Author Topic: Bitshares is bleeding for a long time, should not we do something ?  (Read 9146 times)

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Offline BTSdac

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oh!My God,I want to kill my dog,Long without food.Because of the investment BTS

In CryptoCoin News today a Chinese investor was arrested for killing and eating his dog.  He told the police he had no choice.  He had to do it because he lost everything investing in Bitshares.
it is joke  not  ture
github.com :pureland
BTS2.0 API :ws://139.196.37.179:8091
BTS2.0 API 数据源ws://139.196.37.179:8091

Offline JA

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oh!My God,I want to kill my dog,Long without food.Because of the investment BTS

In CryptoCoin News today a Chinese investor was arrested for killing and eating his dog.  He told the police he had no choice.  He had to do it because he lost everything investing in Bitshares.
BitDogfood  :) +5%

My Dog already loves it.

jaran

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oh!My God,I want to kill my dog,Long without food.Because of the investment BTS

In CryptoCoin News today a Chinese investor was arrested for killing and eating his dog.  He told the police he had no choice.  He had to do it because he lost everything investing in Bitshares.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 03:51:56 pm by jran »

Offline mdj

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Price totally matters. The core feature, the Assets, rely on price for their creation. Nobody is going to create bitUSD, aka short it into existence if they are going to lose money to do it. Then they are forced to cover within 30 days even if their long term outlook is bullish on BTS.

The system is setup for a slow death. Alienating the people who want to create assets does not help the livelihood of BTS.

Partially true and I agree downward BTS pressure makes people less likely to want to short assets into existence. However, for every seller there is a buyer and you could always buy your own short if it's just the asset without the exposure you were after.

Offline alt

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合并出的新BTS,持有者都是有成本的,根本不算增发。
你们想多了

要救BTS就想办法做更多法币通道,培养更多交易平台,不要让BTC38一家独大

Offline wuyanren

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oh!My God,I want to kill my dog,Long without food.Because of the investment BTS
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 03:38:19 pm by wuyanren »

Offline Empirical1.2

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Holy shit.... now i understand the whole disaster....

800k BTS every day? This price drop won't stop anytime soon and 1k prices are soon to be expected. All those theories about solving the problem are illusional.

Yeah, I believe it's around 800k

Does anyone know how much of the merger allocation is being claimed on average?

There's up to 650k merger BTS being released a day in addition to the up to 100k via delegate dilution which is a significant amount relative to the average BTS buy walls which could be having an impact on BTS sustaining it's price at this stage. http://www.btc38.com/trade_en.html?btc38_trade_coin_name=bts

 129,427.20    currant daily new BTS  from delegates
  694,444.44    daily from superDAC merger
  823,871.64    total New BTS daily

How much is claimed daily is not so significant as they can be claimed the next day and the next... so the safe assumption is "upto 823K BTS must be bought on average, each and every day...for the next about 20mo."

[edit] I think buying about 1/3 of the above amount (on average) is what we need to keep the price from going down.

But only some people are selling their merger allocation, so it's a lot less than 800k everyday but probably still enough to have an impact. 
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline NewMine

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What's sad is that the marketing department is dead again (at the exception of Max)... we have to find new users

Are you kidding me? Did you even read the last NullStreet update? Did you even see the trifolder handout that was put out just last week?

Probably not kidding. If you want to get new users, you have to do more than a trifold handout! That handout had zero impact on me and I expect most others. Sure it's useful but it's trivial. Sometimes it isn't about working hard but working smart. Go where the money is and make sure they know what is unique about BitShares.

If you want to get new users, you need focus that others can leverage. Let other people do the work for you.. because they want to and because you've made it easy for them to pass the message on. One place that hammers home the *unique* points about BitShares.. plaster that over the top of the forum, so there is no doubt. More of the same detail, people do not need. Keep pushing that single source of information, until it is ubiquitous.. until everyone is bored to death with it. Currently BitShares appears too complex and there are too many directions to push in.

Make buying bitUSD snappy and default in the clients, expecting that people will want that about everything else... or look to leveraging the DEX and make that the single point.. push for people to burn their LTC into BTS instead.

Community matters.. pay attention to reddit/r/bitshares and beyond.

Frankly I think the mistake could be that there's too much focus on the price, at a time when the price should not matter. Get the product working and the client fast and snappy, then sell it hard and wonder about how the price is rising.

Ye olde blitzkrieg tactic works in marketing too.. all push one point hard and the effect is more than otherwise possible. Imagine if we all spent a week in Bitcointalk instead of navel gazing.. I expect there are better ideas than that too.

Price totally matters. The core feature, the Assets, rely on price for their creation. Nobody is going to create bitUSD, aka short it into existence if they are going to lose money to do it. Then they are forced to cover within 30 days even if their long term outlook is bullish on BTS.

The system is setup for a slow death. Alienating the people who want to create assets does not help the livelihood of BTS.

Offline Marky0001

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Holy shit.... now i understand the whole disaster....

800k BTS every day? This price drop won't stop anytime soon and 1k prices are soon to be expected. All those theories about solving the problem are illusional.

Offline NewMine

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What's sad is that the marketing department is dead again (at the exception of Max)... we have to find new users

Are you kidding me? Did you even read the last NullStreet update? Did you even see the trifolder handout that was put out just last week?

Shame on him for not seeing your marketing efforts.

That's your problem.

