Author [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] [EN] [ZH] [ES] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [TR] [SR] [AR] [RU] Topic: Loyalty Rewards Program  (Read 1018 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bytemaster

Loyalty Rewards Program
« on: May 11, 2015, 02:00:11 PM »

Someone proposed this idea to me and I wanted to present it for general discussion:

1.  Assume a worker was elected and had a fixed daily budget
2.  Assume the worker used their daily budget to pay people to lock up their funds for 1 year.
3.  Assume the worker prioritized users by who was willing to lock up the most funds for the least reward

Under such a system, funds are taken out of circulation increasing the price in the short term.  Everyone who is a long-term holder should be competing to lock up their funds leaving only those who value liquidity more than the reward holding the liquid coins.   

In general this should lock up 10 to 20x more funds than it would release via dilution and if the program is "maintained" would certainly reduce the liquid supply for many years.   In effect, it could more than counter all dilution for at least 1 year after the program is voted out.

The key points are this:
1. No extra dilution
2. Everything shareholder approved

Those that lose under this program are those who "hold for years" but don't participate.   Everyone else benefits.   In other words, those who "might want liquidity but never use their liquidity" end up slightly diluted after many years.

Anyway, I just wanted to remind everyone of the policy of all such spending being subject to shareholder approval and that I am committed to not increasing the dilution rate or long term supply.  Merely trying to give us tools to empower you all.   

Feedback appreciated.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline hrossik

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 36
    • View Profile
Re: Loyalty Rewards Program
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2015, 02:20:08 PM »
I think most of the people, who preferred liquidity, already left. People, who want BitShares to succeed, will hold anyway. Do we need to reward them (us)? Would it help the market if known amount of BTS was locked?
BTS: hr0550

Offline davidpbrown

Re: Loyalty Rewards Program
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2015, 02:34:10 PM »
I know little about financial instruments but is this not just an idea to create fix term 'Bonds'?

What price for a short term price rise?.. Is that just another 100% delegate, created to pay those rewards?.. All very well for the whales but us mere mortals curse at the FED for similar.. might that be then seen as a solution Ben Bernanke would endorse.. how about fixing the economy rather than printing mo money eh?.. perhaps we can do better than rewarding the rich, so the rich get richer? BitShares already suffers from a perception that those with delegates are accruing a tonne of BTS.

I'd prefer to see solid steps that build confidence, rather than reward loyalty and frankly those who are for the most part insiders. I'll keep suggesting put in place those elements that instil confidence.. a regular robust review of who is getting paid delegates - and making those business cases highly visible; milestones; a clear list of what is unique about BitShares; a Mission statement; a Vision statement.. etc etc. Once you've got those, they'll act as a great attractor and a catalyst that will make any marketing more effective.

Price rises follow from an influx of investment. If current investors are tapped out, then find new audiences or expand on the types of audience you already attract.

Such change as will affect investment are solid change - get some new devs on board - partner with some project that is struggling and make both sides stronger.. Omni/Mastercoin looks weak, I don't know if they have devs looking to jump or partner. Other tough steps will make a difference too.. legislation .. partnering with ambitious forward thinking tech like Overstock.

The idea in the OP might help if that is proposed as something familiar like Bonds.. perhaps that is a very good idea.. sell long term 2;3;5;10 year bonds.. but then I wonder those who might be interested, could be those who would support you for free.. angels.. do they exist? :)
฿://1CBxm54Ah5hiYxiUtD7JGYRXykT5Z6ZuMc

Offline Empirical1.2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1366
    • View Profile
Re: Loyalty Rewards Program
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2015, 02:58:40 PM »
This sounds similar to a fixed term deposit.

- Like a fixed term deposit, charge a hefty early withdrawal penalty fee which will help offset the cost to the DAC

- If possible incorporate a voting requirement in the lock + unlocking process so that it also has the benefit of increasing voting participation

Most importantly allow BitAssets to take part in the loyalty rewards program too.

https://changemoney.org/  As BitReserve understands, investors are primarily evaluating & extrapolating the BitAsset adoption trend.
Third party services and merchants will also be looking primarily to the size and growth of BitAssets to determine whether it's worth integrating and interacting with BitShares. 

Locking up supply is positive but if you were to use dilution in this manner increasing voting participation and most importantly driving existing shareholders to maximise their BitAsset use would be far more valuable.

If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline NewMine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
    • View Profile
Re: Loyalty Rewards Program
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2015, 03:05:28 PM »
Does "Worker" mean an elected delegate being paid in inflated "new" shares?

