Author Topic: LTB metions Bitshares with Ripple fiasco  (Read 8572 times)

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Offline fuzzy

What is really interesting to me here is that it seems that it could genuinely go both ways

This ^ is precisely why I still support, and always will support, DPoS chains that sharedrop on PTS/AGS/BTS holders.  To me it is equally as important to have chains that truly represent different philosophies of different demographics within the BitShares ecosystem--both now and as our population substantially grows in the future. 

We need to have many chains that are supported by many people and there needs to be a very easy means of transferring "citizenship" (aka ownership) from one to another.  This way if one chain doesn't move in the direction we believe it should, another can pop up to accommodate those who dislike the path the original chain has taken.  Then we can see, over time, which chain is actually most successful and can do so by considering many different metrics.  And we can be a citizen of all of them...to protect ourselves and those we love. 
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Offline CLains

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What is really interesting to me here is that it seems that it could genuinely go both ways, and what we do can end up deciding whether the system with network effect is one that allows free assets. In that sense we have a responsibility not just to ourselves, to sit on our high clean horse, but to do what is right determined by what will actually happen given our choices.

I hate utilitarianism as much as the next guy, but realize that submission to absolute principles in the face of exceptional, unique and complex events is to compromise our capacity for absolute, consciously determined choices, i.e. choices where all things are considered under one with true understanding.

Offline fuzzy

Chryspano, do you know why they want to limit cash payments to 70 Euro?
A stepping-stone to force people to use credit/debit cards so that their transactions can be spied on and to enforce capital controls so that the people cannot transfer their wealth outside of the country to avoid bail-ins and wealth confiscation.

If you're looking for the 'official' reason then it probably reads a little something like this:
'terror terror... bullshit bullshit... safety terror... terror... stand-together to protect our freedom against terror... by restricting freedom... terror terror, terror terror.... Terror4Cash 4eva... ban cash, ban terror!'

They said that because there is lot of tax avoidance this measure will help (so that they can spy on everyone as Permie said ), there was another try to enforce credit/debit usage by enforcing people who would use cash to pay 3% higher VAT, this had some constitutional issues and so they abandoned it. Banks are in a desperate position, no more fools to trust them.

The ultimate irony, to me, is that the Gold and Silver bug communities will fall lock-step in line with the agenda by hating and fighting against all Cryptocurrency advocates.  They will do so without ANY idea of the underlying differences between things like Bitcoin and Ripple compared to BitShares.  Because of this, BitShares holders will likely be forced to either fight alone against cryptos with no intrinsic innovation AND the Gold/Silver communities together, or join the entire cryptocurrency movement to fight against the "hard money" people.  Neither way ends well for us. 
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chryspano

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Chryspano, do you know why they want to limit cash payments to 70 Euro?
A stepping-stone to force people to use credit/debit cards so that their transactions can be spied on and to enforce capital controls so that the people cannot transfer their wealth outside of the country to avoid bail-ins and wealth confiscation.

If you're looking for the 'official' reason then it probably reads a little something like this:
'terror terror... bullshit bullshit... safety terror... terror... stand-together to protect our freedom against terror... by restricting freedom... terror terror, terror terror.... Terror4Cash 4eva... ban cash, ban terror!'

They said that because there is lot of tax avoidance this measure will help (so that they can spy on everyone as Permie said ), there was another try to enforce credit/debit usage by enforcing people who would use cash to pay 3% higher VAT, this had some constitutional issues and so they abandoned it. Banks are in a desperate position, no more fools to trust them.

Offline Permie

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Chryspano, do you know why they want to limit cash payments to 70 Euro?
A stepping-stone to force people to use credit/debit cards so that their transactions can be spied on and to enforce capital controls so that the people cannot transfer their wealth outside of the country to avoid bail-ins and wealth confiscation.

If you're looking for the 'official' reason then it probably reads a little something like this:
'terror terror... bullshit bullshit... safety terror... terror... stand-together to protect our freedom against terror... by restricting freedom... terror terror, terror terror.... Terror4Cash 4eva... ban cash, ban terror!'
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38PTSWarrior

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Chryspano, do you know why they want to limit cash payments to 70 Euro?

Offline fuzzy

...
Always remember...the current, fraudulen system currently in place WANTs physical currency banned...and will continue surveillance of everything we do in addition  (if we allow it) to all transactions.  Both of these together=the ultimate destruction of freedom.
...


In case some people don't already know, In Greece soon there will be a law for the Greek islands that prohibits the use of cash in transactions greater than 70 euros, if everything goes according to their plan they stated that they will enforce this law in all Greece, if this happens guess what will be the next step...

People like us will be considered unpopular to even speak about that soon enough. When the new digital "overseer" class* is super wealthy from crypto, they will gladly back laws that force people to use crypto.  Greed is a bitch of a thing and is something they can always depend on from the masses. 

I urge people to watch "looper".  It talks a great deal about what the future will look like...



