Author Topic: BitShares needs a professional SEO/SEP Delegate... oh, and WHALES.  (Read 21567 times)

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Offline Ander

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Yes we absolutely need an SEO expert helping Bitshares.

Don't listen to Stan saying issues will soon be moot.  Thats what he said last october/november, and the community happily sat there waiting, and then nothing happened. 
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Offline Ander

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I think 3% delegates are making about $15 per month right now so I wouldn't expect more from them then signing blocks and keeping their version up to date.
Yeah, 3% delegates are below breakeven on running a server right now.  The whole point of a 3% delegate is that we should only judge them producing blocks correctly (and decentralization, etc).
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Offline Agent86

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I think 3% delegates are making about $15 per month right now so I wouldn't expect more from them then signing blocks and keeping their version up to date.


Offline Chuckone

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Another one of the 17+ recurring issues that are about to become moot.
 :)

Why is that Stan?

A little of the not-yet-disclosed secret sauce still simmering on the cooktop and voilà!

Offline kenCode

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Another one of the 17+ recurring issues that are about to become moot.
 :)

Why is that Stan?
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Offline Stan

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It takes MONTHS to get your alexa up.
We have so much to offer that doesn't require any media too, subjects like decentralized dns, or:
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+to+form+a+DAC
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+to+decentralize+my+company
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=why+should+I+decentralize+my+company
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=crypto+trading+without+government+risk
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=crypto+trading+with+less+government+risk
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+to+avoid+the+bail-ins
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+to+protect+my+wealth+from+bank+runs
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+to+financially+survive+without+a+bank
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=list+the+best+paying+savings+accounts
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+to+send+money+to+ukraine
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=are+my+crypto+coins+safe
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+do+I+save+for+my+kids+education
 
Our image SUCKS.
Nobody knows we exist.
 
We have 101 Delegates too! 101!!
 
I ran some reports on github. You've got like 10 really active Delegates coding in there. Yes, 10.
Another 30 Delegates appear to be off and on coding.
Fuzzy is his own beast, everyone knows he works his ass off.
That leaves roughly 60 people getting paid to do what for us? Run a node?
When their node is running, what else are they doing to entice a WHALE?
 
We need ALL HANDS ON DECK.
I REFUSE to show any wall street brokers, bankers or wealth protection firms BitShares right now. (you know, WHALES). Why?
 
Our image SUCKS.
Nobody knows we exist.
 
When you build a successful company, you hit the ground running and you grit your teeth and you fire your big guns every single day! You grab every body you  can, you put their asses to work and you show them the returns of their hard work.

Unfortunately, the grassroots volunteer initiatives by almost everyone dried up when the marketing delegate thing happened and when the bulk marketing discussion was moved off of bitsharestalk for so called privacy reasons.
People will naturally not work for free while other 'marketers' are being paid by the blockchain for their efforts.  This dichotomy has taken a toll on marketing numbers, we now expect a selected few marketing delegates to shoulder the load which has not worked out very well. We have little to no daily presence on bitcointalk or reddit, we have only a handful of related websites, no social media presence outside of the bitshares operated ones and the number of new account sign-ups per day has been going down since the beginning http://bitsharesblocks.com/charts/accounts. The one thing that partially motivated me as a 'volunteer' who has spent about $100 and over 100 hours developing two bitshares related domains was the referral system, which unfortunately appears abandoned except as a means to see how few sign-ups our 'marketers' actually get https://faucet.bitshares.org/refscoreboard.

Another one of the 17+ recurring issues that are about to become moot.
 :)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract of any kind.   These are merely my opinions which I reserve the right to change at any time.

Offline kenCode

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It will be great if you manage to complete this roster list. It's absolutely essential to have it publicly available (maybe on the bitsharesblocks website?).
You have my vote, ken.

Thank you jakub :)
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Offline kenCode

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For this, we should have like Ken suggested, a table of all 101 delegates, links to their proposals and updates and what each one of them is up to.

