A Toast to Toast

[yiminh]

Toast has been a great member of our team but has always been a free agent and not an employee.   He came to BTS to produce the DNS chain but that has been absorbed by BTS.

He is currently serving as a liaison to BTS Music team which was progressing largely without technical support from the core team until Toast went over to help.   I recently talked with Toast about the future for BTS Music and am gathering the requirements that they would need to launch on the BTS chain rather than their own chain.   

To my knowledge Toast is actually bringing new money into the BTS ecosystem and is still a believer in our future.   I applaud Toast for finding a way to pay his bills while still contributing to our ecosystem full time without having to sell all of his BTS.   

Toast is sending any BTS his delegates earn to the angel account and we are using those funds to keep the other developers fed. 

To Clarify:  Music is still planning their own chain and that hasn't changed.  I am merely attempting to find out what it would take to CHANGE that while still providing a win for NOTE holders.   It is possible that nothing could change that.  COB and Eddie have done said nothing and my position has long been a desire to bring them into BTS.

Toast made a good choice, Bitshare is dead, long live Notes/Music!

[carpet ride]

At this point I WOULD like to sell note on the Bitshares blockchain.

What's stopping you?  NOTES are in the internal market.

Sorry I worded that wrong.

Hopefully Note will stay on the Bitshares blockchain and not create its own chain.

Agree - better for both parties


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[Gentso1]

At this point I WOULD like to sell note on the Bitshares blockchain.

What's stopping you?  NOTES are in the internal market.

Sorry I worded that wrong.

Hopefully Note will stay on the Bitshares blockchain and not create its own chain.

[yellowecho]

At this point I WOULD like to sell note on the Bitshares blockchain.

What's stopping you?  NOTES are in the internal market.

[Gentso1]

Thanks everyone for the detailed explanation on NOTES.  I had read the info before but it never really clicked for some reason. Sounds like an incredible project.

The reason why it is not perceived as hostile is because they allocated 70% of their stake to people who held AGS, PTS and BTS, and 20% went to a crowd-sale where anyone could participate. In essence they raised money for a new project, and still gave "us" most of the stake in that new project, which makes most of us more than happy to support them. The main reason why some would want a merger is because it would be ideal with more liquidity in the BTS system ASAP. So the pro/con mainly becomes a technical/marketing consideration rather than a question of ownership.

Spot on.

At this point I WOULD like to trade notes  on the Bitshares blockchain and keep trading them.
-No need for IOU usd, BitUSD could be used
-Bitshares blockchain has been worked over for some time now and held up just fine(mostly). I am not technical but it seems easier to maintain 1 chain instead of 2
-This allows Toast or whom ever to work on Note but still benefits Bitshares directly because they are traded within the same client on the same chain
-I don't believe it would change marketing for Note of Bitshares. In fact I think it gives added functionality to both products, which in turn gives a user more reasons to give us a try and perhaps stick around. Come for trading features on a Decentralized market and stay to get a piece of your favorite artist.     

[fuzzy]

Not to be stupid here, but what exactly the heck is notes and why is it not part of the blockchain?  I'm trying to grok the ecosystem a bit better here.
What would be their reason for running a blockchain fork which to my mind would be a hostile action.

I find it strange that you are involved in developing a major BTS integrated solution and don't know what notes are.


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They might be really busy in the background and might not really care to do much digging on the forums.  Maybe the tech itself was enough to get them interested without ever caring who the players were.  However...maybe not. 

We are in talks about scheduling a hangout but I want to get at least 5 days advance notice so I can tell everyone when it is...because it doesn't seem to me like Fridays are going to work for them.  Hopefully we can help clear some stuff up there. 

[d3adh3ad]

Not to be stupid here, but what exactly the heck is notes and why is it not part of the blockchain?  I'm trying to grok the ecosystem a bit better here.
What would be their reason for running a blockchain fork which to my mind would be a hostile action.

I find it strange that you are involved in developing a major BTS integrated solution and don't know what notes are.


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[CLains]

Thanks everyone for the detailed explanation on NOTES.  I had read the info before but it never really clicked for some reason. Sounds like an incredible project.

