Author Topic: MAKE DPOS HISTORY - VOTE! for MineBitShares AKA BunkerMining Project!  (Read 30649 times)

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Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

Most excellent! Congrats and success for the mining and beyond user-magnet minebitshares!

Thank you.. Our victory was short lived unfortunately.

Within a matter of hours the dead delegate btc38.com.crypto-exchange retook the position we had gained in the 101.

Keep voting folks!

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38PTSWarrior

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Most excellent! Congrats and success for the mining and beyond user-magnet minebitshares!

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

WOW.. today for the 1st time we made DPOS HISTORY!!

ALL 6 of our delegates were voted in!

This will mean with all the updates we are bringing to the pool we will be able to drive more volume and users to mining bitshares and generate more liquidity for ALL the major BitAssets like NEVER BEFORE!

Thanks to everyone for your continued support!

If you are wondering why our bid included these delegates you are welcome to review our bid and see all it takes.

We also posted a recent update of programming that is NOW being done to allow the pool to grow much further and support all BitAssets!

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18253.0.html

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Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

@delulo: I appreciate what DataSecurityNode is trying to accomplish, but I also applaud your efforts to assure funds are being used as wisely as possible.  And although I understand that with 2.0 there will be greater scrutiny and accountability (hopefully helped along by DposHub), I agree that it makes sense to scrutinize as much as possible now.  Having said that, I wonder if you are able to tally all BTS currently being paid to non-dev delegates above the 3% pay rate.  I am curious what the current total daily (non-dev) dilution may be.  Are you able to do that calculation? 


Much appreciated!
What I'd like to see is a calculation /estiamte based on the numbers that have been generated up to now. Amount of funds used vs amount of transaction fees generated (plus possibly estimate over future tx fees). Such a calculation / numbers are much more objective than all the texting we are doing here...
Thanks!
Looking at this http://bitsharesblocks.com/delegates (+ sort by pay rate), roughly 40% of delegates (very roughly) are marketing delegates of some sort which imo is way to high given  that we have a wallet that is unusable and we would be marketing a version of bitshares which is inferior to what we finally aim for (bitshares 2.0). If someone wants to market the idea / concept of bitshares then I'd say it is much more powerful to do that while having a powerful and working client that can showcase the theory.

For anybody who is following this thread, this discussion is actually continuing in another thread in MineBitShares area:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18253.msg233450.html#msg233450
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Offline santaclause102

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@delulo: I appreciate what DataSecurityNode is trying to accomplish, but I also applaud your efforts to assure funds are being used as wisely as possible.  And although I understand that with 2.0 there will be greater scrutiny and accountability (hopefully helped along by DposHub), I agree that it makes sense to scrutinize as much as possible now.  Having said that, I wonder if you are able to tally all BTS currently being paid to non-dev delegates above the 3% pay rate.  I am curious what the current total daily (non-dev) dilution may be.  Are you able to do that calculation? 


Much appreciated!
What I'd like to see is a calculation /estiamte based on the numbers that have been generated up to now. Amount of funds used vs amount of transaction fees generated (plus possibly estimate over future tx fees). Such a calculation / numbers are much more objective than all the texting we are doing here...
Thanks!
Looking at this http://bitsharesblocks.com/delegates (+ sort by pay rate), roughly 40% of delegates (very roughly) are marketing delegates of some sort which imo is way to high given  that we have a wallet that is unusable and we would be marketing a version of bitshares which is inferior to what we finally aim for (bitshares 2.0). If someone wants to market the idea / concept of bitshares then I'd say it is much more powerful to do that while having a powerful and working client that can showcase the theory.

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

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Offline tbone

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@delulo: I appreciate what DataSecurityNode is trying to accomplish, but I also applaud your efforts to assure funds are being used as wisely as possible.  And although I understand that with 2.0 there will be greater scrutiny and accountability (hopefully helped along by DposHub), I agree that it makes sense to scrutinize as much as possible now.  Having said that, I wonder if you are able to tally all BTS currently being paid to non-dev delegates above the 3% pay rate.  I am curious what the current total daily (non-dev) dilution may be.  Are you able to do that calculation? 


Much appreciated!
What I'd like to see is a calculation /estiamte based on the numbers that have been generated up to now. Amount of funds used vs amount of transaction fees generated (plus possibly estimate over future tx fees). Such a calculation / numbers are much more objective than all the texting we are doing here...

Offline santaclause102

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[...]
I see that you put a lot of work into it as you laid out in your post.

The question I would like to have an answer for is (I didn't see an answer to that in your text) how effective the pool is: For example: overall cost (incl. development work, subsidized payouts etc) / NEW user introduced to the wallet.
My opinion is that if that is not a good ratio or the ratio is not known then 6 delegates adds quite a bit of dilution and therefore selling pressure for something that is not effective or at least not proven to be effective. The two delegates that were in there (also at a higher market cap) should have been enough to prove this marketing method to justify 6 delegates quantifyably. 

