Ripple fined

[blahblah7up]

decentralized market mirror   

Fabulous, is :

"blahblah7up"

your BTS address?

No.

BTS7wV5P8n5jVqo2AF5ycS2aX8aDXk9e2B85WFoyoJoJpYMQ6p7YW

Wow, thanx!

[davidpbrown]

Kennedy RIP

".." Rockefeller

@fuzzy: So.. what's your point?

[Big Government: Bad] AND [Small Government: Necessary]

The whole point of decentralisation is that power corrupts.. but there's no point making yourself impotent against real threats from organised groups. To ignore history would be foolish. Society is evolving but it is unrealistic to expect some discontinuity and a sudden jump to a perfect world in which individuals are not left unnecessarily vulnerable to the consequences of unreasonable selfish actions from others. Until people are educated well enough that they are strongly resistant to base impulses that adversing impact others, it is not reasonable to expect a chaotic free for all.

[montpelerin]

Yeah it's strange how Ripple has all these ex-politicos (ex-Obama advisor) and bankers yet they get fined on illegitimate charges.

A precedent with agreed upon solutions that many competitors will not be able to match (AML/KYC)?

Is everyone so sure that this is not something they sought out through back doors?

...and how long 'til they find a way to confiscate Ver's stake due to the "illegitimate" purchase? (He was into Ripple long before that 2013 purchase - I'm sure Ripple would love to have that stake back and purge Ver)

[kenCode]

Anyways for now it may be better to just ignore them

..or work on rendering the banksters, beaurocrats and other shills obsolete.
 
Have a pizza night with a friend, take your laptop and get them setup with the web wallet. Send them a little BTS and bitSILVER so they can see some yield.
 
Instead of protesting or fighting the beast, work as hard as you can to render it obsolete. #BitShares

[merivercap]

Yeah it's strange how Ripple has all these ex-politicos (ex-Obama advisor) and bankers yet they get fined on illegitimate charges.

I don't believe any federal regulatory agency has grounds for saying XRP is a 'virtual currency.'  There may be a lot of confusion and fabrications about legal definitions, but that's probably intentional.  Most federal institutions such as the IRS has ruled Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies a digital commodity.  They really can't deem anything other than digital forms of fiat currencies or legal tender 'virtual currencies.' 

If they did define 'cryptocurrencies' as 'currency' they would legitimize 'cryptocurrencies'.  Hence whether at the State level or Federal, no matter how hard governments try to define Bitcoin et al as 'virtual currencies' they will be in a quagmire and won't be able to regulate them unless they legitimize Bitcoin et al as legal tender and real currency. 

Hence the only strategy for regulatory agencies is to deem cryptocurrencies 'virtual currencies' in civil enforcement actions outside of courts to create fear hoping no one really takes them to court on what the legal definition of 'virtual currencies' is; that is that virtual currencies are legally defined to be digital forms of fiat currency. 

It would also be great to put pressure on these regulatory agencies.  Citizens and financial institutions should file a lawsuit against FinCEN and other regulatory organizations that shouldn't even exist.  Geez many of these agencies are authorized under the Patriot Act which you can easily challenge as unconstitutional.  Some of the provisions are laughable.  The suspicious activity reports (SARs) that financial institutions, lawyers, accountants etc are required to submit are a clear violation of the fourth amendment.  Also the government restricts financial advisors/lawyers/accountants from informing clients & customers about any SARs they have to report on the client.  That's a clear violation of the first amendment as well as client/attorney privilege.   

I don't trust the judgement of our current Supreme Court justices, but usually their rulings can't be too inconsistent with the US Constitution.  It might be good to get the ACLU involved or create some related organization to go after the Patriot Act and challenge these regulatory agencies .  I actually can't believe no one has yet challenged SARs & many of the Patriot Act provisions.  Anyways for now it may be better to just ignore them, but eventually some organization should mount a strategy to legally challenge these regulatory agencies.

[fuzzy]

[fuzzy]

Well it sure seems to be spooking people...  that is the response I'm seeing.  And it already is having a chilling effect. The fact is that we ultimately don't need the governments that, largely throughout history, are actually behind "terrorist" attacks...via false flags.

If gov really cared about us, we would have no NDAA, Patriot Act...etc and they would instead spend their time working on free energy and imprisoning banking cartels and shutting down the IRS--which would actually make us far safer and wealthy. They want to implement artificial scarcity and they know that cryptocurrency is the golden egg to tie all their Metadata together for ultimate control.

Given the financial and then economic crisis, I expect the West will have more interest in the upside of blockchain technology then ever the worry of the downside. So, they've gone after Ripple, so what; that was to be expected. That's not an error.. there's no point ignoring that society has an interest in frustrating crime.

