Situation report : The shortage of BitCNY begins

[btswildpig]

Thanks to BitCNY  now there is more volume on BitShares Asset Exchange than on all other centralized exchanges combined for BTS pairs.

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/#markets

I think it's a self short to extent his previous short position , not organic trading . 

[pc]

Speaking of interest - why are shorters offering interest in this market? They are effectively encouraging USD/CNY holders to continue holding, increasing their problem of not being able to cover.

I agree to an extent but I'm shorting with a tiny interest in this market so my shorts are competitive with other shorts so I can lock in at a certain price.

I'm tempted to translate this as "because I don't really know how shorts work"... :-/

The interest is only relevant for shorts trading at the feed price. If you want to lock in at a better (for you) price, the interest is irrelevant.

[vlight]

Thanks to BitCNY  now there is more volume on BitShares Asset Exchange than on all other centralized exchanges combined for BTS pairs.

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitshares-x/#markets

[yellowecho]

Speaking of interest - why are shorters offering interest in this market? They are effectively encouraging USD/CNY holders to continue holding, increasing their problem of not being able to cover.

I agree to an extent but I'm shorting with a tiny interest in this market so my shorts are competitive with other shorts so I can lock in at a certain price. 

[pc]

In a bear market it is better for you if you don't short, even if that means buying at a higher than average price.

i would think it would be better to short to myself a portion of my BTS and get interest for bit bitCNY. This would be a solution.

In a bear market the interest earned will probably not outweigh the loss in value from staying long in BTS.

Speaking of interest - why are shorters offering interest in this market? They are effectively encouraging USD/CNY holders to continue holding, increasing their problem of not being able to cover.

[sudo]

bitshares play(dac play )  fund  has  300k bitCNY  right?

[alt]

it can help if more people short CNY,USD,GOLD .....
when you need BITCNY, and you don't want to lose your BTS, you can sell BTS to get BITCNY, and buy the same BTS at BTC38

[starspirit]

If someone needs CNY he or she should short to himself. Ok, it is expensive to do it, but this is the system. This would also help to stabilize the prices, because someone would use BTS to short bitCNY into existence.

You would be market neutral so it would be the same as you are holding BTS, but i agree you would need to have more BTS then a couple of weeks before.

Which means these people need to buy BTS.
Which is how the system is supposed to work.  Demand for bitAssets leads indirectly to purchases on BTS in this way.

Or they use BTS they already own to self-create (given it was inferred earlier these buyers are not willing to give up their existing BTS, here's another option). Or a liquidity provider uses their existing inventory of BTS to self-create and sell the bitCNY at a premium for real CNY on the free market. (If there is truly a shortage of bitCNY, it should trade at a premium to CNY, encouraging such liquidity providers. If it does not trade at a premium in the face of a shortage, why not?).
Either of these supply sources does not require anyone to purchase more BTS.

I don't track the Chinese exchanges, but I sense that the real problem is that the "shortage" is not really large enough to tempt the liquidity providers, no? Part of the issue there is the risk that liquidity providers take on. They should never be forced to buy back above the feed price (I'm not sure if this bug has been fixed yet), and it should be as simple and risk-free as possible for them to create and destroy new units according to the demand.

[Ander]

If someone needs CNY he or she should short to himself. Ok, it is expensive to do it, but this is the system. This would also help to stabilize the prices, because someone would use BTS to short bitCNY into existence.

You would be market neutral so it would be the same as you are holding BTS, but i agree you would need to have more BTS then a couple of weeks before.

Which means these people need to buy BTS.
Which is how the system is supposed to work.  Demand for bitAssets leads indirectly to purchases on BTS in this way.

[Shentist]

If someone needs CNY he or she should short to himself. Ok, it is expensive to do it, but this is the system. This would also help to stabilize the prices, because someone would use BTS to short bitCNY into existence.

You would be market neutral so it would be the same as you are holding BTS, but i agree you would need to have more BTS then a couple of weeks before.

What someone "should" do (i. e. with the global good in mind) is not necessarily what is best for himself (i. e. in his local situation). Kind of like a prisoners' dilemma with a lot of prisoners.

In a bear market it is better for you if you don't short, even if that means buying at a higher than average price.

i would think it would be better to short to myself a portion of my BTS and get interest for bit bitCNY. This would be a solution.

But you are right, i just wanted to say - this is freemarket - and it is a tiny market, so this is natural and a good sign.

[pc]

If someone needs CNY he or she should short to himself. Ok, it is expensive to do it, but this is the system. This would also help to stabilize the prices, because someone would use BTS to short bitCNY into existence.

You would be market neutral so it would be the same as you are holding BTS, but i agree you would need to have more BTS then a couple of weeks before.

What someone "should" do (i. e. with the global good in mind) is not necessarily what is best for himself (i. e. in his local situation). Kind of like a prisoners' dilemma with a lot of prisoners.

In a bear market it is better for you if you don't short, even if that means buying at a higher than average price.

[Shentist]

sorry to say this,

but

you are talking for "traders", who want to cover without selfshorting (because they are lacking the BTS or they want to get out without a high loss).

