Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Not everyone is selling at a loss  (Read 1105 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Volker

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
  • BTS: Volker
Not everyone is selling at a loss
« on: March 26, 2015, 11:31:46 AM »


Offline Volker

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
  • BTS: Volker
Re: Not everyone is selling at a loss
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2015, 11:33:56 AM »
Some people argue that this must be the bottom because "everyone is selling at a loss." My point is that not everyone is selling at a loss.

Offline Frodo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
  • BTS: frodo
Re: Not everyone is selling at a loss
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2015, 02:29:30 PM »
Dilution is massively overrated by most people. Mostly irrational fear. Let's look at the numbers for a second here:

Current annualized inflation is about 1.451%. At a market cap of 16 million that amounts to ~ $232k worth of BTS each year. That's merely ~ $636 daily. (Assuming that every delegate immediately sells all BTS.)

Now let's take a look at cmc. Currently we have 24h volume of over $40k. And that is on the low side, we often have $100k+. At $40k daily volume about 1.59% of volume could be caused by delegates selling off BTS. At $100k volume just 0.636%.


I hope people stop blaming dilution and the merger for everything that isn't going according to plan.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Not everyone is selling at a loss
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2015, 02:37:57 PM »
Dilution is massively overrated by most people. Mostly irrational fear. Let's look at the numbers for a second here:

Current annualized inflation is about 1.451%. At a market cap of 16 million that amounts to ~ $232k worth of BTS each year. That's merely ~ $636 daily. (Assuming that every delegate immediately sells all BTS.)

Now let's take a look at cmc. Currently we have 24h volume of over $40k. And that is on the low side, we often have $100k+. At $40k daily volume about 1.59% of volume could be caused by delegates selling off BTS. At $100k volume just 0.636%.


I hope people stop blaming dilution and the merger for everything that isn't going according to plan.
+1
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Not everyone is selling at a loss
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2015, 03:00:11 PM »
Dilution is massively overrated by most people. Mostly irrational fear. Let's look at the numbers for a second here:

Current annualized inflation is about 1.451%. At a market cap of 16 million that amounts to ~ $232k worth of BTS each year. That's merely ~ $636 daily. (Assuming that every delegate immediately sells all BTS.)

Now let's take a look at cmc. Currently we have 24h volume of over $40k. And that is on the low side, we often have $100k+. At $40k daily volume about 1.59% of volume could be caused by delegates selling off BTS. At $100k volume just 0.636%.


I hope people stop blaming dilution and the merger for everything that isn't going according to plan.
+1

As far as dilution...it barely registers as dilution and most all of it is going to "pay" people who could make far more if they simply stepped away from the project and chose to another job over

As for the merger...I still think it was a mistake.  There really is no reason I can see why the separate chains could not have competed, built up their own separate dev teams using their delegate slots to build onto the broader ecosystem in a way that lifts all boats. 

Just having 5 DACs that are powered by BitShares in the top 20 on Coinmarketcap would have been huge advertising.  And there would have been nothing (to my knowledge) that would have kept BitSharesX from later on hiring devs to implement DNS and Vote features into its structure just like BitShares currently has done.  In fact, by the time BitSharesX had matured to that level, DNS and Vote would have already done most of the hard work, so implementing the code on other chains would have likely required far less in terms of time, energy and manpower.  Alternatively, the same could be said for Vote, DNS, and a number of other chains.  Just ask BitShares PLAY and PTS...I know for a fact that they saved a good bit of time incorporating the main BitShares chains' work. 

The merger was a case of making a decision without really getting the feedback from the community before doing so.  I had reservations, but held them back at the time because I didn't want to make things worse.  More and more though I find myself realizing that the community keeping relatively silent about these types of decisions has caused more harm than good.  I suspect that if the PR initiative goes the wrong direction, the merger decision will not be our last headache. 

However, even with those hiccups...BitShares and the ecosystem that is growing from it (of course, with a few growing pains) is still a beautiful thing.   
BROWNIE==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits Welcome to  the Sharing Economy w/ BeyondBitcoin.org Partners--ShareBits.io & OpenLedger.info
TIP FORMAT: #sharebits "ForumHandleInQuotes" Quanity Token_Name

Offline Frodo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 330
    • View Profile
  • BTS: frodo
Re: Not everyone is selling at a loss
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2015, 03:20:27 PM »
Dilution is massively overrated by most people. Mostly irrational fear. Let's look at the numbers for a second here:

Current annualized inflation is about 1.451%. At a market cap of 16 million that amounts to ~ $232k worth of BTS each year. That's merely ~ $636 daily. (Assuming that every delegate immediately sells all BTS.)

Now let's take a look at cmc. Currently we have 24h volume of over $40k. And that is on the low side, we often have $100k+. At $40k daily volume about 1.59% of volume could be caused by delegates selling off BTS. At $100k volume just 0.636%.


I hope people stop blaming dilution and the merger for everything that isn't going according to plan.
+1

As far as dilution...it barely registers as dilution and most all of it is going to "pay" people who could make far more if they simply stepped away from the project and chose to another job over

As for the merger...I still think it was a mistake.  There really is no reason I can see why the separate chains could not have competed, built up their own separate dev teams using their delegate slots to build onto the broader ecosystem in a way that lifts all boats. 