Because they are not perfect, does not suggest Governments have no use. There are fundamental systemic errors but there are also good reasons that society has evolved to see representation of our interests by others. The notion that individuals can do everything for themselves, is libertarian fallacy. There is no prospect of individuals countering organised crime or nation state actors.. the idea those will dissolve is utopian ideal. Meanwhile, back in reality, the question is how do we get good representation of our interests and where is the appropriate limit on what is Government and what is not. Right now, Government is wildly off target, representing corporate interests and national interest above individuals.. ultimate irony for the US with its constitution perhaps.. but people forget how young the US is. The challenge is to recast the parameters that limit Government action.. and the best way to do that is protecting our own individual Privacy; Security; and Freedom.. hence my support for MaidSafe.

[davidpbrown]

Well it sure seems to be spooking people...  that is the response I'm seeing.  And it already is having a chilling effect. The fact is that we ultimately don't need the governments that, largely throughout history, are actually behind "terrorist" attacks...via false flags.

If gov really cared about us, we would have no NDAA, Patriot Act...etc and they would instead spend their time working on free energy and imprisoning banking cartels and shutting down the IRS--which would actually make us far safer and wealthy. They want to implement artificial scarcity and they know that cryptocurrency is the golden egg to tie all their Metadata together for ultimate control.

Given the financial and then economic crisis, I expect the West will have more interest in the upside of blockchain technology then ever the worry of the downside. So, they've gone after Ripple, so what; that was to be expected. That's not an error.. there's no point ignoring that society has an interest in frustrating crime.

Because they are not perfect, does not suggest Governments have no use. There are fundamental systemic errors but there are also good reasons that society has evolved to see representation of our interests by others. The notion that individuals can do everything for themselves, is libertarian fallacy. There is no prospect of individuals countering organised crime or nation state actors.. the idea those will dissolve is utopian ideal. Meanwhile, back in reality, the question is how do we get good representation of our interests and where is the appropriate limit on what is Government and what is not. Right now, Government is wildly off target, representing corporate interests and national interest above individuals.. ultimate irony for the US with its constitution perhaps.. but people forget how young the US is. The challenge is to recast the parameters that limit Government action.. and the best way to do that is protecting our own individual Privacy; Security; and Freedom.. hence my support for MaidSafe.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

This bit is very interesting:

Pursuant to the agreement, Ripple Labs will also undertake certain enhancements to the Ripple Protocol to appropriately monitor all future transactions.

Could regulators put pressure on Bytemaster & co to change the BitShares protocol? Of course the answer to that would be "the community has the source code and wouldnt accept those changes" (I would fork them out immediately).

Is the main difference that Ripple was selling the XRP themselves, so its not really centralized whereas BitShares isnt really owned/sold by any one group?

It helps to consider different classes of activity.
Done right, I would expect to see the following.. and it seems the UK perhaps is gearing up for this.
Ripple is clearly Class 2 below and no surprise from the fine, I would expect strict KYC and AML will be enforced on them.. quite right too.
BitShares atm is Class 3 and perhaps BTS could be considered Class 1.


Class 1: Money
# Would expect: No regulation or Government intervention needed here.

Class 2: Money transport
# Would expect: KYC and other consumer protection and the usual requirements for money transfer services, might be appropriate.

Class 3: Tokens with value pegged to match other assets
# Would expect: No regulation or Government intervention needed here.

Class 4: Tokens that are explicitly linked to real world assets
# Would expect: Government could help establish licensing and making the law clear and responsive in ways that help evidence and enforce the explicit link between digital token and asset.

Class 5: Zero value applications, such as private key signing.
# Would expect: No action at this time.


and then also, I've suggested before:
Class 2 and Class 4, could benefit from having a certain level of Government regulation and consumer protection. While digital currencies or tokens can represent value, it is only those explicitly linked to real world assets and wealth that need Government regulation and consumer protection. Blockchain technology, for all its acting in place of third party authority, cannot bridge the gap from the internet into the real world.

Class 1 and Class 3, needs no regulation by Government and would suffer from that. The exchange of those classes between people, might need to be acknowledged and understood by courts and in legislation. To be clear, the values within these digital currencies and pegged assets, are a private concern and it would be inappropriate and unnecessary for Government to interfere with those interests.

Good breakdown! 

[fuzzy]

This is all a game to frame the reality and force all other cryptos to change so the criminal cartels can "protect us" from a threat statistically less likely to cause harm tha  falling in the shower.  This models how other cryptos can "attain legitimacy".  This is a huge psyop imho.  Ironic it happens to be Ripple right after Obama ex advisor joins.