I got started on the Roster this morning too (like I've got nothing better to do).
An accountability roster: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hh8jgvruJmWm4UDRJSSdz3rUqBDDEQWfjzMwJUI3z1o/edit#gid=0
I'll add more names to it in the coming days.
Also a BitShares Annoucement on Bitcointalk could be nice. Though I think we should wait for the new documentation and infographics to be released. But we shouldn't forget about this. Also probably a to-do list? Like stuff people find and add that could be done later and also stuff we're waiting for. I.e, have the new documentation ready and contact the nasdaq guys since they're checking out blockchain tech; infographics; shorts bug in the client, etc
edit: cant edit the document apparently

Ok, I changed the perms from comment to edit. You never know who you can trust to, so I hope we keep this professional. This document can serve all of us if it's done right. Sort it however you like.
I'd put the hardest workers at the top though.
kenCode - Decentraliser @ Agorise
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jakub

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I got started on the Roster this morning too (like I've got nothing better to do).
An accountability roster: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hh8jgvruJmWm4UDRJSSdz3rUqBDDEQWfjzMwJUI3z1o/edit#gid=0
I'll add more names to it in the coming days.
It will be great if you manage to complete this roster list. It's absolutely essential to have it publicly available (maybe on the bitsharesblocks website?).
You have my vote, ken.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 03:55:13 pm by jakub »

Offline Permie

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Functions need to be better delegated, maybe, 3-5 guy team to handle the web sites, make them pretty and updated with info. This includes the wiki page, infographics, videos, etc

Another team to write articles, do interviews, marketing stuff, etc

then delagate Y and X with side projects like minebitshares, bunkershares, limewallet, etc

and the rest developing the client.

That way we don't have the same people doing multiple stuff at the same time, loosing time and resources. Meaning we should optimize development. I don't know if that's what happens but I'm under the idea it does. People loose too much time with stuff that don't matter or stuff that someone else could be doing and ends up consuming his time. I trust the devs, I'm just under the idea that things are not that organized.

For this, we should have like Ken suggested, a table of all 101 delegates, links to their proposals and updates and what each one of them is up to.

I think this should tie in to the Paid Workers Proposal.
In another thread I suggest a way that Delegate tasks be easily monitored and other aspects of development could be opened up to the free market.

I am aware that BitShares is still in the startup stage itself and that the delegate system may be sufficient to perform these tasks if the market cap increases but I'm not sure access to information is easy enough and at the very least I think the delegate system should have an 'about me', 'here's what I'm doing' and for unelected delegates an official client based platform for pitching themselves to the shareholders.

====================================================================
TL;DR:
Shareholders can't be relied upon to donate to development funds but they need control over how much development funding the blockchain provides and who receives it.
Separation of community/company maintenance (Delegates) and core development.
Delegates compete to act as maintainers of the blockchain and as the human element to DAC decision making.
Core development could be funded by contracts between the shareholders and developers.
Devs propose development and a pay schedule. Shareholders pay into proposal-specific funds as they see fit and development starts once a given pledge-threshold is met.
These proposals are contracts to complete a given task within a stated timeframe for a price acceptable to the shareholders.


Here is a hypothetical scenario I hope will illustrate how this could work.

I unlock my bitshares wallet and see that I have 500 cds (core-dev-shares) and navigate to the 'Development Proposals' tab. 1 cds = 1 bts but can only be spent per the terms of a core development contract. These core-dev-shares are perhaps the dilutionary funds that used to go to just Delegates.
I see that Invictus Innovations has a proposal for bitAssets 2.0. The team claim it will take 2 months and are asking for 200k bts and $2k bitUSD upfront with a 5M bts completion-'bounty'. Of this 5M bts, 2.5M will be held in escrow for 1 year and 2.5M will be converted to bitUSD on a weekly basis from the start of development until depleted. The team promises to provide proof of progress to
the community and expects Delegates to scrutinise the details.
Underneath this proposal I see that two delegates I trust have evaluated the proposal and interviewed Invictus Innovations and conclude that they think it is a proposal worthy of investment. One delegate has provided an .mp3 file to his 'town hall' interview and another has convinced me that the economic reasoning holds up. The proposal also has a 90% Delegate recommendation rating.
I am now a reassured and confident shareholder so pledge 60% of my 500 cds to this proposal.
I see Moonstone is nearly funded so I send another 20% there.
But I also notice that ByteMaster has another great proposal but doesn't have the time to implement it right now. It's a minor feature not worth the time yet. He has requested an exorbitant fee to prioritise this work over his spare time but I'm sure he expects someone else to pitch for a much lower cost.
I see underneath that 'script.kiddie' has already offered to whip up the code for just $500 bitUSD with a 5k bts royalty fee to be paid to bytemaster. I pledge some more of my 500 cds and see it is instantly converted to bitUSD at market price.

