Poll

Should minebitshares have a multisig account controlled by data and others for the multiple delegates that will subsidize it?

Yes...we have been burned too many times in the past to only go off trust.
Neutral...
No...data is a trusted member of the community and the fact that he is taking over mine bitshares is more sacrifice and risk than it is a sweet business deal.  Trust is enough.

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Offline fuzzy

Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« on: May 17, 2015, 12:11:52 PM »

Datasecurity has gone the route I believed, from the very beginning, was the correct path.  In my mind he is working on this and taking it over(along with the work and risk) so it is smart for our community to give him an overage of the funds he originally estimated...to ensure the project's success.  Eventually, if we have accomplished this, he will be very well off for his work and help...and we will be too.  So it only makes sense that we give him what he needs. 
With that said, I have heard people complain in the past about so many delegates.  It was for this reason made a statement awhile back that we could have multisig account access for those involved in ensuring that data has the funding necessary to ensure success (far moreso than any other pool out there). 
Though I trust data personally I have to recognize that many people have been against the proposal from the very beginning....let alone adding 5-6 more delegates to the mix.  So I am placing a poll in here to see where we stand as a community.

Please feel free to add comments. I am trying to be as fair as possible here, but decisions aren't always cut and dry. 

(P.S. this dynamic with having multisig for a large amount of funds to ensure control is more decentralized in the early phases (while it is subsidized) will apply to the new version of bitshares..with "workers" and project funding to separate the current duties/power of delegates)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 12:35:39 PM by fuzzy »
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2015, 12:32:09 PM »
Just so everyone knows where I stand, I trust data 100%, or else I wouldn't have pushed for him to run this and gain multiple delegates from the beginning.
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2015, 12:41:55 PM »
Second post and bump.  I believe if there is a multisig group it should contain the members who originally donated from their own funds to pay for minebitshares' delegates.  They knowingly took the risk to help data eliminate some of the risk on his end...so I believe their sacrifice puts them in the perfect position to play these roles. 

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Offline xeroc

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Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2015, 12:57:32 PM »
Second post and bump.  I believe if there is a multisig group it should contain the members who originally donated from their own funds to pay for minebitshares' delegates.  They knowingly took the risk to help data eliminate some of the risk on his end...so I believe their sacrifice puts them in the perfect position to play these roles.
good idea!  +5%
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2015, 03:57:02 PM »
Thanks xeroc.  I think this could be huge for bitshares AND datasecuritynode.  Both are things I'm personally for because I'm behind both.  My main purpose behind finding out what the community thinks is to help gain insight into it. Beyond bitcoin  has been an effort to give a voice to bitshares' community as our first step in the process of our growth.  This means that...just like the hangouts, I request input from others from time to time. 

It is my hope that people can ascertain my intentions from my past --closing in on 2 years of action and volunteering.  As much as I care about profit and all that good stuff, I hope to do my best to keep the principles upon which the team and I built this platform intact. 

I sincerely hope people do not take this poll the wrong way.
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2015, 08:15:05 PM »
148 views and noone feels like voting?

Is it the poll or that they are not interested in the project?  I hope it's the former rather than the latter.
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Offline davidpbrown

Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2015, 08:28:04 PM »
I'm not up to speed and other might also be wondering what is 'the project'?..

I have no strong opinion, at this stage I'm happy to let fly whatever might work and I trust in those more central to the project to be mindful and guide the rest of us. My default however is simply to plan for worst case, put in place whatever is appropriate for a random equivalent doing the same. That you have confidence in them on this occasion, is a bonus but it helps remove politics, if everyone is treated the same.  :-\
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Offline onceuponatime

Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2015, 08:36:22 PM »
I have full confidence in the MineBitshares project and in Datasecuritynode, voted for the delegates, donated to the funding of the delegates, and voted Neutral in your poll above.

The sooner the delegates get voted in, the sooner Data can get the project kicked into high gear and thus benefit us all.

This project covers so many bases so well, and is about the only marketing strategy that can go forward with immediate results before the referral system goes live.

Offline Shentist

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Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2015, 08:39:05 PM »
they are converting it instantly to the miners, so why should multisig helping?

the risk problem to get hacked and loose funds, are minimal.

the risk that jonathan is running away with the funds is minimal as well, because the miners will complain instantly.

so, i think not a big deal if they don't use multisig.