I like that you put a lot of thought and effort into your post but I would prefer a concise reply that is on point (not longer than necessary; I had a hard time seeing an answer to my question in your last post ) :)

It's not just a new user introduced to the wallet. It's a regular user generating transactions and volume on a almost daily basis.

Based on our current averages, a user generates $2 a day and is paid out in bitUSD. This means that we are effectively holding triple the BTS.

There is a buy and there is a sell. Each day presenting we are buying up bitUSD to pay out miners. Following each individual payout they are either holding, using, or converting to something else. Either way the volume is coming to bitshares along with all the transactions. It also appears that a lot number of the miners are holders.. they are using the mining as a way to earn BTS.

The delegates we had went towards bonuses of the current pool primarily and some towards dev as I already stated.

Edit: I have had this sitting in my browser since yesterday and I have rewritten it a few times.. I realize now I just need to put out more detailed plans on development and growth so that its more concise for everyone to access. I will take some time out over this weekend to try and get this out to you and everyone by early next week. I thought I would at least post this so you know I am not ignoring your question.
Much appreciated!
What I'd like to see is a calculation /estiamte based on the numbers that have been generated up to now. Amount of funds used vs amount of transaction fees generated (plus possibly estimate over future tx fees). Such a calculation / numbers are much more objective than all the texting we are doing here...

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

[...]
I see that you put a lot of work into it as you laid out in your post.

The question I would like to have an answer for is (I didn't see an answer to that in your text) how effective the pool is: For example: overall cost (incl. development work, subsidized payouts etc) / NEW user introduced to the wallet.
My opinion is that if that is not a good ratio or the ratio is not known then 6 delegates adds quite a bit of dilution and therefore selling pressure for something that is not effective or at least not proven to be effective. The two delegates that were in there (also at a higher market cap) should have been enough to prove this marketing method to justify 6 delegates quantifyably. 

I like that you put a lot of thought and effort into your post but I would prefer a concise reply that is on point (not longer than necessary; I had a hard time seeing an answer to my question in your last post ) :)

It's not just a new user introduced to the wallet. It's a regular user generating transactions and volume on a almost daily basis.

Based on our current averages, a user generates $2 a day and is paid out in bitUSD. This means that we are effectively holding triple the BTS.

There is a buy and there is a sell. Each day presenting we are buying up bitUSD to pay out miners. Following each individual payout they are either holding, using, or converting to something else. Either way the volume is coming to bitshares along with all the transactions. It also appears that a lot number of the miners are holders.. they are using the mining as a way to earn BTS.

The delegates we had went towards bonuses of the current pool primarily and some towards dev as I already stated.

Edit: I have had this sitting in my browser since yesterday and I have rewritten it a few times.. I realize now I just need to put out more detailed plans on development and growth so that its more concise for everyone to access. I will take some time out over this weekend to try and get this out to you and everyone by early next week. I thought I would at least post this so you know I am not ignoring your question.
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Offline fuzzy

WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline santaclause102

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[...]
I see that you put a lot of work into it as you laid out in your post.

The question I would like to have an answer for is (I didn't see an answer to that in your text) how effective the pool is: For example: overall cost (incl. development work, subsidized payouts etc) / NEW user introduced to the wallet.
My opinion is that if that is not a good ratio or the ratio is not known then 6 delegates adds quite a bit of dilution and therefore selling pressure for something that is not effective or at least not proven to be effective. The two delegates that were in there (also at a higher market cap) should have been enough to prove this marketing method to justify 6 delegates quantifyably. 

I like that you put a lot of thought and effort into your post but I would prefer a concise reply that is on point (not longer than necessary; I had a hard time seeing an answer to my question in your last post ) :)

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

How much traction has the mining pool gotten with the two 100% delegates you had in the top 101 for a while? What are the numbers there (costs and new users introduced)?

What are the reasons that this will scale more than linearly now that you have trippled the amount delegates?

My (critical) thinking is that miners are professional companies that are very specialized in mining and do not look into investing (in crypto projects) or using them. This would be different if we had many home miners still... If that is so then it is just subsidizing mining for nothing.

My overall take on marketing atm is that we shouldnt waste any ressources on it until 2.0 is out.  If you think about it the 6 100% btsmining delegates that are in atm could afford a new developer that works half time in the US or  two full time devs in Eastern Europe....

Good questions.. it's difficult to keep up with thing the way the forum is and with reports in Nullstreet.

The traction on the pool has been nearly the same if not lower since we got took over for a variety of reasons:
- The bonus that initially gained the pool popularity went down by over 80%
- Profitability remained the same due to pool needing updating to newer methods of mining, so other pools offered better payouts.
- We haven't promoted minebitshares because any miners we attract in our current state would just turn and burn and move on without a competitive value add.

