Now we are at the bottom.

[jsidhu]

because new BTS are being created in every blocks, the price going down is a norm, because more and more supply and demand stays the same.

doubt it

[omgurindanger]

because new BTS are being created in every blocks, the price going down is a norm, because more and more supply and demand stays the same.

[D4vegee]

i bet the bottom is under 1k

If that is true,
All your bitshares are belong to me.

And me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chewchew]

i bet the bottom is under 1k

If that is true,
All your bitshares are belong to me.

[Marky0001]

i bet the bottom is under 1k

[bitmeat]

stellar seems to use mysql db for their hot data which would be synced up with the backend... seems different.. although not sure if storing tx's in mysql db is the right way to go for scalability issues.

To clarify, I'm impressed with the whitepaper, not the implementation.

[btswildpig]

What I think the platform needs, is the ability to look at everything priced in BitUSD, BitCNY, BitEUR. So it looks like a real trading platform and would appeal to those who want to use it as such.

Take for example ability to trade the pairs BitUSD:BitCNY, or BitCNY:BitGOLD, etc. That would really create demand for BitUSD, BitCNY, etc.

Most of the traders out there don't care about BTS price. They want to buy stocks, futures, options represented in a currency they are familiar with.

Actually we can trade bitUSD agains bitCNY. U can check the wallet. However there is no volume now.
Pls check this. Real adoption
https://www.dacx.com/

Is there an English version of the site?

there will be

[jsidhu]

stellar seems to use mysql db for their hot data which would be synced up with the backend... seems different.. although not sure if storing tx's in mysql db is the right way to go for scalability issues.

[luckybit]

I just calculated the whole BTS in btc38 worth 8.1 million CNY about 1.3 million USD.
Any big guy can buy out all off them.

Many speculators are out and go to the China Stock market. The remain are long term holder that understand BTS. During the last month there are a lot of people create fictitious rumours in the BTC38 comment page. They are out too, they have nothing to dump, only want the price to drop so that they can buy some cheap BTS.

I think now we are at the bottom.

Pls check this. A real adoption
https://www.dacx.com/

Feel free to short USD or buy some BTS at btc38.

I hate being right about price predictions.
$10 million... but we'll rise again.

[bitmeat]

Should we invest in Stellar instead then? 

And I think the answer to that also greatly depends on scalability. BitShares as is, is absolutely not scalable. Not saying Stellar is. But if you combine Stellar's consensus protocol with a scalable ledger, it could really spread like wildfire. (And who knows they may have a solution for that as well)

How is stellar any more scalable than bitshares? I could be wrong, but doesn't the rate of consensus decrease the more validators there are. So as the stellar network becomes more "decentralized" and there are more unique validators the network will process transactions more slowly. With bitshares however there is only one validator per block so the rate of consensus per block is essentially instant and rate of block production is just limited to network latency.

Did I say Stellar is more scalable? I said the answer to the question whether a crypto can become $100B, $1T+ market cap is whether it can scale to billions of users. You kind of took things out of context.

My understanding is that you can have hierarchy of quorums. So you and I could be transacting in the same geographical region, and our quorums may take longer to propagate, but ultimately within our quorum network, confirmation is instant. I'm fuzzy on the details, but I love the federated approach.

[clout]

Should we invest in Stellar instead then? 

And I think the answer to that also greatly depends on scalability. BitShares as is, is absolutely not scalable. Not saying Stellar is. But if you combine Stellar's consensus protocol with a scalable ledger, it could really spread like wildfire. (And who knows they may have a solution for that as well)

How is stellar any more scalable than bitshares? I could be wrong, but doesn't the rate of consensus decrease the more validators there are. So as the stellar network becomes more "decentralized" and there are more unique validators the network will process transactions more slowly. With bitshares however there is only one validator per block so the rate of consensus per block is essentially instant and rate of block production is just limited to network latency.

[bitmeat]

To get back on topic here... I think in the short term there is actually an opportunity here for a whale to come in and take out the bidders of BitUSD.

