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Offline xeroc

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In preparations for the "big" announcement
« on: May 17, 2015, 09:23:05 AM »

Fellow BitSharers,

Problem Statement
Rumors state that there will be plenty of new features (17 or so) in the
upcoming release of BitShares. Taking into account the historical reactions on
ANY news regarding BitShares, I feel that most people might dump their shares
on the market even before having read the announcment in full.

Proposal
I therefore propose (and ask Bytemaster) to add a TL;DR; (too long; didn't
read) paragraph replying to the biggest concerns of shareholders right at the
top of "the annoucenemnt".

So, what I ask YOU to do in this thread is the following. Tell me what your
biggest technicall concerns about BitShares are. I will update this OP and
collect all issues here.

Contributions
  • Will we see 'voted' hard forks such that core devs can no longer "change rules" at will and is the protocol now 'stable'?
  • Assuming there will not be two different bitUSD, how will the switch from bitasset 1.0 to bitasset 2.0 look like?
  • Will we see relative orders?
  • Will we be able to close short orders using the collateral?
  • Considering recent discussion about Bitcoin's block limits, how fast is BitShares "really" (in tps)?
  • What has been done to stabilize the user interface and make it user friendly/more responsive? Can we expect a fast, professional GUI experience within this year?
  • Will there be a referral system available at launch?
  • Will the separated Worker/Delegate/blocksigner proposal be implemented in time?
  • What measures have been taken to ensure that newly written code does not introduced many bugs or reveal hidden design assumptions that are no longer valid
  • Wil the new client be more resource efficient?
  • Have there been any ideas to increase voting participation (e.g. cold storage voting, simplified voting procedure)
  • What can be done to against whales dominating the voting process?
  • How can KYC and AML be acknowledge in BitShares such that it does not affect BTS holders?
  • Is the upcoming announcement just more technical improvements/features, or will there be any big exchanges/banks who issue their assets on the BitShares blockchain?
  • What's the core product?
  • How do we profit from it (the core product)?
  • Are Turing complete scripts/applications on the roadmap?
  • What has been done to attract more 3rd party developers?
  • When will the expired short orders will be filled and the BTS collateral will be released? Are these filled in order of expiry when someone is buying Bitusd at price feed? Does this mean that in order for all the expired orders to release collateral bitusd should fall below usd? What happens if bitusd never falls below usd because of small orders above the bitusd usd peg? Will the collateral from the expired orders remain blocked forever? Can I cover my self one of my expired order somehow?

Is there a plan for reaching out to the fintech startups of the world?  There has been $13.4bn of investment over the last yr to these startups that are hungry for a competitive edge like BitShares.
What is the plan for reaching consumers as the uber of banking?



edit: As a remark: Some questions may not be answered in an "Announcement for the next BitShares release", but may fit for a direct discussion in the mumble sessions with Bytemaster or any other community member. Though I will try to get answers of as many questions as possible.




Eaglery waiting for input.
Regards
 -- XeRoc
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 08:21:13 AM by xeroc ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ »
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julian1

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Re: In preparations for the "big" announcement
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2015, 10:16:48 AM »
I like everything I hear.

- The referral system puts emphasis and incentives where they need to be - on acquiring new users.

- The separation of delegate duties, should allow better limitation of legal liability, and encourage branching into new markets.

- The changes to Bitassets rules -  I don't understand well, but appreciate they've been well received.

- Adopting a web-sockets/push approach to client/ server communication is awesome and will really help ease UX development, performance and scalability (personal experience with this).

What do I fear? That's simple. A code rewrite of this magnitude could introduce many new bugs, reveal hidden design assumptions that are no longer valid, and take far longer and require more resource than many will initially appreciate.

Offline davidpbrown

Re: In preparations for the "big" announcement
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2015, 10:26:34 AM »
Tell me what your biggest technical concerns about BitShares are.

What BitShares offers as pegged assets has huge potential. That should be clear to everyone. I wonder that capability should be the centrepeice of all marketing; wiki's and FAQ, as it's fairly unique to BitShares - value of asset by consensus, is a really important idea.

My principal concern then is that DPOS is not obvious and simple but confusing and political. The voting doesn't provide effective positive and negative feedback; large holders dominate and minor holders see their votes have little effect. The payments to the principal delegates are not obviously fair .. 100% is a license to print money. Where is the clear simple list of business cases for those?.. and even with that creating work for a user, expecting them to trawl through 101 of those to confirm they make sense, is too much. Better perhaps to set classes of delegate - devs get 100%; admin-support 80%; marketing 64%; etc or whatever but make it simple==trivial to understand and draw confidence from. While BitShares BTS are not worth what they will be, some delegates will be accruing a small fortune. Like it or not such central wealth and whales are not an attractor in a world looking for fair distributed power and wealth. It might be better for the long term that those are burnt through into BTC even?

