tempering with price feeds is the correct reaction .. if an exchanges chooses to manipulate its market so be it .. let them damage THEIR reputation ..

If we start tempering with feeds at will we risk OUR reputation!!

[luckybit]

btc38 still not prove they have enough balance, we need to be ready to face some bad situation

If you're "not saying anything for sure", why are you being so alarmist?

What we can do to prepare ourselves for the worst is buy BitUSD, BitGLD or something similar.

Fortunately Bitshares is a fairly adaptive design for it's time. It's not like Bitcoin where we'd all be screwed over something like this. Unfortunately the people who daytrade on the centralized exchange will be screwed which is why we don't need to be using the centralized exchanges for that.

[emski]

Delegates should react and ignore malicious exchange's feeds.

Are you implying delegate to ignore BTC38's feeds?

if a delegate believes BTC38 falsifies feeds then that delegate should take action.

I'm not saying that BTC38 are doing anything wrong.

[luckybit]

This is very important!
I'm not saying anything for sure.
But let us discuss some technical measures in case unreal price happen in the centralized exchange that lead to a malfunction price feed

what will we do, if BTC38 sell fake BTS, and control the price?
should we pause feed price?
@Bytemaster

This is why it wasn't a good idea to let the delegates centralize. Bytemaster? What is your plan?

[btswildpig]

btc38 still not prove they have enough balance, we need to be ready to face some bad situation

If you're "not saying anything for sure", why are you being so alarmist?

Do exchanges normally prove they have enough balance on hand of any asset they're holding? Why should we expect them to prove it for BTS?

It sounds like all of this is a bunch of unneeded panic over a rumor. These situations need to be considered by the devs, but until it's obvious this is what's going on there's no need to stir up the community.

I'd imagine a large portion of this rumor is being driven by those with buy orders around the 0.05 CNY level. Apparently it's working.

most exchanges in China proved the fiat , bitcoin , ltc ..... they hold .
yunbi update their real holding on a daily basis .

[cube]

Delegates should react and ignore malicious exchange's feeds.

Are you implying delegate to ignore BTC38's feeds?

Indeed. I'm surprised to see alt scaremongering like this, maybe its justified but we can't really tell for now, and it feels like adding fuel to the fire of falling BTS prices..

We do not have the information that the Chinese (alt in particular) have.  Let's give him the benefit of doubt (till things clear up) and do not classify him as 'scaremongering'.

[svk]

btc38 still not prove they have enough balance, we need to be ready to face some bad situation

If you're "not saying anything for sure", why are you being so alarmist?

Do exchanges normally prove they have enough balance on hand of any asset they're holding? Why should we expect them to prove it for BTS?

It sounds like all of this is a bunch of unneeded panic over a rumor. These situations need to be considered by the devs, but until it's obvious this is what's going on there's no need to stir up the community.

Indeed. I'm surprised to see alt scaremongering like this, maybe its justified but we can't really tell for now, and it feels like adding fuel to the fire of falling BTS prices..

[emski]

Delegates should react and ignore malicious exchange's feeds.

[nomoreheroes7]

btc38 still not prove they have enough balance, we need to be ready to face some bad situation

If you're "not saying anything for sure", why are you being so alarmist?

Do exchanges normally prove they have enough balance on hand of any asset they're holding? Why should we expect them to prove it for BTS?

It sounds like all of this is a bunch of unneeded panic over a rumor. These situations need to be considered by the devs, but until it's obvious this is what's going on there's no need to stir up the community.

I'd imagine a large portion of this rumor is being driven by those with buy orders around the 0.05 CNY level. Apparently it's working.

[btswildpig]

If you're "not saying anything for sure", why are you being so alarmist?

security should be enforced even at a peaceful time .

[alt]

btc38 still not prove they have enough balance, we need to be ready to face some bad situation

If you're "not saying anything for sure", why are you being so alarmist?

[nomoreheroes7]

If you're "not saying anything for sure", why are you being so alarmist?

[alt]

This is very important!
I'm not saying anything for sure.
But let us discuss some technical measures in case unreal price happen in the centralized exchange that lead to a malfunction price feed

what will we do, if BTC38 sell fake BTS, and control the price?
should we pause feed price?
@Bytemaster

BTC38 promised that they'll disclose the cold storage address of their Bitcoin holding back in 26th,FEB, but now is March ,  some people are suspecting the reasons , so I wonder if BitShares will have the same situation . I'm just assuming the worst in a technical standing point of view . Maybe they're just slow in action though .