Offline yellowecho


BTS is a decentralized trade system, but is the most centralized digital coin.
the price is totally controlled by BTC38, this is the biggest problem.
to resolved this, we need more fiat gateway, and more trade site.
Getting BTS on other exchanges would also help with this but it's my understanding that they're waiting for 1.0 so they don't have to do continuous updates.. is that true?


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696c6f766562726f776e696573

Offline alt

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BTS is a decentralized trade system, but is the most centralized digital coin.
the price is totally controlled by BTC38, this is the biggest problem.
to resolved this, we need more fiat gateway, and more trade site.

Offline mdj

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What's sad is that the marketing department is dead again (at the exception of Max)... we have to find new users

Are you kidding me? Did you even read the last NullStreet update? Did you even see the trifolder handout that was put out just last week?

Probably not kidding. If you want to get new users, you have to do more than a trifold handout! That handout had zero impact on me and I expect most others. Sure it's useful but it's trivial. Sometimes it isn't about working hard but working smart. Go where the money is and make sure they know what is unique about BitShares.

If you want to get new users, you need focus that others can leverage. Let other people do the work for you.. because they want to and because you've made it easy for them to pass the message on. One place that hammers home the *unique* points about BitShares.. plaster that over the top of the forum, so there is no doubt. More of the same detail, people do not need. Keep pushing that single source of information, until it is ubiquitous.. until everyone is bored to death with it. Currently BitShares appears too complex and there are too many directions to push in.

Make buying bitUSD snappy and default in the clients, expecting that people will want that about everything else... or look to leveraging the DEX and make that the single point.. push for people to burn their LTC into BTS instead.

Community matters.. pay attention to reddit/r/bitshares and beyond.

Frankly I think the mistake could be that there's too much focus on the price, at a time when the price should not matter. Get the product working and the client fast and snappy, then sell it hard and wonder about how the price is rising.

Ye olde blitzkrieg tactic works in marketing too.. all push one point hard and the effect is more than otherwise possible. Imagine if we all spent a week in Bitcointalk instead of navel gazing.. I expect there are better ideas than that too.

 +5% Very nicely put.

Offline carpet ride

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BTS can still become a currency, it just needs to soak up the world's value through bitassets first.


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Offline Empirical1.2

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Dilution + The Merger is releasing up to 800 000 BTS per day onto the market. Looking at the buy walls on BTC38, it’s possible that could be having some impact on the price.

My personal view is the following…

When viewed purely as a form of money, BTSX was the strongest on the market, even if you didn’t understand BitAssets. Despite the sometimes abrasive personalities of key actors, it was very easy to develop network effect and build a supportive community because it was very hard to argue that any other offering was superior.  (No inflation, profitable, best blockchain, most effective decentralisation, money in the bank to get to 1.0 and the best developers.) As a result a lot of our popularity, growth and valuation was derived purely from the fact that we could be a crypto-currency that challenges Bitcoin. 

The new BTS has variable dilution decided by shareholders and an expensive merger to pay for. ‘Decided by shareholders’ is great for a company but never popular as a form of money. As a result we’ve lost a lot of our popularity, growth and BTC Challenger (As a widely adopted money) value. You can view BTS as a money, just the nature of DPOS, variable dilution and the merger to pay for make it one of the weakest on the market from that perspective. The new BTS is now viewed as a crypto-company exactly as Stan recently described.

BitShares is a profitable company that produces smart-currencies as its products. Products that are better in every way with none of the drawbacks you mention.  There is no inflation in BitAssets at all (relative to their underlying peg) and the underlying BTS can produce those stable currency products whether is gaining or falling in value.  BTS is not intended to be a currency itself, so a tiny amount of dilution has zero affect on the value proposition of its smart currency products.

This new company BTS is valued very much the same way a BitReserve would be valued & you can see they’re solely interested in their BitAsset growth and metrics.  https://changemoney.org

If you track our BitAsset growth month over month there is very little. So our valuation is fair considering our product is not selling.

So BTS is in a position where it will trend to zero if the product doesn’t sell whereas as crypto-currencies have values independent of that and they can choose to add a BitAsset this year if they wish.

Also people didn’t like the way the merger was handled. Personally I feel ‘Vote’ was presented as a threat because it was more competitive. But I never felt it was more competitive, the market valued it at <$1 Million at snapshot time, the product was not popular and there was no secret sauce. It was only a threat because the lead BTSX developer and largest shareholder was keen to work & spend money on it and add a competing BitAsset before BTSX was at 1.0 stage, which would have crippled BTSX. A low value DAC using dilution to pay bills was no threat to BTSX imo and BTSX was already earning a comparable amount in fees that BTS is currently accessing through dilution. (But the dilution is more expensive as it represents a bigger % of the CAP than fees at a higher valuation did.) There were no easy answers though.

Ideas

- Wait for moonstone, 1.0, CryptoSmith and other upcoming developments to see if they can reverse the adoption trend.

- Liquidity - consider all possible options for ways to add liquidity even using the DAC as the market maker in a limited capacity if the downtrend continues.

- Give people something to do with BitAssets. Music/Gaming/Gambling/DNS auctions or even a prediction market might be worth a shot too.
 
Other:

World Events - Banks confiscations and charges on bank deposits are becoming more and more widespread, there are still no decentralized BitAsset competitors on the market, so the world may give you an opportunity that makes BitAssets worth the risk to more people.

If all else fails,  consider raising funds for a no inflation crypto-currency that also honours BTS.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2015, 01:53:28 pm by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats