Author Topic: Why no one is shorting bitassets?  (Read 10785 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Since this thread was wondering about bitUSD shorts and morphed into a *I wish I knew* thread.. Guess it's a great place for me to pose the question:



What exactly does that Yield figure mean? Does this mean if I am
holding bitUSD in my account right now I am getting a 5.82% annual interest
rate on it? Or is that a 30 day?
Confirmed .. anually interest.

Quote
Can anyone explain to me how the Yield comes about.. because look further down
the list at these assets that are making a Yield at a market cap as little at
$7.. Heck TRY is running on empty from what I can tell.. yet a huge Yield?
If you move bitUSD that you have held for at least 24h .. the network will automatically pay the yield to you.
give it a try and send your bitUSD back to your self .. you will see ..

Quote
BitUSD seems to be doing AMAZING... why? How?
I have no idea.

Quote
I have been asked in recent days a few times about where that number comes from to which I only can say 'from bitsharesblocks' :)

Really like to offer a smarter answer in the future.. so I defer to all of you on this topic.[/size]
it's alittle outdated: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,8630.0.html

basically the yield today comes from the interest that has to be payed by SHORTs

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Since this thread was wondering about bitUSD shorts and morphed into a *I wish I knew* thread.. Guess it's a great place for me to pose the question:



What exactly does that Yield figure mean? Does this mean if I am holding bitUSD in my account right now I am getting a 5.82% annual interest rate on it? Or is that a 30 day?

Can anyone explain to me how the Yield comes about.. because look further down the list at these assets that are making a Yield at a market cap as little at $7.. Heck TRY is running on empty from what I can tell.. yet a huge Yield?

BitUSD seems to be doing AMAZING... why? How?

I have been asked in recent days a few times about where that number comes from to which I only can say 'from bitsharesblocks' :)

Really like to offer a smarter answer in the future.. so I defer to all of you on this topic.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | Decentralized Gaming Built with Graphene - Now with BookiePro and Sweeps!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Offline fuzzy

Reality check answer: I think you're being overly protective of BTS. And it comes across as though everybody who has doubts/critique about BTS is attacked. This is not only you, it's the culture of this forum. It has been this way since the beginning, far before there was even a mention of a merger.

This is a helpful reality check for me.  Thank you.
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

zerosum

  • Guest
I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because...  the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...
I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too  :-\

In the meantime I will stick with things I know best :) coding some python and doing support for free  ;D

I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... :(

So here is the perfect place to give an example of what you SHOULD say here Tony (if you want people to respect and listen to you). 
"I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... :("
could be:  "I wish I could get someone to understand that people like me who are shorting bitAssets into existence are also getting put in a place that puts too much risk to incentivize my doing so..."

You see how this takes Xeroc out of it and focuses on the issue?  Xeroc is yet another person who busts his butt (and doesn't need to).

I get it fuzz...no Gut at Englesias, no place at Bitch-shares... I will try working on it for your satisfaction! I promise... I understand it will never be gut enough for your and or beyond (pun punt and whatever surely intended) but hey...someday your son might have to learn another language and I do hope he sees the same hostility!
Cheers!

It has nothing to do with language. You intentionally inserted Xeroc in there as though he was somehow part of the problem.  I don't know if I have the patience to try to explain it any further because for some reason you are giving me hostility over "hostility" that I do not think I have shown you. 


OK fuzz... I did not start it... he did:
" wish I had a clue and could trade like this too  :-\"
Which, btw, was in response to a comment by me not talking about trading skills but explaining that a man with half a brain (me) can take advantage of a screwed up system, mind you!

On which I quite innocently responded:
"I wish I could code like pro/you. "

?????