If so, you are just paying an inactivity interest while supply still increases. Thus changing nothing in terms of price perception to a BTS.

Offline NewMine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 549
    • View Profile
Re: Loyalty Rewards Program
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2015, 03:08:50 PM »
A real "loyalty Program" would be something like the more you use BTS and the Assets the cheaper your fees get.

Offline Chronos

Re: Loyalty Rewards Program
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2015, 03:17:38 PM »
This feels like a gimmick to me. Imagine if it were proposed on the bitcoin blockchain. People would say, "That isn't what bitcoin is for."

I say, "This isn't what BTS is for."

Offline mint chocolate chip

Re: Loyalty Rewards Program
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2015, 03:19:36 PM »
Maybe consider following through on the other program you started 4 months ago. Besides the paid delegates, the other referrers on the list have been loyally getting new accounts signed up and have not been rewarded.

Offline luckybit

Re: Loyalty Rewards Program
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2015, 03:26:43 PM »
Someone proposed this idea to me and I wanted to present it for general discussion:

1.  Assume a worker was elected and had a fixed daily budget
2.  Assume the worker used their daily budget to pay people to lock up their funds for 1 year.
3.  Assume the worker prioritized users by who was willing to lock up the most funds for the least reward

Under such a system, funds are taken out of circulation increasing the price in the short term.  Everyone who is a long-term holder should be competing to lock up their funds leaving only those who value liquidity more than the reward holding the liquid coins.   

In general this should lock up 10 to 20x more funds than it would release via dilution and if the program is "maintained" would certainly reduce the liquid supply for many years.   In effect, it could more than counter all dilution for at least 1 year after the program is voted out.

The key points are this:
1. No extra dilution
2. Everything shareholder approved

Those that lose under this program are those who "hold for years" but don't participate.   Everyone else benefits.   In other words, those who "might want liquidity but never use their liquidity" end up slightly diluted after many years.

Anyway, I just wanted to remind everyone of the policy of all such spending being subject to shareholder approval and that I am committed to not increasing the dilution rate or long term supply.  Merely trying to give us tools to empower you all.   

Feedback appreciated.

I endorse. It looks like a good idea if you believe you can implement it.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

zerosum

  • Guest
Re: Loyalty Rewards Program
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2015, 03:27:26 PM »
In short - totally useless idea.


 1. The hodlers are holding anyway, locked or unlocked.
So you will end up where you started - the holders are now holding (just in a lock state) and the sellers are selling just as before.

 2. The hoped for 10x-20x of the dilution is totally overstated. Obviously you mean the delegate produced dilution and not the merger one. The latter is the important one, but 10x of it is more than 100% of total shares so you are not talking about it obviously.

So the aim is 50-100Mil BTS locked? First the number is insignificantly small. Second, For what interest rate do you expect this result. 1 delegated will 'absorb' the dilution of 33 full pay delegates at 3.33% annually. Right now anyone interested in that can short bitUSD to themselves and the interest is for very flexible terms => this interest is not attractive at all.

So to sum it up - putting development time and effort (much needed elsewhere) to give unattractive yield to he one that already holding long term (and to change nothing about the sellers/bears), so you can show a small amount held long term is a totally unnecessary exercise.

Offline lastagile

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Loyalty Rewards Program
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2015, 03:33:49 PM »
Do no come up so many idea. focus on develop


从我的 iPhone 发送,使用 Tapatalk

zerosum

  • Guest
Re: Loyalty Rewards Program
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2015, 03:37:43 PM »
This feels like a gimmick to me. Imagine if it were proposed on the bitcoin blockchain. People would say, "That isn't what bitcoin is for."

I say, "This isn't what BTS is for."

I am surprised you do not like it?! It is one for one how Nushares pays interest for holders to park their Nubits....so I expected more enthusiasm from you... :)

Offline sittingduck

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 246
    • View Profile
Re: Loyalty Rewards Program
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2015, 04:05:38 PM »

Do no come up so many idea. focus on develop


从我的 iPhone 发送,使用 Tapatalk

He didn't come up with the idea, just presenting it on behalf of another so we could review it and bytemaster could avoid thinking about it after we dismantle it. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Offline BunkerChain Labs

Re: Loyalty Rewards Program
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2015, 04:34:44 PM »
Doesn't sound exciting or attractive.

Lets move on to another idea.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
www.Peerplays.com | World's First Decentralized Tournament Platform Built Entirely on the Blockchain!
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

 

Google+