There is then a serious question legal/technical question that's beyond me, about whether BitShares will need to become realistic and acknowledge KYC and AML in some way.. sufficient to engage large investors. Bytemaster and others seem to understand their options and it's not clear atm what Governments will insist on.. the UK perhaps being more realistic in how the perceived value of a digital token, is not Government's business and the exchange of those is not requiring KYC/AML but ye old bank and institutional money might not understand to take confidence from consensus rather than legislation. Jumping in one step to what we want from what we have, might not be realistic.

Other issues such as usability; GUI etc as incidental and will naturally evolve over time.
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Offline speedy

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Re: In preparations for the "big" announcement
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2015, 11:02:12 AM »
Here is my biggest concern: Is the upcoming announcement just more technical improvements/features (however great they are), or will there be any big exchanges/banks who issue their assets on the BitShares blockchain?

Our technical features could be so clever that they pass the Turing test, and still most Bitcoiners wouldnt care because to them we are still just an altcoin. They can ignore us because our assets arent integrated into any big money, unlike Ripple.

Offline starspirit

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Re: In preparations for the "big" announcement
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2015, 11:53:04 AM »
Strategic:
What's the core product?
How do we profit from it?

Offline carpet ride

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In preparations for the "big" announcement
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2015, 11:57:07 AM »
Is there a plan for reaching out to the fintech startups of the world?  There has been $13.4bn of investment over the last yr to these startups that are hungry for a competitive edge like BitShares.

What is the plan for reaching consumers as the uber of banking?

Edit: I listened to the 5/15/2015 mumble and that answered these questions.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 12:58:08 PM by Carpet Ride »
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Offline triox

Re: In preparations for the "big" announcement
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2015, 03:19:21 PM »
I think this community is setting themselves for a great disappointment if you continue to desperately cling to the hope of some big big/surprise announcements.

If you read the forum and listen to mumble sessions, probably everything has already been leaked by DL/SL in an attempt to stop the price tanking.

  • reworking of the database backend for faster scanning and syncing
  • reworking backend-frontend communication for faster, less buggy user interface
  • Bitassets 2.0 and privatized bitassets
  • splitting delegate roles
  • Customizable blockchain parameters without hard forks
  • Built-in referral program
  • Documentation

What more do you want? If you're praying for a partnership with Goldman Sachs, BM has said multiple times that Bitshares integration can only be viable for small startups that are looking for an edge. I believe the most we can hope for at this point is integrating with some mid-size Bitcoin-oriented business. Bitstamp at most.

Still, if you're reading all this and it's not enough to be excited than you better dump your shares now and spare us the inevitable whining.

Offline xeroc

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Re: In preparations for the "big" announcement
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2015, 03:25:12 PM »
@triox: please read the OP again. Your post kind of doesn't fit here ..

Else I agree, except that we only know what BM wants us to know .. and he learn the consequences if leaking information the hard way already .. so i'd say: relax and stay excited
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Offline Thom

Re: In preparations for the "big" announcement
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2015, 04:05:35 PM »
There are a few good questions and concerns expressed so far in this thread.  +5% to the OP for his anticipatory thinking about the community reactions when the upcoming announcement is made.

My chief concern is and always will be how well is BitShares sticking to the fundamental principles that brought me and many others to this ecosystem.

If that fades then so will my support. BM said much in last Friday's mumble to assure me he is committed to those principles, to further the cause of non-violent financial freedom and provide an alternative to the mainstream financial oligarchy. Is he just playing the role of a politician and will change his mind and bend to the pressure to make money and capture that elusive network effect? I still believe BM has more integrity than that and he will not acquiesce to KYC & AML pressures --to the extent they would affect all BTS shareholders--

I recognize it's a very difficult thing to determine the correct balance and create an ecosystem that pleases the two widely divergent perspectives of those that want to embrace the existing mainstream financial world and the silk road types that embrace total freedom through voluntary interaction.

What greatly puzzles me is why so few people realize why bitcoin, BitShares and cryptocurrency in general exists in the first place and how reaching out to gain mainstream approval / adoption is so contrary to what gave birth to it. It is like saying, "Dang, looks like it's gonna be real difficult to build an alternate ecosystem to further the cause of freedom, so fuck that we're about to die! Lets ask for help to morph what we have built into something familiar to the masses and after we become successful we'll return to the original goals".

