Author Topic: POLL: Should paid Workers be REQUIRED to Publish their accountability info?  (Read 35912 times)

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Offline eagleeye

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Simplicity is probably the best choice of action.

I think you guys rock (gamey, ken code)

Offline kenCode

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Reports and Proposals won't fit on a wall, that's asking too much.
 
It sounds like you're not too fond of Factom or Open Transactions. Moonstone has Partnered with them and will be using OT tech as well, so they can't be that bad. I see Factom doing a lot of good things too in securing property registers and such as well.
Factom and Storj are just examples, ways we could access large chunks of data with our blockchain.
 
Automated firing/hiring/rewards - It's very tough to manage a globally distributed team of people, especially in a large company with hundreds of workers.
 
No mud here, just perfect clarity. If an employee has 2-weeks of vacation time each year, works M-F, 9-5, has two 15min breaks per shift, then we can calculate how many days they have left (also sick days, paternal, etc). If we need say, 10 Tech Support people, the blockchain will know who is on, who is off, and who will be gone during what days. Now, when a customer calls and needs Tech Support, the blockchain will instantly reveal who is available that second. We could even code it in (like the forum "Notify" feature) to randomly contact one of those available people. Customer Service is everything.
 
Those are just a few of the great things that can come from really having our proverbial *shit* together, ya know?
At least the "basics". See my definition of that a few posts back..
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Offline gamey

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Factom is a data-layer for the Bitcoin blockchain, that's why I said "tech" after their name. If we have the ability to store additional data on our blockchain, then let's make use of it in a way that brings value to BitShares.

The burning on walls does this.  It doesn't need Factom or anything else requiring their technology.  Those transactions might need some tweaking, but factom's tech is all about being a partial parasitic chain with a secondary chain of sorts to store data.  That is nothing we'd ever want or need.. Just like the time you suggested Open Transactions without ever laying out a plan on how to use them.

In general I am in agreement, but the automated firing and other weird ideas, not so much.  Requesting vacation?  How does the blockchain approve it?  So instead of focusing on a simple list of delegates and what they're doing and when we got their last update, we get a lot of muddying of the waters from you.

I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline kenCode

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Factom is a data-layer for the Bitcoin blockchain, that's why I said "tech" after their name. If we have the ability to store additional data on our blockchain, then let's make use of it in a way that brings value to BitShares.
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Offline gamey

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Code it in, and store the data forever on the blockchain.
Storj and Factom tech can help with this, see my series of posts above explaining how this is done.
Thru code, I can easily check grammar, make sure it's 10% than last month's submission, etc.

How do you store factom tokens on the bts blockchain which are required to utilize factom?
I speak for myself and only myself.

Offline kenCode

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Delegates (or workers) are never going to apply for a sick leave from a blockchain. This is just unrealistic.

I disagree. BitShares is small right now. What happens when we have 200 workers around the world? Should we keep hiring expensive human beings when blockchainHR could at least handle the basics?
 
Forcing them to report is just a bad idea. It might work in a corporate world but my gut tells me it is just not going to happen here.

The corporate world as you mentioned is where I learned this stuff. having to manage so many people in different geo-locations and timezones etc etc is a royal pain, and, it's not a job (or delegate position) that I want.
That would also centralize too much and be very expensive IMO. It would yet again put too much power into one person's hands.
 
Voters would love to make informed decisions but to do so they need an up-to-date and concise source of information.
So let's give them this information.

 +5%
 
Let's vote for one HR delegate whose only duty will be preparing, managing and publishing information about all other delegates, both active and stand-by.

Like I mentioned above, the basics are redundant. Redundancies can be handled by the BlockchainHR code. Publish it right to the data-layer of the bitshares blockchain so that we know it hasn't been tampered with, is filed on time and properly, etc.
 
Compile delegates' forum posts and compare their promises with results delivered.
Create a dedicated website for this. Make it clear and keep it up-to-date and show their progress (or lack of it).
Your Google roster was such a good start.

A website for this data is a great idea. Where is that data stored though? With one person who owns the one website domain and has direct edit-access to said data? Again, too centralized for me. You can't coerce a blockchain.
 
"basics" = where is johnny today? what did jeb get done last week? what days/hours does he work each day? what country is he in? what's he going to get done next week?
 
basics are needed at the very least. fuzzy mentioned that I should hold mumbles for this, I don't know. I've got enough enemies here as it is (especially delegates and those running for delegate). then again, how many people love their company HR person, right? ;)
 
If you guys want this company to be attractive to investors (especially those with decades of business experience) then they need to be assured and constantly reassured that their money is safe amongst said paid humans. You can't coerce a blockchain.
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jakub

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Ken, I've been observing your accountability campaign for a while.
I think your intentions are good but the methods you are proposing are not going to get any traction here.

Delegates (or workers) are never going to apply for a sick leave from a blockchain. This is just unrealistic.
Forcing them to report is just a bad idea. It might work in a corporate world but my gut tells me it is just not going to happen here.

Voters would love to make informed decisions but to do so they need an up-to-date and concise source of information.
So let's give them this information.
Let's vote for one HR delegate whose only duty will be preparing, managing and publishing information about all other delegates, both active and stand-by.
Compile delegates' forum posts and compare their promises with results delivered.
Create a dedicated website for this. Make it clear and keep it up-to-date and show their progress (or lack of it).
Your Google roster was such a good start.

If you were willing to become this HR delegate I'll be glad to vote for you.
You are the man, Ken, you have the passion but please make good use of it.