A month later I come back to my wallet to check my cds balance. Script.kiddie has the new feature running smoothly but I see that another project he proposed didn't get funded within the time-window and the 50 cds that I pledged has been refunded to me to allocate to other projects.

I think that trying to merge the two distinct 'departments' of core development and efficient company maintenance stifles innovation and diversity in both departments.
Delegates should get paid for being delegates and core development teams should pitch and get paid solely for contracted tasks completed.

In order to ensure max decentralization of our DAC the shareholders need to actively participate in all aspects of the DAC.
As we are all humans with short attention spans these decisions need to be spoon-fed to us. The easier it is to participate, the more shareholders we get to take part.
If anything is complicated or hard to evaluate, participation will drop off sharply.

Groups of humans are known for witch hunts so we should make sure that when these happen they do not spill over into unrelated areas of the DAC.
For example; if a mob gets stirred up to oust a delegate providing a slow price feed then we need to be certain that there won't be any collateral damage. So delegates cannot also be responsible for funding core development.

Taulant and Moonstone have stated that they aim to demonstrate their worth by taking on risk and offering the shareholders the opportunity to invest by buying their product (their code) and having them open-source it. Could core devs take a similar approach?

Data and necessary info needs to be compiled by the DAC for presentation to the shareholders so they can make informed decisions.

Delegates need to be easily evaluated with a quick look at a list of statistics. Delegate pay should pay for the efficient running of delegate tasks only.
Core development needs to be pitched to the shareholders in a modular fashion and opened up to the free market – I propose by way of a crowd sale system.
Dev teams need to show their goals and code needs to be written in a way that allows numerous parties to add to the codebase over time. A clear list of tasks to be completed allows separate dev teams to pitch separate projects. The shareholders can then fund development as quickly or as gradually as they wish. Projects won't overlap so less time is wasted, and potential dev teams know that they will get paid for the work they do.

Startups who want to set up businesses directly on the BitShares blockchain could also share this coredev proposal system to get funding. Bts shareholders could be encouraged to direct their core-dev-shares to their proposal by getting voting rights in the business and a share of future profits proportional to their stake or perhaps even as loan repayments.
The proposals that get funded would reflect the views of the shareholders. The proportion of core development vs. start-up 'VC funding' style proposals that get funded will most likely change over time as the ecosystem develops.

Shareholders who are delegates could also pitch for core development tasks if they are so inclined but shareholders need to be able to quickly see who is doing the job for which they are specifically being paid for.

For delegates this should mean that shareholders can view a list of hard stats that accurately tell them who is performing well and who isn't.
These stats include:
Uptime
Block propagation
Average time per price feed (possibly broken down per asset – this could be displayed next to a measure of volatility of the specified asset for a fair assessment.)
Other clear cut and useful stats.
A percentage of how many successfully funded core-dev proposals the delegate reviewed and advised on.
Delegates should also be responsible for being oracles on contracts between the shareholders/DAC and core development teams. They are the human element of the DAC so should evaluate the viability of core development proposals and also check-in on project progress.  Delegates would have no authority to stop shareholders funding unrealistic proposals but should use their reputation to serve the shareholders in an advisory capacity.