The reason why it is not perceived as hostile is because they allocated 70% of their stake to people who held AGS, PTS and BTS, and 20% went to a crowd-sale where anyone could participate. In essence they raised money for a new project, and still gave "us" most of the stake in that new project, which makes most of us more than happy to support them. The main reason why some would want a merger is because it would be ideal with more liquidity in the BTS system ASAP. So the pro/con mainly becomes a technical/marketing consideration rather than a question of ownership.

[luckybit]

I hate to be a spoiler but we have increased the Bitshares supply to acquire DNS and Vote. Everyone was screaming about dilution and then BTS started its downfall. I for once was in favor of the increased supply of BTS and thought that acquiring DNS and Vote would be hugely beneficial for BTS. DNS is very important. Toast who supposed to create Bitshares DNS now works for Music...It reminds me the days that Brian Page, our super marketing director left Bitshares just after our short lived pump.

I really like Toast and he has been always very helpful so I am happy for his decisions in working with Music so I wish him all the best. I just hope I don't see anyone else leaving any time soon and projects to remain unfinished..

Proof that the merger was a bad idea. But hey I wasn't in favor of dilution either if you check my posts.

I tried to be optimistic about it because long term maybe it was right to do the dilution but the merger? I don't think we gained anything from it. Bitshares isn't dramatically better.

No more mergers. It's not a good idea to merge prior to the other DACs having proven themselves to have a community worth merging with.

[mf-tzo]

I hate to be a spoiler but we have increased the Bitshares supply to acquire DNS and Vote. Everyone was screaming about dilution and then BTS started its downfall. I for once was in favor of the increased supply of BTS and thought that acquiring DNS and Vote would be hugely beneficial for BTS. DNS is very important. Toast who supposed to create Bitshares DNS now works for Music...It reminds me the days that Brian Page, our super marketing director left Bitshares just after our short lived pump.

I really like Toast and he has been always very helpful so I am happy for his decisions in working with Music so I wish him all the best. I just hope I don't see anyone else leaving any time soon and projects to remain unfinished..

[tsaishen]

Thanks everyone for the detailed explanation on NOTES.  I had read the info before but it never really clicked for some reason.
Sounds like an incredible project.

As for Toast, I saw some of his posts, and he seemed like a good guy.  Sad to see good people leave.

[arhag]

You can find that information here: http://whatarenotes.info/

Under "NOTES VALUE":

One of the differences between the current BitShares blockchain and the upcoming BitShares Music blockchain is that the BitAsset market engine will be removed. BitShares Music will serve as a distributed, on blockchain, market for all UIAs. This includes both artist tokens and USD pegged IOUs created and issued out by gateways that protect all users and artists from volatility.

Gateways provide the on and off ramp to/from fiat_USD to crypto_USD.

Those that fear counterparty risk from the gateways (you must trust the gateways to redeem the IOU_USD for a real USD) can move their funds into BitAssets, like BitUSD, BitCNY or even BitGOLD, on the BitShares blockchain since BitAssets are free from counterparty risk.

Under "UPCOMING WALLET":

Moonstone.io will be integrated seamlessly within PeerTracks from day one. Moonstone allows for low trust crypto-to-crypto exchange between multiple different blockchains. This will provide much needed initial liquidity for BitShares Music. Initial crypto pairs available on Moonstone include:

    Bitcoin
    BitShares (Including all UIA and BitAssets like BitUSD and BitCNY)
    BitShares Music (including all artist tokens and gateway IOUs)
    BitShares Play

Moonstone provides a simple exchange interface for both markets within the corresponding blockchains and in between blockchains.

Hope that helps.

Thanks.

I can understand Moonstone providing some ACCT functionality for trading between assets of different blockchains. But I was surprised to learn that BitUSD on the Music blockchain has essentially been replaced by IOU_USD (I guess I missed that change). But I think the claim that those who want to be free from counterparty risk should just hold BitAssets on the BitShares blockchain is a little misleading. I don't think you will be able to use the BitUSD on the BitShares blockchain to buy music directly. You would need to do a two-step process. First do ACCT of the BitUSD with the IOU_USD and then use the IOU_USD to buy the music on the Music blockchain. This is because I imagine the blockchain mechanisms (having some percentage of purchasing funds go towards to the artist and some to NOTE holders) require that the purchase operation be done on the Music blockchain with tokens that exist on the blockchain (which BitUSD does not).