Offline Ben Mason

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Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2015, 08:47:24 PM »
I have full confidence in datasecuritynode's integrity. He's been completely transparent, communicated effectively and seems highly competent. I voted to trust him. However, multisig with bts contributors is a great idea fuzzy and might help data to manage risk....


Offline fuzzy

Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2015, 08:54:56 PM »
I have full confidence in datasecuritynode's integrity. He's been completely transparent, communicated effectively and seems highly competent. I voted to trust him. However, multisig with bts contributors is a great idea fuzzy and might help data to manage risk....

I am not worried about Data personally.  I have said this many times already.  My main reason for posting the poll has been explained.  It seems like I can back it fully without multisig from most everyone's perspective who has commented.  If I look at the poll though and I split the neutrals in half I come up with a slightly different answer.  I want to get to the heart of the community's thinking on this.  So I appreciate you guys giving feedback--that is the entire reason I posted this. 

However, 17 people is not quite enough to really give me a representative sample imho.  Many polls we have put up in the past end up with 80+ votes.  Of course this usually takes a few days so I will keep that in consideration. 

I am appreciative of the feedback as it helps me understand in depth what others are thinking and why.  I have been a champion of this project so I want to cover all bases before offering a high level of support because lets face it...this is a very powerful tool.  Yet at the same time there are not even developers of the BitShares platform who have had so many delegates.  So it will undoubtedly cause some concern for at least a group of people.  This post and poll is as much for them as for those who sit in the camp I tend to lean toward. 

I recently reached out to Data about having a hangout because we couldn't do it last week for obvious reasons.  So I think we have a week to come to an understanding. 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 08:57:55 PM by fuzzy »
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Offline fuzzy

Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2015, 09:07:17 PM »
the risk that jonathan is running away with the funds is minimal as well, because the miners will complain instantly.

so, i think not a big deal if they don't use multisig.

Unfuzzy here...I am controlling Fuzzy's account for the moment.  I am playing Devil's advocate: 
1) "Even if the miners complain instantly it wouldn't change anything if the pool fails and John and his ultra evil team at bunkerville decide they want to keep the remaining BTS."
2) "Miners will not complain if he keeps the extra BTS that is not used...only the original BTS holders will complain." 
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Offline Shentist

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Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2015, 09:15:59 PM »
the risk that jonathan is running away with the funds is minimal as well, because the miners will complain instantly.

so, i think not a big deal if they don't use multisig.

Unfuzzy here...I am controlling Fuzzy's account for the moment.  I am playing Devil's advocate: 
1) "Even if the miners complain instantly it wouldn't change anything if the pool fails and John and his ultra evil team at bunkerville decide they want to keep the remaining BTS."
2) "Miners will not complain if he keeps the extra BTS that is not used...only the original BTS holders will complain."

devils advocate again

1. how could anyone account how the funds are used? this would be a nightmare.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2015, 09:59:11 PM »
the risk that jonathan is running away with the funds is minimal as well, because the miners will complain instantly.

so, i think not a big deal if they don't use multisig.


Unfuzzy here...I am controlling Fuzzy's account for the moment.  I am playing Devil's advocate: 
1) "Even if the miners complain instantly it wouldn't change anything if the pool fails and John and his ultra evil team at bunkerville decide they want to keep the remaining BTS."
2) "Miners will not complain if he keeps the extra BTS that is not used...only the original BTS holders will complain."

devils advocate again

1. how could anyone account how the funds are used? this would be a nightmare.

Unfuzzy:
How would it?  Can we not see the payouts each day?  Can we not see how profitable the pool would be and then see the additional funds that required as an addon? Shouldn't this number of delegates come with some level of open accountability?

Nethyb figured out how many delegates he would need to keep it running before and idiot fuzzy apparently completely overlooked his bid. Nethy had to pay out somewhere in the realm of 500 a month just to keep it up...and that was out of pocket (what an epic fail fuzzy made overlooking that project early on eh?)
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Offline starspirit

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Re: Should minebitshares' 6 delegates have multisig? (poll)
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2015, 10:55:23 PM »
Tangential question, but why is minebitshares getting public funds? Is it essentially to pay the bonus payouts (5%+) on their mining earnings? Is that seen as a marketing ploy to help bring people into bitShares? The bonus payouts help those offering mining rigs into the system, but I'm wondering how this benefits the broader BitShares community. Not asking in criticism, just for clarity.

 

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