This is a very reasonable idea, except it concentrates a lot of power in the hands of this delegate, similar to the power of the news media. Centralizing this is quite risky, and it's not likely many will want to do the work you describe.
Concentrates a lot of power? I agree.
Risky? I don't agree. If he abuses his power you can easily vote him out.

Having power is not a bad thing as it makes you efficient.
It's the abusing of power that is dangerous but this is not going to happen here because we have the vote.

Offline Thom

Ken, I've been observing your accountability campaign for a while.
I think your intentions are good but the methods you are proposing are not going to get any traction here.

Delegates (or workers) are never going to apply for a sick leave from a blockchain. This is just unrealistic.
Forcing them to report is just a bad idea. It might work in a corporate world but my gut tells me it is just not going to happen here.

Voters would love to make informed decisions but to do so they need an up-to-date and concise source of information.
So let's give them this information.
Let's vote for one HR delegate whose only duty will be preparing, managing and publishing information about all other delegates, both active and stand-by.
Compile delegates' forum posts and compare their promises with results delivered.
Create a dedicated website for this. Make it clear and keep it up-to-date and show their progress (or lack of it).
Your Google roster was such a good start.

If you were willing to become this HR delegate I'll be glad to vote for you.
You are the man, Ken, you have the passion but please make good use of it.

This is a very reasonable idea, except it concentrates a lot of power in the hands of this delegate, similar to the power of the news media. Centralizing this is quite risky, and it's not likely many will want to do the work you describe.

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

jakub

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Ken, I've been observing your accountability campaign for a while.
I think your intentions are good but the methods you are proposing are not going to get any traction here.

Delegates (or workers) are never going to apply for a sick leave from a blockchain. This is just unrealistic.
Forcing them to report is just a bad idea. It might work in a corporate world but my gut tells me it is just not going to happen here.

Voters would love to make informed decisions but to do so they need an up-to-date and concise source of information.
So let's give them this information.
Let's vote for one HR delegate whose only duty will be preparing, managing and publishing information about all other delegates, both active and stand-by.
Compile delegates' forum posts and compare their promises with results delivered.
Create a dedicated website for this. Make it clear and keep it up-to-date and show their progress (or lack of it).
Your Google roster was such a good start.

If you were willing to become this HR delegate I'll be glad to vote for you.
You are the man, Ken, you have the passion but please make good use of it.

Offline Akado

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I thinkg Thom is right. the way to achieve it is the problem. i don't think doing that on the blockchain is the best solution. Now what we could do is vote on the blockchain if delegate X delivered the report or not, that way people could check if the delegate did it or not. However I don't see people voting for 101 different delegates every month. Maybe just place all the info on a thread or bitsharesblocks, somewhere public. But i believe it doesnt need to be on the blockchain.

Maybe we can do that later with the moonstone and factom thing if they deliver things right. then the reports would be on the blockchain itself and we could vote? Just brainstorming. but for now, a thread on the forums or a table on bitsharesblocks is enough i guess
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Offline kenCode

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Offline Thom

Funny, the majority of people attacking me on requiring accountability are delegates, or are running for delegate.. I wonder why. :o
 
A successful company employs Workers that are driven, accountable and rewarded.
Work hard, and prove it. No more hiding.

Not all delegates KC. I am with you concerning accountability. I consider it a first principle which is the cornerstone of a system that is responsive to the will of the shareholders, and on that point I am with you 100% ken.

Regarding how accountability is achieved, that is another story. There is room for discussion on that. If the poll at the top of this thread is any indication, it seems close to unanimous that everyone agrees we need some "thing" called accountability, but reading the thread tells me people must not know what that is.

For example:
short answer: no to all.

In my opinion, the blockchain doesn't care about trivial things, nor should it care. It's up to shareholders to measure and vote, if you feel uncomfortable with a worker, don't vote for it.

In order to "fine" a worker, you'd need a centralized body and that's a big no.

Shows little understanding that measuring performance relies on information. Easy access to information, not scattered here and there all over the Internet. The blockchain is the obvious place it should reside, so it is available and readily accessible to all shareholders worldwide. Fines or other "enforcement" measures, if shareholders agree to them, must be coded into the fabric of the ecosystem. That is, by consensus and based on publicly accessible info stored on the blockchain. IMO, "enforcement" should be carried out by the shareholders in the form of votes. It could be considered centralized in the blockchain (i.e. information) but decentralized in shareholder voting / consensus.

There is really nothing different about a fine that provides a negative incentive than a fee imposed by the blockchain. The fee to register as a delegate is set to dis-incentivize casual participation. You could look at it as a fine for a casual attitude about running a delegate node.

It's all about incentives.

Granted, there are technical considerations of putting information on the blockchain we must take into consideration before we willy-nilly go bloating it with trivial, non-essential info tha doesn't help to manage the ecosystem. But that is much easier to work out than getting consensus on how to implement an effective mechanism of accountability.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline kenCode

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With a fork it could, yeah.
All I am asking for is at least some basics. The Clients I work with require the full 10-points. They build multi-million dollar companies.
Whether BitShares implements the new code features is up to BitShares though.
If we're going to build successful, trustless DAC's, we need to know what our employees are doing at any given moment.
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chryspano

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Some control today can lead to total control tomorrow. Until now I'm not convinced that we should proceed to this path, I reserve the right to change my mind in the future...

Offline kenCode

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Delegates should do as they please

If you've ever run a large globally distributed staff of employees, you would understand why *some* control is needed. Voter apathy ain't cutting it now, nor will it in the future. BlockchainHR can at least enforce the basics that voters can't and won't.
Investor confidence comes from provable accountability.
#BlockchainHR
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