Let's say someone having 100BTC laying around comes in and buys BTS at market, but does in small chunks of like 5 BTC, so as not to spook it. Then instantly goes and shorts BTS for BitUSD. Suddenly there is a demand for BTS and price keeps moving up, while they keep buying BTS and shorting BitUSD. Then at some point they cover what they originally put in $-wise, keep the rest as BTS free ride.

[jaran]

Since stellar has been recoded does anyone know if they plan on changing the distribution of the coins?  Or issue a new coin with the new blockchain?

All I ever hear about stellar is problems with how it is distributed.

[bitmeat]

Should we invest in Stellar instead then? 

I love most things about stellar, except for currently 95% of the supply is held by the foundation. So that market cap you have to multiply 20x. That explains why price is so low. https://www.stellar.org/stats/ - So their market cap is really around $250M if you take into account the undistributed supply.

Seems expensive, but at the same time, we see some serious players interested in them, and also really great team. The real question is, how likely is for Stellar to take over Bitcoin, even if it is valid in premise, there could be many other roadblocks down the road. (Same questions apply for Bitshares).

Really price is irrelevant for most of these alts, it's just a matter of "What's the likelyhood of its marketcap being $100B one day, or may be even $1T?"

And I think the answer to that also greatly depends on scalability. BitShares as is, is absolutely not scalable. Not saying Stellar is. But if you combine Stellar's consensus protocol with a scalable ledger, it could really spread like wildfire. (And who knows they may have a solution for that as well)

[xeroc]

Should we invest in Stellar instead then? 

I'd rather buy more NOTEs

[not an investment advice]

[nomoreheroes7]

I believe Stellar has recently been rewritten and is no longer (or soon won't be) a clone of Ripple.

WHOA now...didn't know this.

How has it changed?

https://www.stellar.org/blog/stellar-consensus-protocol-proof-code/

Should we invest in Stellar instead then? 

[vikram]

Could you elaborate on on your analysis of stellar's consensus model?

Can't find the comparison, but basically, it's an instant confirmation based on quorums. In a way I view DPOS as a very special case of what Stellar has done.

https://www.stellar.org/learn/explainers/

And they also have big plans for decentralized exchanges, developers, API, etc. That said I don't know whether the exact implementation has centralized elements or not. Needless to say their whitepaper is a game changer and will change the landscape of crypto.

That said - BitShares could at some point implement their protocol - it is after all open source. At the very least an integration might be very beneficial.

Stellar is a clone of ripple.

I believe Stellar has recently been rewritten and is no longer (or soon won't be) a clone of Ripple.

WHOA now...didn't know this.

How has it changed?

https://www.stellar.org/blog/stellar-consensus-protocol-proof-code/

[fuzzy]

Could you elaborate on on your analysis of stellar's consensus model?

Can't find the comparison, but basically, it's an instant confirmation based on quorums. In a way I view DPOS as a very special case of what Stellar has done.

https://www.stellar.org/learn/explainers/

And they also have big plans for decentralized exchanges, developers, API, etc. That said I don't know whether the exact implementation has centralized elements or not. Needless to say their whitepaper is a game changer and will change the landscape of crypto.

That said - BitShares could at some point implement their protocol - it is after all open source. At the very least an integration might be very beneficial.

Stellar is a clone of ripple.

I believe Stellar has recently been rewritten and is no longer (or soon won't be) a clone of Ripple.

WHOA now...didn't know this.

How has it changed?

[vikram]

Could you elaborate on on your analysis of stellar's consensus model?

Can't find the comparison, but basically, it's an instant confirmation based on quorums. In a way I view DPOS as a very special case of what Stellar has done.

https://www.stellar.org/learn/explainers/

And they also have big plans for decentralized exchanges, developers, API, etc. That said I don't know whether the exact implementation has centralized elements or not. Needless to say their whitepaper is a game changer and will change the landscape of crypto.

That said - BitShares could at some point implement their protocol - it is after all open source. At the very least an integration might be very beneficial.

Stellar is a clone of ripple.

I believe Stellar has recently been rewritten and is no longer (or soon won't be) a clone of Ripple.

[Xeldal]

What I think the platform needs, is the ability to look at everything priced in BitUSD, BitCNY, BitEUR. So it looks like a real trading platform and would appeal to those who want to use it as such.