Also, although apparently Moonstone will allow you to do ACCT of BitUSD on the BitShares blockchain with artist tokens on the Music blockchain (therefore only needing one step, not two, if your goal is simply to get the artist tokens), it is still not the same as trading on a DEX. A DEX allows you to place your orders without the couterparty of the trade known a priori and just wait until it is automatically matched and filled by the blockchain with no further effort necessary from you. ACCT don't quite have those nice properties. My guess is that Moonstone will not try to use ACCT between two different parties but will rather act as the sole liquidity provider for Moonstone client users that want to (conveniently) trade between assets of the blockchains listed above. So you may not necessary get the best deal available, but that is the cost the user must pay for convenience.

The other thing I am wondering is whether Peertracks actually expects to have a fiat gateway available by the time they launch? Are they going to go through all that regulatory process to provide the USD gateway? And what about initially providing a multisig BitUSD gateway (since that doesn't have regulatory issues) if getting the fiat gateway online ends up adding too many delays to the initial release?

[robrigo]

Basically, a new DAC is launching to focus on entertainment startups that want to leverage the functionality of BitShares. This DAC won't have market pegged assets and will function autonomously from BitShares. Multi-currency wallets such as moonstone will act as the bridge between multiple chains, so one can still trade between artistcoins issued on the Entertainment DAC and bitUSD issued on BitShares.

Citation needed.

not sure on the minute mark...
https://soundcloud.com/beyond-bitcoin-hangouts/beyond-bitcoin-music-dev-hangout-03-27-2015-s3

Thanks. I listened to this hangout before and don't remember the bolded conclusions above. I will listen to it again.

Although, I would appreciate it if bitsapphire could just confirm whether it is true or not and save me time.

Edit: I only skimmed through it (it would be so nice if there were transcripts), but I am pretty sure those claims were not made in that hangout.

You can find that information here: http://whatarenotes.info/

Under "NOTES VALUE":

One of the differences between the current BitShares blockchain and the upcoming BitShares Music blockchain is that the BitAsset market engine will be removed. BitShares Music will serve as a distributed, on blockchain, market for all UIAs. This includes both artist tokens and USD pegged IOUs created and issued out by gateways that protect all users and artists from volatility.

Gateways provide the on and off ramp to/from fiat_USD to crypto_USD.

Those that fear counterparty risk from the gateways (you must trust the gateways to redeem the IOU_USD for a real USD) can move their funds into BitAssets, like BitUSD, BitCNY or even BitGOLD, on the BitShares blockchain since BitAssets are free from counterparty risk.

Under "UPCOMING WALLET":

Moonstone.io will be integrated seamlessly within PeerTracks from day one. Moonstone allows for low trust crypto-to-crypto exchange between multiple different blockchains. This will provide much needed initial liquidity for BitShares Music. Initial crypto pairs available on Moonstone include:

    Bitcoin
    BitShares (Including all UIA and BitAssets like BitUSD and BitCNY)
    BitShares Music (including all artist tokens and gateway IOUs)
    BitShares Play

Moonstone provides a simple exchange interface for both markets within the corresponding blockchains and in between blockchains.

Hope that helps.

[daidai]

@bytemaster. BM,please don't touch bitshares music,we don't allow you to do so.
you've hurt DNS\VOTE helders!we don't want to be hurt by you anymore.

[Globally Distributed]

Basically, a new DAC is launching to focus on entertainment startups that want to leverage the functionality of BitShares. This DAC won't have market pegged assets and will function autonomously from BitShares. Multi-currency wallets such as moonstone will act as the bridge between multiple chains, so one can still trade between artistcoins issued on the Entertainment DAC and bitUSD issued on BitShares.

Citation needed.

not sure on the minute mark...
https://soundcloud.com/beyond-bitcoin-hangouts/beyond-bitcoin-music-dev-hangout-03-27-2015-s3

Thanks. I listened to this hangout before and don't remember the bolded conclusions above. I will listen to it again.

Although, I would appreciate it if bitsapphire could just confirm whether it is true or not and save me time.

Edit: I only skimmed through it (it would be so nice if there were transcripts), but I am pretty sure those claims were not made in that hangout.

It might actually be in the Taulant / Max Wright interview....