Instead of funding core dev with dilution, those block rewards could be sent proportionally to each account by their holdings. The funds could be held in some kind of multisig account that allows them to only be spent by contributing to core dev project proposal crowd sales.

Proposals for core development could be published in a separate section of the core wallet in a way that acts to 'crowd sale' the proposed project.
It costs a nominal fee to publish these ideas to avoid bloat and make it easier for shareholders to assess less options. These proposals are contracts to complete a given task within a stated timeframe for a price acceptable to the shareholders.

Core Dev Proposals contain:
A summary of the problems aiming to be solved, what the finished product will look like/do and why/how it will work
a timeline
A fee structure. Perhaps an upfront fee and a recurring payment schedule or an on-completion bounty.
Proposals can also be published with the expectation that someone other than the author will bid to actually compete the task.  Devs who wish the implement someone else's idea can include a royalty payment in their proposal. 'Fund us and we'll pay 10kbts to the author as a royalty.'
This 'royalty' is voluntary but encourages 'ideas people' to promote their ideas to establish themselves in the community to increase the likelihood they'll get a royalty and as a consequence more people hear about the best proposals.
The author of a proposal may also be a large stakeholder with lots of funds to pledge to a developer team to implement their idea, so devs may want to attract this 'VC money' and so offer a symbolic/generous royalty.

The party can then pitch themselves to the shareholders on why they should get this contract. For example:

'We propose to implement BM's proposal for bitAssets 2.0. Upfront we require: 10kbts, £2kbitUSD, 5M bts to be held in escrow until completion except each month 0.5 bitGold is paid out from the fund.'

These proposals accomplish:
Separation of DAC maintenance and DAC development
Open-sourcing of ideas for core development. If a proposal contains a good idea but asks for too much funding, other parties are able to promise the same project for an alternative payment schedule.
A direct relationship between the shareholders and core development incorporated into the DAC itself.
An opportunity for projects willing to build businesses around bts to get access to donations or loans.
The ability for development and businesses working around BitShares to increase as fast as shareholders are willing to pay.
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Offline Akado

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For this, we should have like Ken suggested, a table of all 101 delegates, links to their proposals and updates and what each one of them is up to.

You're right on the money Akado.
 
I got started on the Roster this morning too (like I've got nothing better to do).
An accountability roster: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hh8jgvruJmWm4UDRJSSdz3rUqBDDEQWfjzMwJUI3z1o/edit#gid=0
I'll add more names to it in the coming days.

You're sorting it out by pay rate? Ok. I'll check it out and add what I can this weekend.

Also a BitShares Annoucement on Bitcointalk could be nice. Though I think we should wait for the new documentation and infographics to be released. But we shouldn't forget about this. Also probably a to-do list? Like stuff people find and add that could be done later and also stuff we're waiting for. I.e, have the new documentation ready and contact the nasdaq guys since they're checking out blockchain tech; infographics; shorts bug in the client, etc

edit: cant edit the document apparently
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 03:44:35 pm by Akado »
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Offline kenCode

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For this, we should have like Ken suggested, a table of all 101 delegates, links to their proposals and updates and what each one of them is up to.

You're right on the money Akado.
 
I got started on the Roster this morning too (like I've got nothing better to do).
An accountability roster: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hh8jgvruJmWm4UDRJSSdz3rUqBDDEQWfjzMwJUI3z1o/edit#gid=0
I'll add more names to it in the coming days.
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Matrix/Keybase/Hive/Commun/Github: @Agorise
www.PalmPay.chat

Offline mint chocolate chip

It takes MONTHS to get your alexa up.
We have so much to offer that doesn't require any media too, subjects like decentralized dns, or:
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+to+form+a+DAC
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+to+decentralize+my+company
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=why+should+I+decentralize+my+company
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=crypto+trading+without+government+risk
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=crypto+trading+with+less+government+risk
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+to+avoid+the+bail-ins
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+to+protect+my+wealth+from+bank+runs
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+to+financially+survive+without+a+bank
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=list+the+best+paying+savings+accounts
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+to+send+money+to+ukraine
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=are+my+crypto+coins+safe
https://www.google.com/webhp?ion=1&espv=2#q=how+do+I+save+for+my+kids+education
 
Our image SUCKS.
Nobody knows we exist.
 