So who started it? ....Me?.... Sorry....  I did ? Sorry  Did I?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 10:56:33 am by tonyk2 »

Offline monsterer

hehe I thought I was a coder too...back in 1986 and again in 2007...
Proof to the contrary is available upon request!  :)

And I spell humor.... humour which is another good explanation, isn't it  :)

Well, Brits are known for their sarcasm, so that figures!
My opinions do not represent those of metaexchange unless explicitly stated.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline graffenwalder

I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because...  the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...
I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too  :-\

In the meantime I will stick with things I know best :) coding some python and doing support for free  ;D

I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... :(

So here is the perfect place to give an example of what you SHOULD say here Tony (if you want people to respect and listen to you). 
"I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... :("
could be:  "I wish I could get someone to understand that people like me who are shorting bitAssets into existence are also getting put in a place that puts too much risk to incentivize my doing so..."o

You see how this takes Xeroc out of it and focuses on the issue?  Xeroc is yet another person who busts his butt (and doesn't need to).

I get it fuzz...no Gut at Englesias, no place at Bitch-shares... I will try working on it for your satisfaction! I promise... I understand it will never be gut enough for your and or beyond (pun punt and whatever surely intended) but hey...someday your son might have to learn another language and I do hope he sees the same hostility!
Cheers!

It has nothing to do with language. You intentionally inserted Xeroc in there as though he was somehow part of the problem.  I don't know if I have the patience to try to explain it any further because for some reason you are giving me hostility over "hostility" that I do not think I have shown you. 

Can anyone here be a reality check for me and/or Tony?  Am I seeming hostile? 

Oh...and P.S. Tony, don't bring my son into anything you say please.  He is off limits in any discussion unless we are talking about cute babies.  But since you mentioned it, I have asked my wife to teach him of his culture and sincerely hope he learns the language from her because I am ashamed that in America we have largely been raised to really know only one language.  I have taught myself a little french along the way but it is a sore excuse compared to your command of the English language. :)
Reality check answer: I think you're being overly protective of BTS. And it comes across as though everybody who has doubts/critique about BTS is attacked. This is not only you, it's the culture of this forum. It has been this way since the beginning, far before there was even a mention of a merger.

Offline fuzzy

I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because...  the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...
I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too  :-\

In the meantime I will stick with things I know best :) coding some python and doing support for free  ;D

I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... :(

So here is the perfect place to give an example of what you SHOULD say here Tony (if you want people to respect and listen to you). 
"I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... :("
could be:  "I wish I could get someone to understand that people like me who are shorting bitAssets into existence are also getting put in a place that puts too much risk to incentivize my doing so..."

You see how this takes Xeroc out of it and focuses on the issue?  Xeroc is yet another person who busts his butt (and doesn't need to).

I get it fuzz...no Gut at Englesias, no place at Bitch-shares... I will try working on it for your satisfaction! I promise... I understand it will never be gut enough for your and or beyond (pun punt and whatever surely intended) but hey...someday your son might have to learn another language and I do hope he sees the same hostility!
Cheers!

It has nothing to do with language. You intentionally inserted Xeroc in there as though he was somehow part of the problem.  I don't know if I have the patience to try to explain it any further because for some reason you are giving me hostility over "hostility" that I do not think I have shown you. 

Can anyone here be a reality check for me and/or Tony?  Am I seeming hostile? 

Oh...and P.S. Tony, don't bring my son into anything you say please.  He is off limits in any discussion unless we are talking about cute babies.  But since you mentioned it, I have asked my wife to teach him of his culture and sincerely hope he learns the language from her because I am ashamed that in America we have largely been raised to really know only one language.  I have taught myself a little french along the way but it is a sore excuse compared to your command of the English language. :) 
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

zerosum

  • Guest
I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... :(

I thought you were a coder? That would at least go some way to explaining your incredibly dry sense of humour!

hehe I thought I was a coder too...back in 1986 and again in 2007...
Proof to the contrary is available upon request!  :)

And I spell humor.... humour which is another good explanation, isn't it  :)

zerosum

  • Guest
I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because...  the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...
I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too  :-\

In the meantime I will stick with things I know best :) coding some python and doing support for free  ;D

I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... :(

So here is the perfect place to give an example of what you SHOULD say here Tony (if you want people to respect and listen to you). 
"I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... :("
could be:  "I wish I could get someone to understand that people like me who are shorting bitAssets into existence are also getting put in a place that puts too much risk to incentivize my doing so..."

You see how this takes Xeroc out of it and focuses on the issue?  Xeroc is yet another person who busts his butt (and doesn't need to).