Just having 5 DACs that are powered by BitShares in the top 20 on Coinmarketcap would have been huge advertising.  And there would have been nothing (to my knowledge) that would have kept BitSharesX from later on hiring devs to implement DNS and Vote features into its structure just like BitShares currently has done.  In fact, by the time BitSharesX had matured to that level, DNS and Vote would have already done most of the hard work, so implementing the code on other chains would have likely required far less in terms of time, energy and manpower.  Alternatively, the same could be said for Vote, DNS, and a number of other chains.  Just ask BitShares PLAY and PTS...I know for a fact that they saved a good bit of time incorporating the main BitShares chains' work. 

The merger was a case of making a decision without really getting the feedback from the community before doing so.  I had reservations, but held them back at the time because I didn't want to make things worse.  More and more though I find myself realizing that the community keeping relatively silent about these types of decisions has caused more harm than good.  I suspect that if the PR initiative goes the wrong direction, the merger decision will not be our last headache. 

However, even with those hiccups...BitShares and the ecosystem that is growing from it (of course, with a few growing pains) is still a beautiful thing.   

I'm not trying to argue that the merger was absolutely necessary. But I still think that the implications of it are widely overestimated. It has advantages and disadvantages but imo both ways have the potential to bring us to our goal.

This has all been extensively discussed. My point is just that its influence on the project is probably overrated, just like the dilution.

Offline maqifrnswa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
Re: Not everyone is selling at a loss
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2015, 03:36:07 PM »
These folks aren't:

http://bitsharesblocks.com/delegates

Piling on... on top of dilution being on the order of 1% of the total volume, a 3% delegate is making ~$20 a month (barely enough for a VPS) and 100% delegates (who are supposed to be full-time developers) are making $700-800 a month.

So yes, when you include the time invested, they are probably also selling at a loss
maintains an Ubuntu PPA: https://launchpad.net/~showard314/+archive/ubuntu/bitshares [15% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval maqifrnswa true [50% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval delegate1.maqifrnswa true

Offline btswildpig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1406
    • View Profile
Re: Not everyone is selling at a loss
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2015, 03:51:04 PM »
No one says if you have profit you must sell .
No one says if you lost money , you can't sell .

In the end ..... you can't predict who is selling and who is not .
Maybe a guy who earned 10X profit won't sell , and a guy who lost 90% of his investment still sells .
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline oldman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 543
    • View Profile
Re: Not everyone is selling at a loss
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2015, 04:27:20 PM »
These folks aren't:

http://bitsharesblocks.com/delegates

Piling on... on top of dilution being on the order of 1% of the total volume, a 3% delegate is making ~$20 a month (barely enough for a VPS) and 100% delegates (who are supposed to be full-time developers) are making $700-800 a month.

So yes, when you include the time invested, they are probably also selling at a loss

Has anyone looked into outsourcing some of the bull work to freelancers in Vietnam/Phil/SE Asia?

$700/month can rent some surprising talent in those areas - opendesk etc.

Not sure if this is worth pursuing but it's a thought.

Offline Volker

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
  • BTS: Volker
Re: Not everyone is selling at a loss
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2015, 04:30:40 PM »
Very good responses in this thread. Dilution is not the problem. But I'm a bit disappointed to hear that it's not the problem.

1) If dilution were the problem, it could be easily fixed.

2) If oversupply is not the problem, that means that demand is the issue.

3) Lack of demand means a failure to attract investment and use of bitAssets.

4) Cryptocurrency in general is in a long-term bear market. However, Bitcoin, Ripple, Darkcoin, and others have moved up and away from their 6 month lows. In some cases they are double or nearly double their 6 month lows. Therefore BTS, is performing significantly worse than its peers, even with organized, self-funded marketing and development delegates.

In your opinions, is this just an amazing buying opportunity?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 04:46:46 PM by Volker »

Offline testz

Re: Not everyone is selling at a loss
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2015, 04:43:21 PM »
...
$700/month can rent some surprising talent in those areas - opendesk etc.

Not sure if this is worth pursuing but it's a thought.

Yes, at $700/month ($17,5/hour) you can rent some surprising talent at opendesk for one week, and will wait 3 weeks for next rent?

Offline Volker

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 62
    • View Profile
  • BTS: Volker
Re: Not everyone is selling at a loss
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2015, 04:50:16 PM »
These folks aren't:

http://bitsharesblocks.com/delegates

Piling on... on top of dilution being on the order of 1% of the total volume, a 3% delegate is making ~$20 a month (barely enough for a VPS) and 100% delegates (who are supposed to be full-time developers) are making $700-800 a month.

So yes, when you include the time invested, they are probably also selling at a loss

Has anyone looked into outsourcing some of the bull work to freelancers in Vietnam/Phil/SE Asia?

$700/month can rent some surprising talent in those areas - opendesk etc.

Not sure if this is worth pursuing but it's a thought.

You won't find serious development talent in Asia for 800 per month. They flock to Shanghai, HK, Tokyo. $800 per month is a joke salary for an experienced developer, even in Shenzhen. So BTS is probably best off hiring diehard BTS supporters (as it is).

Offline Ander

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3499
    • View Profile
  • BTS: Ander
Re: Not everyone is selling at a loss
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2015, 05:25:48 PM »
Any paid delegate who is selling put in work to get those shares, at a below market rate for their services.  So in a way they are also selling at a loss. 
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline bytemaster

Re: Not everyone is selling at a loss
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2015, 05:35:02 PM »
Some people mined at valuations lower than the current one and are still profitable.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

 

Google+