We have 101 Delegates too! 101!!
 
I ran some reports on github. You've got like 10 really active Delegates coding in there. Yes, 10.
Another 30 Delegates appear to be off and on coding.
Fuzzy is his own beast, everyone knows he works his ass off.
That leaves roughly 60 people getting paid to do what for us? Run a node?
When their node is running, what else are they doing to entice a WHALE?
 
We need ALL HANDS ON DECK.
I REFUSE to show any wall street brokers, bankers or wealth protection firms BitShares right now. (you know, WHALES). Why?
 
Our image SUCKS.
Nobody knows we exist.
 
When you build a successful company, you hit the ground running and you grit your teeth and you fire your big guns every single day! You grab every body you  can, you put their asses to work and you show them the returns of their hard work.

Unfortunately, the grassroots volunteer initiatives by almost everyone dried up when the marketing delegate thing happened and when the bulk marketing discussion was moved off of bitsharestalk for so called privacy reasons.
People will naturally not work for free while other 'marketers' are being paid by the blockchain for their efforts.  This dichotomy has taken a toll on marketing numbers, we now expect a selected few marketing delegates to shoulder the load which has not worked out very well. We have little to no daily presence on bitcointalk or reddit, we have only a handful of related websites, no social media presence outside of the bitshares operated ones and the number of new account sign-ups per day has been going down since the beginning http://bitsharesblocks.com/charts/accounts. The one thing that partially motivated me as a 'volunteer' who has spent about $100 and over 100 hours developing two bitshares related domains was the referral system, which unfortunately appears abandoned except as a means to see how few sign-ups our 'marketers' actually get https://faucet.bitshares.org/refscoreboard.

Offline Akado

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You can easily place a background video on a webpage. You can even choose videos from youtube if im not mistaken. That should be pretty easy and bam! You have a site just like ripple. I admit it would look better yes, but it's not like it takes a huge tool to do it.

Functions need to be better delegated, maybe, 3-5 guy team to handle the web sites, make them pretty and updated with info. This includes the wiki page, infographics, videos, etc

Another team to write articles, do interviews, marketing stuff, etc

then delagate Y and X with side projects like minebitshares, bunkershares, limewallet, etc

and the rest developing the client.

That way we don't have the same people doing multiple stuff at the same time, loosing time and resources. Meaning we should optimize development. I don't know if that's what happens but I'm under the idea it does. People loose too much time with stuff that don't matter or stuff that someone else could be doing and ends up consuming his time. I trust the devs, I'm just under the idea that things are not that organized.

For this, we should have like Ken suggested, a table of all 101 delegates, links to their proposals and updates and what each one of them is up to.

I too don't know what 101 delegates are doing. They should all be producing and slowly delivering but it seems only a handful of them are doing so. I can count ~51 delegates with a 3% pay rate. It might just be me and maybe im not considering all options, but it I guess I would prefer more delegates with a higher pay rate developing, than 51 delegates doing nothing. I mean, obviously they are doing something (or at least, they should), but a 3% delegate just cannot keep up with the other 100% delegates. How can a 3% delegate work the same amount of hours and deliver the same? He just can't. There are multiple delegates belonging to teh same entity, I recognize, no problem. But still, there is such a high amount of 3% delegates that I just don't even hear about. That's the problem. I don't even know what they're up to. Signing blocks?

The problem here is that for the amount of 3% delegates we have, we should hear more about them. I dont care if they are 3 or 1%, as long as they contribute to something, but unfortunately it's always the same people delivering, which are way less than 51. And I hear about them constantly. What about the other 51? Shouldn't they be more active? Provide more feedback and updates? They might be taking the spot away from a 100% delegate or whatever, that could deliver way more.

If I'm wrong or missing something, feel free to correct me please.
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