This is not a problem of the system, just some traders who get caught on the wrong foot.

Happens all the time on NASDAQ etc. too. So, they have to buy with bad prices, this is freemarket!

Not just that , there is high demand for BitCNY these days from non-trader too .
Bad price is for anybody , including those business and their customers who uses BitCNY  .

If someone needs CNY he or she should short to himself. Ok, it is expensive to do it, but this is the system. This would also help to stabilize the prices, because someone would use BTS to short bitCNY into existence.

You would be market neutral so it would be the same as you are holding BTS, but i agree you would need to have more BTS then a couple of weeks before.

[btswildpig]

sorry to say this,

but

you are talking for "traders", who want to cover without selfshorting (because they are lacking the BTS or they want to get out without a high loss).

This is not a problem of the system, just some traders who get caught on the wrong foot.

Happens all the time on NASDAQ etc. too. So, they have to buy with bad prices, this is freemarket!

Not just that , there is high demand for BitCNY these days from non-trader too .
Bad price is for anybody , including those business and their customers who uses BitCNY  .

[Shentist]

sorry to say this,

but

you are talking for "traders", who want to cover without selfshorting (because they are lacking the BTS or they want to get out without a high loss).

This is not a problem of the system, just some traders who get caught on the wrong foot.

Happens all the time on NASDAQ etc. too. So, they have to buy with bad prices, this is freemarket!

[btswildpig]

Demand from BitCNY comes from :
1、BitCNY can be deposit into BTC38 as CNY on a 1:1 ratio , it increases the usage of BitCNY because of the low spread  .
2、People are stockpiling BitCNY for a crowd-funding project .
3、To cover the short position .

Hm... you may be on to something there... you forgot

4. People want to get out of BTS due to its falling price, without leaving the BitShares ecosystem

The combination of 3+4 is very dangerous, because it creates a self-enforcing feedback loop that drives the BTS price into the ground.

3\ What happens if people pay fiat to buy BitCNY to cover ? Will that still creates  self-enforcing feedback loop combine with 4 ?

[pc]

Demand from BitCNY comes from :
1、BitCNY can be deposit into BTC38 as CNY on a 1:1 ratio , it increases the usage of BitCNY because of the low spread  .
2、People are stockpiling BitCNY for a crowd-funding project .
3、To cover the short position .

Hm... you may be on to something there... you forgot

4. People want to get out of BTS due to its falling price, without leaving the BitShares ecosystem

The combination of 3+4 is very dangerous, because it creates a self-enforcing feedback loop that drives the BTS price into the ground.

[btswildpig]

There is two kinds of shorting .

1. Short to others , it needs people to provide their BTS as the counter order . But if people don't want to sell their BTS for BitCNY , it'll be a dead end .

2. Short to himself  . But he needs to cover after a month , then he'll face the shortage of BitCNY himself , unless he has countless BTS to keep shorting to himself .

[btswildpig]

Would having a western counterpart of BitSharesMining who pays in BitCNY help?

not really , if he pays in BitCNY , it only creates more demand , but not the supply ,

[yellowecho]

I'll gladly short bitCNY when I get home.

[rgcrypto]

Would having a western counterpart of BitSharesMining who pays in BitCNY help?

[btswildpig]

so, if I am trying to short some bitCNY into existence, why is nobody buying them?

Because the price of BTS is too low , people don't want to sell BTS for BitCNY at this point .
They want BitCNY , they also don't want to trade their BTS for it .

So you need to wait for someone who is willing to dump their BTS for BitCNY at this point , but not likely because the price is really low , everybody I know refuse to do so .

If they want BitCNY but don't want to pay BTS for it...why not buy more cheap BTS and immediately convert it? I don't see the problem.

Gotta pay something to get BitCNY lol.

less than 2000 USD worth of BitCNY -- BTS order with decent price . Because of the shortage of BitCNY , so it's natural that no body is willing to sell BitCNY to buy BTS either , got it ?

They could always short into existence.  MetaExchange says they have little demand at the moment.

Because of the fact that it's hard to get BitCNY , people don't want to short much considering they need BitCNY to cover after 1 month

[Pheonike]

There should be away that when  the supply reaches a certain threshold,  the system can short new supply.

[btswildpig]

so, if I am trying to short some bitCNY into existence, why is nobody buying them?

Because the price of BTS is too low , people don't want to sell BTS for BitCNY at this point .
They want BitCNY , they also don't want to trade their BTS for it .

So you need to wait for someone who is willing to dump their BTS for BitCNY at this point , but not likely because the price is really low , everybody I know refuse to do so .

If they want BitCNY but don't want to pay BTS for it...why not buy more cheap BTS and immediately convert it? I don't see the problem.

Gotta pay something to get BitCNY lol.

less than 2000 USD worth of BitCNY -- BTS order with decent price . Because of the shortage of BitCNY , so it's natural that no body is willing to sell BitCNY to buy BTS either , got it ?

They could always short into existence.  MetaExchange says they have little demand at the moment.

Nobody uses BTC anymore in the Chinese BitShares community , so unless MetaExchange sell their BitCNY on Yunbi with BitCNY:CNY pair , it couldn't help much either .