*"In 1860 it was calculated that about 88 per cent of America's slave-owners owned twenty slaves or less. However, large landowners would usually own well over 100 slaves and relied heavily on overseers to run their plantations. These overseers were under considerable pressure from the plantation owners to maximize profits. They did this by bullying the slaves into increasing productivity."
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 04:54:36 am by fuzzy »
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chryspano

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...
Always remember...the current, fraudulen system currently in place WANTs physical currency banned...and will continue surveillance of everything we do in addition  (if we allow it) to all transactions.  Both of these together=the ultimate destruction of freedom.
...


In case some people don't already know, In Greece soon there will be a law for the Greek islands that prohibits the use of cash in transactions greater than 70 euros, if everything goes according to their plan they stated that they will enforce this law in all Greece, if this happens guess what will be the next step...


Offline fuzzy

I still personally believe the current system is as evil (and fraudulent) as it gets.  So I am only ok with supporting it's "legitimacy" as a way to create a Trojan horse to destroy it.

As far as adam goes, his mentioning it along with Ripple was quite obvious to me that many others would categorize bitshares along with ripple.  I'm not even quite sure any of them were wrong, but I do wish bm would have been there, which was why I brought it up.
Though I agree with BM'S ultimate point (about a free market requiring freedom for --both fraud and legitimate value creation) I still will fight the evil in that equation.  Anyone who is really paying attention will easily see the dangers that exist. 
Always remember...the current, fraudulen system currently in place WANTs physical currency banned...and will continue surveillance of everything we do in addition  (if we allow it) to all transactions.  Both of these together=the ultimate destruction of freedom.  So whether adam or the LTB crew are correct is yet to be seen.  I hope they are wrong...and there is only one way to ensure they are--to support true financial feedom.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 01:32:37 am by fuzzy »
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Offline Ander

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Perfect quip in the latest mumble after Fuzzy asks BM about the unfair situation of Adam comparing us with Ripple and BM straight away goes "I thought that was perfectly fair. They are comparing a feature of BitShares to the entirety of Ripple."


Awesome!  Well done BM.
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Offline CLains

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Perfect quip in the latest mumble after Fuzzy asks BM about the unfair situation of Adam comparing us with Ripple and BM straight away goes "I thought that was perfectly fair. They are comparing a feature of BitShares to the entirety of Ripple."

Offline Shentist

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Adam did good in presenting. I think his mind is more open

I see the need of this features (whitlisting,...) all the stuff "normal" companys need to move in their legal framework.

We should try every angle and it is right now not clear what will hit the mass adaption button of all blockchain technologys. So from my perspective it is much better to try as much as possible - bitAssets - delegates and privats : UIAs - whitlisting and not ....and so on. Why should we cripple anyone from the beginning? The problem today is, that you have nothing to choose and in this way we should conquer more pathes to choose for everyone. This will increase the value to everyone.

Offline fuzzy

It's too much to ask people who aren't heavily involved with BitShares to see this.
100% agreed except in this case.  If he doesn't know all the details he shouldn't put us beside ripple.  He has done this as a recurring theme nearly every chance he gets.
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Offline hadrian

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It seemed to me that Adam B. Levine was much more favorable towards BitShares than Stephanie or Andreas.
Having said that, Stephanie and Andreas were commenting on BitShares based on specific information presented by Adam.
Because there was ambiguity, it could be argued that the information was correct. I think it was only correct for a subset of types of User Issued Asset though. It wasn't correct for BTS, BitUSD (or any BitAsset), or those User Issued Assets which don't allow whitelisting.

I think it's a case of lack of knowledge of BitShares. It'll be good once BitShares gets to a point where the more fundamental aspects have been solidly decided upon. Then people will be able to get to grips with it, and maybe it'll become more widely appreciated.

The potential of BitShares is much bigger than originally envisioned. It will essentially be a platform with inbuilt tools for people to use as they wish. It will enable innovation and entrepreneurship in many fields from social to financial, from personal to big business.

It's too much to ask people who aren't heavily involved with BitShares to see this. Especially when things are so turbulent whilst things are revised optimized. Especially when there are so many other projects going on outside BitShares.
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Offline fuzzy

They have their facts wrong (like most media does).
Arguable this is not too difficult with BitShares having a grown system and an out-dated wiki. This will hopefully change in near future with 'official' documentation published by the core devs!

ABL has long been a staunch supporter of bitshares. I'm sure he meant only the highest of regards.  I mean his very history here should prove so. But all joking aside...I (kind of) see where his criticism could be consideed valid.   Though it is obvious bitcoin doesn't fix any of the problems they bring up. ..

My experience is that adam doesn't waste any opportunities to throw BitShares under the bus,  but at the same time he is the first to want us to give him attention and content. Imho he should debate this point if he is so adamant.  But that would just be too difficult. Far easier to pretend something is the truth.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2015, 10:58:55 am by fuzzy »
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