So with all that comes the updates needed. The bonuses we have been paying out are far less than what used to be that drove the pool to 3 times the size it is today.. along with other factors I mentioned. We do have some good days, but not as consistently as any miner would like.

We had to abandon the current platform because it is dated and so had to rebuild a whole new platform for the pool. We got as far as configuring over 18 of the most profitable coins along with additional protocol support. I had enough to pay that far and then no further due to lack of funds. I actually got the worker to agree to hold off on the remaining balance due to our market cap being so bad so that I could make the BTS go further. Now we have several more features that require some custom programming work in order to make the pool production functional.

I actually have two different programming teams I can utilize...they just don't work for nearly free. I have my own group of programmers that do work related to typical serve operations, but that is a very different beast from crypto. I attempted earlier on to push them towards getting some of this work done but that didn't work out well.

Akado is right.. crypto space programmers who know what they are doing are not easy to find and the ones you do find are so busy, they are not interested unless you got a good chunk of money for them. I lost count of how many I interviewed. I thought it would be like other programmers initially, which you can find everywhere.. but not this variety.

Otherwise all the BTS has been converting to bitUSD everyday driving combining with the mining about $100 on average and $300 bitUSD on the high days. This is nothing compared to where I know we can take it with the dev plans. I have stated several times we can see $100k a day in volume in the final stages of operation.

Some of your assumptions on mining however are a bit off from what we do. They seem based on bitcoin mining only. We are currently only doing altcoins. Future plans were to include bitcoin as part of the pool but only if it is more profitable.

The target for us is GPU miners.. it's not a zero sum game for them as you said. There are GPU miners making money.. otherwise they wouldn't continue to do it.

I don't see as much of a future in the big rig mining operations with everything going on.. the GPU space however has a great deal of opportunity that is only going to continue to grow. Those that are only focused on bitcoin though wouldn't recognize it. Perhaps now with ETH launching there is a renewed interest. I made a mention elsewhere about us supporting ETH mining in the future. Mine ETH for bitUSD? Yes Please.

Just because we got voted in yesterday doesn't mean we suddenly have stockpiles of cash to payout to everyone. Note our market cap still makes what BTS we get terribly terribly weak. We pledged earlier on that we would put it towards increased bonus/payouts and towards dev so that we can get to a point where we no longer need the delegates.

If you look back you can see my view of delegates (at least in 1.0.. goes for workers in 2.0) is that they are a temporary vehicle only.. not something to be used in perpetuity. So as it stands now that we got more delegate support, I can boost payouts and now start to save up towards moving on in the development of the pool to be competitive and self sustaining. At that point you can expect an announcement from us about all that.

This is all very short lived however. As I recall,  all delegates beyond 3% come 2.0 will have worker + witnesses.. however they will need to get revoted for as I understand. It would make sense for us to wind up the multiples we have and just push out the # we need to get the job done with one. DPOSHub is going to make that whole process much easier. I been saying this since the beginning. Either way, I remain committed to the project despite the heavy cost it has imposed on me personally because I know there is a pathway to turning it all around and know it can be a major contributor to bitshares dominating the crypto space as far as mining goes.

Anyhow.. hangout is coming up and I still have other work to do.. hope this managed to answer your questions... be happy to answer any others later today.
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Offline Akado

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If you think about it the 6 100% btsmining delegates that are in atm could afford a new developer that works half time in the US or  two full time devs in Eastern Europe....

But do we have those developers available?
Seeking them is costly too of course. I just put things into perspective. You can also just save the money. The question is whether the subsidized bts mining pool is really cost effective (see considerations above) It is the single most costly operation atm that is paid through inflation...
And imo the model should have proofed with one or two delegates before it gets 6 therefore my questions above to data...

I understand. I honestly would prefer a few more devs, but if we had that opportunity, we would have them already lurking in the forums or have CNX mentioning that, so it seems there's a lack of quality devs at the moment, in the crypto space.

I know a few friends that could help with some stuff but even though I try every week to get them to come here, they just don't have the time. I find it really hard to get someone with a full time job that is reasonably well paid to come here. It makes me kind of sad because we could have something even better going on here.
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38PTSWarrior

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Happy to see that minebitshares is almost completely voted in. The recent voting was very important. For the most profitable mining pool!

Offline santaclause102

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If you think about it the 6 100% btsmining delegates that are in atm could afford a new developer that works half time in the US or  two full time devs in Eastern Europe....

But do we have those developers available?
Seeking them is costly too of course. I just put things into perspective. You can also just save the money. The question is whether the subsidized bts mining pool is really cost effective (see considerations above) It is the single most costly operation atm that is paid through inflation...
And imo the model should have proofed with one or two delegates before it gets 6 therefore my questions above to data...