[yellowecho]

so, if I am trying to short some bitCNY into existence, why is nobody buying them?

Because the price of BTS is too low , people don't want to sell BTS for BitCNY at this point .
They want BitCNY , they also don't want to trade their BTS for it .

So you need to wait for someone who is willing to dump their BTS for BitCNY at this point , but not likely because the price is really low , everybody I know refuse to do so .

If they want BitCNY but don't want to pay BTS for it...why not buy more cheap BTS and immediately convert it? I don't see the problem.

Gotta pay something to get BitCNY lol.

less than 2000 USD worth of BitCNY -- BTS order with decent price . Because of the shortage of BitCNY , so it's natural that no body is willing to sell BitCNY to buy BTS either , got it ?

They could always short into existence.  MetaExchange says they have little demand at the moment.   

[btswildpig]

so, if I am trying to short some bitCNY into existence, why is nobody buying them?

Because the price of BTS is too low , people don't want to sell BTS for BitCNY at this point .
They want BitCNY , they also don't want to trade their BTS for it .

So you need to wait for someone who is willing to dump their BTS for BitCNY at this point , but not likely because the price is really low , everybody I know refuse to do so .

If they want BitCNY but don't want to pay BTS for it...why not buy more cheap BTS and immediately convert it? I don't see the problem.

Gotta pay something to get BitCNY lol.

less than 2000 USD worth of BitCNY -- BTS order with decent price . Because of the shortage of BitCNY , so it's natural that no body is willing to sell BitCNY to buy BTS either , got it ?

There is a funnel to do BitCNY:CNY in both ways . But they're affected by the shortage too .

[yellowecho]

We have extremely low demand for bitCNY on metaexchange - not sure if that is due to the chinese community not knowing about us, or what...

https://metaexchange.info/markets/BTC/bitCNY

[nomoreheroes7]

so, if I am trying to short some bitCNY into existence, why is nobody buying them?

Because the price of BTS is too low , people don't want to sell BTS for BitCNY at this point .
They want BitCNY , they also don't want to trade their BTS for it .

So you need to wait for someone who is willing to dump their BTS for BitCNY at this point , but not likely because the price is really low , everybody I know refuse to do so .

If they want BitCNY but don't want to pay BTS for it...why not buy more cheap BTS and immediately convert it? I don't see the problem.

Gotta pay something to get BitCNY lol.

But yes, a funnel transforming CNY directly to BitCNY is so unbelievably needed.

[onceuponatime]

so, if I am trying to short some bitCNY into existence, why is nobody buying them?

Because the price of BTS is too low , people don't want to sell BTS for BitCNY at this point .
They want BitCNY , they also don't want to trade their BTS for it .

So you need to wait for someone who is willing to dump their BTS for BitCNY at this point , but not likely because the price is really low , everybody I know refuse to do so .

Nothing I can do to help, then. 

[btswildpig]

so, if I am trying to short some bitCNY into existence, why is nobody buying them?

Because the price of BTS is too low , people don't want to sell BTS for BitCNY at this point .
They want BitCNY , they also don't want to trade their BTS for it .

So you need to wait for someone who is willing to dump their BTS for BitCNY at this point , but not likely because the price is really low , everybody I know refuse to do so .


So on one hand , you have people who lose incentive to short due to the low price ;
on the other hand , you have people who lost incentive to provide counter order for the shorting order , because they don't want to settle the loses by turning BTS into pegged asset .

[onceuponatime]

so, if I am trying to short some bitCNY into existence, why is nobody buying them?

[btswildpig]

We have extremely low demand for bitCNY on metaexchange - not sure if that is due to the chinese community not knowing about us, or what...

https://metaexchange.info/markets/BTC/bitCNY

BitCNY is 1:1 exchange with fiat directly in China . so BTC trading is not attractive .

[monsterer]

We have extremely low demand for bitCNY on metaexchange - not sure if that is due to the chinese community not knowing about us, or what...

https://metaexchange.info/markets/BTC/bitCNY

[rgcrypto]

Glad to see high demand. It's a good problem to have

[btswildpig]

they can buy on metaexchange.info

The demand is like at least 10,000 USD worth of BitCNY for just a few ordinary guys I know , not to mention other people and business .

[wuyanren]

Extend the contract period

[Shentist]

they can buy on metaexchange.info

[btswildpig]

Before the massive adoption , the shortage of BitCNY already begun .
Now www.tradebts.com is charging additional fees for buying BitCNY as a temporary solution .
Many people who want to buy BitCNY to cover their shorts still worrying ...
Also business who is looking to adopt BitCNY would be stuck at the bottleneck .

Looks like we have demand for the major product , and the supply is not enough ....

But also because of the low price and may be some endopathic mechanism (eg. I don't know .... ), people don't have big incentive to produce more BitCNY  .....

Demand from BitCNY comes from :
1、BitCNY can be deposit into BTC38 as CNY on a 1:1 ratio , it increases the usage of BitCNY because of the low spread  .
2、People are stockpiling BitCNY for a crowd-funding project .
3、To cover the short position .