Take for example ability to trade the pairs BitUSD:BitCNY, or BitCNY:BitGOLD, etc. That would really create demand for BitUSD, BitCNY, etc.

Most of the traders out there don't care about BTS price. They want to buy stocks, futures, options represented in a currency they are familiar with.

You can already trade the markets you listed, they are just not easy to find.  You have to search for them in a very particular way.

I agree though.  I'd like to see some big obvious buttons on the featured markets page that sort the featured and listed markets by that base.

Actually we can trade bitUSD agains bitCNY. U can check the wallet. However there is no volume now.
Pls check this. Real adoption
https://www.dacx.com/

So you missed what I said above about the blockchain generating synthetic liquidity?

i.e. if there are people selling BitUSD for BTS, and people selling BTS for BitGOLD, it should automatically show on the books as synthetic order to sell BitUSD for BitGOLD.

I suggested something similar.  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,15118.msg195232.html#msg195232
Like ripples Autobridging https://ripple.com/uncategorized/introducing-offer-autobridging/

[onceuponatime]

What I think the platform needs, is the ability to look at everything priced in BitUSD, BitCNY, BitEUR. So it looks like a real trading platform and would appeal to those who want to use it as such.

Take for example ability to trade the pairs BitUSD:BitCNY, or BitCNY:BitGOLD, etc. That would really create demand for BitUSD, BitCNY, etc.

Most of the traders out there don't care about BTS price. They want to buy stocks, futures, options represented in a currency they are familiar with.

Actually we can trade bitUSD agains bitCNY. U can check the wallet. However there is no volume now.
Pls check this. Real adoption
https://www.dacx.com/

Is there an English version of the site?

[bitmeat]

Actually we can trade bitUSD agains bitCNY. U can check the wallet. However there is no volume now.
Pls check this. Real adoption
https://www.dacx.com/

So you missed what I said above about the blockchain generating synthetic liquidity?

i.e. if there are people selling BitUSD for BTS, and people selling BTS for BitGOLD, it should automatically show on the books as synthetic order to sell BitUSD for BitGOLD.

[lastagile]

What I think the platform needs, is the ability to look at everything priced in BitUSD, BitCNY, BitEUR. So it looks like a real trading platform and would appeal to those who want to use it as such.

Take for example ability to trade the pairs BitUSD:BitCNY, or BitCNY:BitGOLD, etc. That would really create demand for BitUSD, BitCNY, etc.

Most of the traders out there don't care about BTS price. They want to buy stocks, futures, options represented in a currency they are familiar with.

Actually we can trade bitUSD agains bitCNY. U can check the wallet. However there is no volume now.
Pls check this. Real adoption
https://www.dacx.com/

[fuzzy]

Could you elaborate on on your analysis of stellar's consensus model?

Can't find the comparison, but basically, it's an instant confirmation based on quorums. In a way I view DPOS as a very special case of what Stellar has done.

https://www.stellar.org/learn/explainers/

And they also have big plans for decentralized exchanges, developers, API, etc. That said I don't know whether the exact implementation has centralized elements or not. Needless to say their whitepaper is a game changer and will change the landscape of crypto.

That said - BitShares could at some point implement their protocol - it is after all open source. At the very least an integration might be very beneficial.

Stellar is a clone of ripple.bitshares gives the holders the ability to choose delegates. Stellar gives the delegates the ability to choose delegates. Big difference.

[bitmeat]

You can already do this. Every asset is tradable against every other asset already, most of those markets just don't have much adoption and liquidity.

I need to elaborate - I'm saying the engine could create synthetic liquidity.

e.g. someone wants to sell BitUSD for BTS, then someone else wants to sell BitGOLD for BitUSD. But both these orders are sitting on a thin market. However  when a third party wants to sell BTS for BitGOLD. The engine could match this 3-way order and populate the order books.

[bitmeat]

Could you elaborate on on your analysis of stellar's consensus model?

Can't find the comparison, but basically, it's an instant confirmation based on quorums. In a way I view DPOS as a very special case of what Stellar has done.

https://www.stellar.org/learn/explainers/

And they also have big plans for decentralized exchanges, developers, API, etc. That said I don't know whether the exact implementation has centralized elements or not. Needless to say their whitepaper is a game changer and will change the landscape of crypto.