I just don't get why people want more of the same things in BitShares that already exist in the mainstream, things which are proven to be more centralized, manipulated, corruptible and wealth sucking. If you want those things go back to the mainstream financial world! BitShares stands for something radically different. That may only draw a small minority of supporters initially, the growth of the ecosystem will not be meteoric, profits on speculative trades may be much less lucrative, but if we can weather the economic storm the entrenched financial powers that shouldn't be are imposing on us, we will slowly win the hearts and minds of more and more people and become a powerful example of the true free market that has never before existed on a global scale to empower the 6+ billion individuals to reach their greatest potential.

[ / philosophical rant off ]

My primary technical concern is whether all of the sweeping changes will be perceived as overall positive or net negative by the community. It all hinges on the User eXperience. I am very uneasy about this. The team has not demonstrated the innovation and rate of improvement of frontend (UI) development compared with that of the infrastructure / backend. It clearly isn't where their passion lives. However, BM is heading up an exceptional team, and he realizes the importance and difficulty of creating a solid, positive UX. Will he be able to  manage and guide his team to produce a quality software product that the market wants? Will support be a killer after it's released (i.e. bugs)? Will he be able to acquire the necessary skills in UI / UX to pull this off? Will it take much longer than anticipated, causing loss of confidence if the "big release" doesn't happen until July or possibly even August?



Offline mf-tzo

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Re: In preparations for the "big" announcement
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2015, 04:07:34 PM »
It has always been my impression and I think it has been communicated like this from the beginning that bitshares will do for business what bitcoin did for money. Many have come and many have left..I am still here. I am not a big shareholder though and I only hope to profit by holding something valuable like BTS.

So far, I have been buying BTS at all prices, shorting bitassets, Holding BTS..So far I lost ALL my profits from the last 2 years successful trading with bitcoin and all other altcoins craps and now I am at losses since I only hold BTS.

So my 3 concerns are:

1) Holding BTS and shorting Bitassets will have a consequence of those who believed in BTS lose everything and holding the bag? The current system apparently was designed to make profits to those that sold their BTS for bitassets when BTS was pumped. Is this the plan?

2) Since we expect some great news, "epic news", where is the buying volume? Why no one is buying and more specifically, why the devs who are so excited about BTS and about what is coming why they don't buy like crazy now? Where are the millions daily volumes we had when everyone was so excited about BTS?

3) Should we expect a fast, professional GUI experience within this year?


Offline xiahui135

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Re: In preparations for the "big" announcement
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2015, 04:20:24 PM »
Why we have this many huge changes in bts?
Why there are so many announcement?

We are building a platform, we should be stable, so others can do something on it.

Offline cass

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Re: In preparations for the "big" announcement
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2015, 04:26:27 PM »
Quote
2) Since we expect some great news, "epic news", where is the buying volume? Why no one is buying and more specifically, why the devs who are so excited about BTS and about what is coming why they don't buy like crazy now? Where are the millions daily volumes we had when everyone was so excited about BTS?

Because they don't have any money to buy into more ... ^^
(They made also losses due the BTS fall etc)
</wildguess>

Quote
3) Should we expect a fast, professional GUI experience within this year

i'm really confident about to reach this goal :)

« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 04:27:58 PM by cass »
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: In preparations for the "big" announcement
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2015, 04:38:52 PM »
As much as I want to believe that devs don't have money to buy BTS because they made losses from BTS price fall I find this hard to believe .Someone is buying and someone is selling. Someone makes profits and someone makes losses. It can't be that everybody makes losses. Some people made a lot of money from BTS. I think that people who follow all the technical development of BTS can see in front of others of what is coming so they can't make losses especially in such an iliquid market such as BTS. So if you guys want BTS not to die completely, these people better leave their greadyness and start rebuying some BTS and pumping the price in millions daily volumes so new and current investors can regain some confidence..

Sorry for the frustrating and nonconstructive post. I am just very saaadd about BTS market cap...

Offline mf-tzo

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Re: In preparations for the "big" announcement
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2015, 04:44:08 PM »
and by the way I have also another concern..

When will the expired short orders will be filled and the BTS collateral will be released? Are these filled in order of expiry when someone is buying Bitusd at price feed? Does this mean that in order for all the expired orders to release collateral bitusd should fall below usd? What happens if bitusd never falls below usd because of small orders above the bitusd usd peg? Will the collateral from the expired orders remain blocked forever? Can I cover my self one of my expired order somehow?

 

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