I get it fuzz...no Gut at Englesias, no place at Bitch-shares... I will try working on it for your satisfaction! I promise... I understand it will never be gut enough for your and or beyond (pun punt and whatever surely intended) but hey...someday your son might have to learn another language and I do hope he sees the same hostility!
Cheers!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 10:05:01 am by tonyk2 »

Offline fuzzy

I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because...  the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...
I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too  :-\

In the meantime I will stick with things I know best :) coding some python and doing support for free  ;D

I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... :(

So here is the perfect place to give an example of what you SHOULD say here Tony (if you want people to respect and listen to you). 
"I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... :("
could be:  "I wish I could get someone to understand that people like me who are shorting bitAssets into existence are also getting put in a place that puts too much risk to incentivize my doing so..."

You see how this takes Xeroc out of it and focuses on the issue?  Xeroc is yet another person who busts his butt (and doesn't need to). 
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline monsterer

I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... :(

I thought you were a coder? That would at least go some way to explaining your incredibly dry sense of humour!
My opinions do not represent those of metaexchange unless explicitly stated.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

zerosum

  • Guest
I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because...  the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...
I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too  :-\

In the meantime I will stick with things I know best :) coding some python and doing support for free  ;D

I wish I could code like pro/you. That way I would not have to give free advice or increase my position and to end up with more BTS but less money... :(

Offline bitmarley

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
    • View Profile
Is anyone aware of a useful help page for user who want to short with BitShares?

Offline inarizushi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 316
    • View Profile

Because the market rules suck for shorts. I lost near 25% of my BTS because of it.

Unless you lost specifically because of the bug, I dont think you lost due to the market rules.


The reason people lost BTS is because:

* Short bitUSD means being MARGIN LONG BTS.
* If you are MARGIN LONG anything, and that thing just goes down and down and down, you lose a huge chunk of it eventually when you get margin called.  Depending on your leverage, and how much it goes down, and the margin call, its quite possible to lose absolutely everything.


Many people here just do not have experience with margin.  If you just buy and hold something (like buy and hold BTS), it is okay to just never sell and hold no matter how much it goes down.

But if you are on margin you CANNOT do that.  You must have a stop loss and sell to cut your losses at soem point, or you will get margin called any lose it all.

Thats what happened in BTS.  People who have never been on margin before shorted bitUSD because they were bulish on BTS.  But instead BTS went down a lot, and they lost a huge amount of BTS.  So they think "this is bullshit", and they get mad, and they sell all their remaining BTS.


The problem is that shorting bitUSD was something that was really for professional traders to do, not for average BTS holders.  And yet a bunch of us normal BTS holders shorted bitUSD and got burned by margin.  (I didnt.  I got burned by margin in other things years back and will never use it again, so I have never shorted bitUSD). 


Anyways, I think that there are a lot of people out there who lost because of their margin position going against them, and are now blaming BTS.  Its not BTS' fault that thats how margin works.   If you bet on margin on are wrong, you have to lose your BTS, because your BTS is going to the people who own bitUSD, because that bitUSD is worth more BTS now.  Thats how it works.

Yeah, we all should have bought BitUSD instead of shorting them, how silly are we. Wait...

It's not that difficult to understand that you increase your exposition to BTS, you don't need to be a professional trader to understand that.
But here is what do sucks :
- you cannot cover with the collateral
- when you partially cover, you don't get the covered collateral. Obviously you should make numerous little short orders, but that's only obvious afterwards.
- the 10% rule after 30 days. Combined with the fact that nobody wants to short new bitAssets, this creates a sell pressure at 9.99% above the feed price when cove time happens

Today, supporting BTS means shorting some bitAssets so that people like me, who believed in all the vision and bull threads and kept shorting, could exit their short positions and get some rest, forget about al that shit, hodl those BTS and come back in a month with a smile without having to watch coinmarketcap.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
I, personally, increased the # of BTS I have by ~45% in the last month or so with no new money involved... and about 50% of that was because...  the market rules and attitude towards shorts sucks...
I wish I had a clue and could trade like this too  :-\

In the meantime I will stick with things I know best :) coding some python and doing support for free  ;D