Ripple is centralized and therefore far more controllable...so then they can pivot and do what is "right"...which essentially means selling out to the principles of what crypto was meant to do.  If they would try this with far more decentralized cryptos...they would lose.  So they have to set the precedent and frame reality with something they have controlled from the beginning...

and the simple response to that is to make clear that Ripple is something different from real blockchain technology. It is closer to ye olde banking than Bitcoin. The XRP is just the water in which the transactions float.. it's a money transport, just like Western Union.

The value of digital tokens and the transfer of those, is more like cash and its value is a private concern. I don't think there's anything to worry about, aside from getting out of XRP .. the only winner will be the Ripple inc as they had relatively zero cost to create it. Give it 4-5 years and I'd expect BitShares will have replaced Ripple.

Well it sure seems to be spooking people...  that is the response I'm seeing.  And it already is having a chilling effect. The fact is that we ultimately don't need the governments that, largely throughout history, are actually behind "terrorist" attacks...via false flags.

If gov really cared about us, we would have no NDAA, Patriot Act...etc and they would instead spend their time working on free energy and imprisoning banking cartels and shutting down the IRS--which would actually make us far safer and wealthy. They want to implement artificial scarcity and they know that cryptocurrency is the golden egg to tie all their Metadata together for ultimate control.

[davidpbrown]

This is all a game to frame the reality and force all other cryptos to change so the criminal cartels can "protect us" from a threat statistically less likely to cause harm tha  falling in the shower.  This models how other cryptos can "attain legitimacy".  This is a huge psyop imho.  Ironic it happens to be Ripple right after Obama ex advisor joins.

Ripple is centralized and therefore far more controllable...so then they can pivot and do what is "right"...which essentially means selling out to the principles of what crypto was meant to do.  If they would try this with far more decentralized cryptos...they would lose.  So they have to set the precedent and frame reality with something they have controlled from the beginning...

and the simple response to that is to make clear that Ripple is something different from real blockchain technology. It is closer to ye olde banking than Bitcoin. The XRP is just the water in which the transactions float.. it's a money transport, just like Western Union.

The value of digital tokens and the transfer of those, is more like cash and its value is a private concern. I don't think there's anything to worry about, aside from getting out of XRP .. the only winner will be the Ripple inc as they had relatively zero cost to create it. Give it 4-5 years and I'd expect BitShares will have replaced Ripple.

[fuzzy]

As of 2015, Ripple is the second-largest cryptocurrency by market capitalization, after Bitcoin.

I bet it really pisses them off that they can't go after satoshi.

For additional lols, this means the US government is checking out coinmarketcap.com!

This is all a game to frame the reality and force all other cryptos to change so the criminal cartels can "protect us" from a threat statistically less likely to cause harm tha  falling in the shower.  This models how other cryptos can "attain legitimacy".  This is a huge psyop imho.  Ironic it happens to be Ripple right after Obama ex advisor joins.

Ripple is centralized and therefore far more controllable...so then they can pivot and do what is "right"...which essentially means selling out to the principles of what crypto was meant to do.  If they would try this with far more decentralized cryptos...they would lose.  So they have to set the precedent and frame reality with something they have controlled from the beginning...

As for the US gov as the bad guys...that is part of the psyop.  The banking cartels take control of the country via a buy out of all politicians judges they can control...create a nightmare, frame it so the freedoms we had are to blame and then create propaganda to make other countries come together against us.  Meanwhile, use policies like NAFTA to export jobs to countries with no protection for human rights, instate Cloward and Piven, bailout corrupt banking cartels to put the population even further in debt and incite race riots while the economy slowly fails....

Last push brings foreign troops to our shores from the BRICS nations and all nations signed onto the AIIB charter (or they lose their place and all the benefits)...to disarm us and potential potentially even intern them in hillary clintons' "fun camps".

Those are my "tin foil" thoughts...

[mike623317]

As of 2015, Ripple is the second-largest cryptocurrency by market capitalization, after Bitcoin.

I bet it really pisses them off that they can't go after satoshi.

For additional lols, this means the US government is checking out coinmarketcap.com!

LOL

[dna_gym]

BitShares - we're not a decentralized exchange, but a ___(1000BTS bounty)_________

decentralized unit transducer 

decentralized market mirror   

price exposure converter

[monsterer]

As of 2015, Ripple is the second-largest cryptocurrency by market capitalization, after Bitcoin.

I bet it really pisses them off that they can't go after satoshi.

For additional lols, this means the US government is checking out coinmarketcap.com!