That said - BitShares could at some point implement their protocol - it is after all open source. At the very least an integration might be very beneficial.

[Troglodactyl]

What I think the platform needs, is the ability to look at everything priced in BitUSD, BitCNY, BitEUR. So it looks like a real trading platform and would appeal to those who want to use it as such.

Take for example ability to trade the pairs BitUSD:BitCNY, or BitCNY:BitGOLD, etc. That would really create demand for BitUSD, BitCNY, etc.
...

You can already do this. Every asset is tradable against every other asset already, most of those markets just don't have much adoption and liquidity.

[carpet ride]

Finally - I think Stellar is showing a far superior implementation of distributed consensus, so even if BTS delivers on amazing product + marketing, it may still be outpaced by other solutions.

Could you elaborate on on your analysis of stellar's consensus model? 


I share much of your view on bitshares valuation btw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bitmeat]

What I think the platform needs, is the ability to look at everything priced in BitUSD, BitCNY, BitEUR. So it looks like a real trading platform and would appeal to those who want to use it as such.

Take for example ability to trade the pairs BitUSD:BitCNY, or BitCNY:BitGOLD, etc. That would really create demand for BitUSD, BitCNY, etc.

Most of the traders out there don't care about BTS price. They want to buy stocks, futures, options represented in a currency they are familiar with.

[bitmeat]

Let me call out the elephant in the room - there is no solid demand for BitUSD (or other Bit assets for that matter).

Market cap of all Bit assets is under $500K. So with 2.5B BTS in existence, what is a fair price do you think to support $500K in collateral?

Yes, I am taking out of the equation the speculation, because the reality is - the product is there, for some reason there is no adoption. Whether it's marketing, or the defects in the software, or both.

Now I know $500K in BitUSD is laughable if product was free of defects and there was really effective marketing (although I'd rather see defects addressed before marketing goes in). But reality is that this is what BTS is really worth. Ok, let's double it because of collateral. Technically at the moment BTS as market cap, if we take out the speculations is worth $1M.

I think it's great though, because it is creating market dynamics - speculators still try to short, and then they have to re-buy the BitUSD they shorted every 30 days. All the way down to $1M market cap. Once that happens, everything will reverse. BitUSD holders will scramble to sell. A healthy market has these extremes.

And then again - there will always be speculation, so clearly speculators are comfortable with BTS being around 24x the market cap of all bit assets. But I wouldn't be surprised if we dip down to 5x may be even 3x before recovery.

Finally - I think Stellar is showing a far superior implementation of distributed consensus, so even if BTS delivers on amazing product + marketing, it may still be outpaced by other solutions.

[Chuckone]

I agree, we reach a point were most of the bitshares are in the hands of people understanding the value  of BitShares on the term.

These persons are not selling.  They are sitting on their investment, eating pop corn and waiting for the show to begin !

The price should'nt be able to keep falling much more.

Today is a good day to buy some more bts, maybe the last one ...

I've heard this kind of comment several times since Bitshares X went live (yes, even before the merger). It hasn't been true once. I don't think we have seen the bottom yet. I bought most of my shares before the merger, so all I can do is hodl and hope that the sun will shine at some point.

[EstefanTT]

I agree, we reach a point were most of the bitshares are in the hands of people understanding the value  of BitShares on the term.

These persons are not selling.  They are sitting on their investment, eating pop corn and waiting for the show to begin !

The price should'nt be able to keep falling much more.

Today is a good day to buy some more bts, maybe the last one ...

[lastagile]

I just calculated the whole BTS in btc38 worth 8.1 million CNY about 1.3 million USD.
Any big guy can buy out all off them.

Many speculators are out and go to the China Stock market. The remain are long term holder that understand BTS. During the last month there are a lot of people create fictitious rumours in the BTC38 comment page. They are out too, they have nothing to dump, only want the price to drop so that they can buy some cheap BTS.

I think now we are at the bottom.

Pls check this. A real adoption
https://www.dacx.com/

Feel free to short USD or buy some BTS at btc38.