Author Topic: [BitShares 2.0 Technologies] Referral Rewards Program (Discussion)  (Read 10964 times)

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Offline fav

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Will all the transactions for harrypothead now be counted in the refer program?

no, if you move an account to another wallet everything will be wiped. see http://bitshares.github.io/technology/transferable-named-accounts/

Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

New user registers TODAY. His name is harrypothead

Later down the road 2.0 launches.

Same user registers a new name called harrypothead2 under the refer program of someone.

He decides to move his harrypothead name to his new harrypothead2 account that is under the refer program.

Will all the transactions for harrypothead now be counted in the refer program?
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Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

32:22: fuzzy : How will wallet host be compensated?

32:59: bytemaster : Wallet host will end up registered the most users and will be compensated by the referral program.

I worry about the referral program being used as the only funding method for wallet hosts. I presume a user can always take their identity with them and go to another wallet host. A user will likely to keep their account and associated metadata (web-of-trust, reputation) for life. But it is silly to think they will use the wallet provided by the same wallet provider for life, or perhaps even for more than a year. However, the wallet host that first signs up that user will be the one to get 80% of all the fees that account pays for life (or 80% of the lifetime member upgrade fee). What happens if a user signs up with one wallet provider, uses it for a few months and then switches to another wallet provider that the user uses for years? All of the transactions during those years will have 80% of their fees still go to the original wallet provider even though they are no longer the ones provide the service the user uses or investing in the development of the wallet to keep the user using their wallet. The incentives are broken.

This is why I suspect that wallet providers will still need to create (and only accept) transactions that also pay an additional small fee to the provider with each transaction (like the LightWallet did) as a better aligned revenue source. This is a little troubling because the fees are already pretty high for the sake of funding the referral program (although I guess the stakeholders can always reduce it). But if my suspicions are true, the high fees of the referral program will only be used to compensate marketers bringing in the new users (which is fine and what the purpose of the referral program should be) but not as a long-term solution for funding wallet providers.

I will tell you what might be a solution to this, and something I have been thinking on and likely will happen unless we see changes to the program.

If wallet provider WP1 referred a new user they get all their transactions in the program.

WP2 comes along that includes a kitchen sink. That user at WP1 wants to go there, but WP2 is only offering the kitchen sink for newly referred users. So they will either FORCE new user registration for their wallet using their refer.

You will likely just see a situation where accounts are left abandoned. With the ability to be able to transfer names as I understand it so far, I can have joeblow1 at WP1 and then needing to register a new user at WP2, I create joeblow2 and then transfer my name joeblow1 over (I may not have that right.. I haven't dived into how that works yet). The original BTS address is left abandoned on WP1 system.. jowblow goes about his merry way.

This is what the refer program is going to encourage in the wallet space at least the way I see it.
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Offline arhag

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32:22: fuzzy : How will wallet host be compensated?

32:59: bytemaster : Wallet host will end up registered the most users and will be compensated by the referral program.

I worry about the referral program being used as the only funding method for wallet hosts. I presume a user can always take their identity with them and go to another wallet host. A user will likely to keep their account and associated metadata (web-of-trust, reputation) for life. But it is silly to think they will use the wallet provided by the same wallet provider for life, or perhaps even for more than a year. However, the wallet host that first signs up that user will be the one to get 80% of all the fees that account pays for life (or 80% of the lifetime member upgrade fee). What happens if a user signs up with one wallet provider, uses it for a few months and then switches to another wallet provider that the user uses for years? All of the transactions during those years will have 80% of their fees still go to the original wallet provider even though they are no longer the ones provide the service the user uses or investing in the development of the wallet to keep the user using their wallet. The incentives are broken.

This is why I suspect that wallet providers will still need to create (and only accept) transactions that also pay an additional small fee to the provider with each transaction (like the LightWallet did) as a better aligned revenue source. This is a little troubling because the fees are already pretty high for the sake of funding the referral program (although I guess the stakeholders can always reduce it). But if my suspicions are true, the high fees of the referral program will only be used to compensate marketers bringing in the new users (which is fine and what the purpose of the referral program should be) but not as a long-term solution for funding wallet providers.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 05:18:48 am by arhag »

Offline clayop

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One more curious thing. 80% fee discount will be applied all type of fees? (Premium registration, symbol registration, Tx fee, etc.)
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Relevant clips from 6-8 Hangout (part 1) ...

32:22: fuzzy : How will wallet host be compensated?

32:59: bytemaster : Wallet host will end up registered the most users and will be compensated by the referral program.

33:35: bytemaster : All migration paths are documented on BitShares website. If you can't find an answer post a question on the forum. Short answer, every delegate who is 5% and below will be migrated as a Witness only. Any delegate over 5% will be migrated as a Witness and a Worker. And all initial delegate positions will be held by the developers until others are voted in. In the new system delegates have control over proposing changing transaction fees and blockchain parameters.

34:34: bytemaster : The referral cash back system is the centerpiece of BitShares 2.0. The idea is, we have different type of accounts, free regular user accounts do not qualify and pay transaction fees (approx 20 cents). Another account is a lifetime member, pays one time fee of about $100 (fees can be changed by delegates), gets 80% discount on all fees (cash back), can refer other users and get 80% of referred regular user fees. System cannot be abused. Target is to have half accounts lifetime accounts, half pay as you go users paying full transaction fees.

38:03: bytemaster : We also have an Annual Subscription Membership where you pay a $20 fee, get 50% off all transactions for year and 50% of referral income from referrals.

38:30: bytemaster : Every fee you get in a cash back must vest for 1 year. Incintive structure could be compromised otherwise.

51:46: bytemaster : It's designed to be profitable and the cost of user acquisition below the lifetime value of each user and in the long run should be deflationary, there is a fixed supply and spending limit. It should bring future fees into the present from users upgrading accounts. It should bring economic incentives to migrate users in bulk for merchants.


Offline clayop

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Is there any benefit for basic accounts if they refer annual or lifetime member? (e.g. 10% cashback)
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Offline jamesc


2. the internal webwallet should give some hints in regards to naming. just tried it and the faucet gave me a "only cheap names can be registered please choose another one" - BUT the webwallet wouldn't let me add another one until the first is registered.

https://github.com/bitshares/BitShares-JS/issues/89

Offline lil_jay890

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I think the $0.20 referal fee is fine.  The fee should be partially reimbursed by wallet providers.  It will create competition between wallet providers to either be a discount basic wallet and offer most of their collected fee back to customers or be a premium wallet that charges more for advanced features (good trading interface or more bells and whistles).

Also $0.20 buying power will go down with the constant inflation that the USD sees... It won't mean nearly as much in 10 years as it does now.

Offline carpet ride

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So merchants and marketers know they're using it right,  would be great to have referral system info graphix showing potential use cases for businesses.


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Offline Method-X

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My concern is that I think that the referral program should not be open-ended. There could be a fixed period of time set for it to operate to generate viral growth (which could be extended if necessary).

Then should come a point at which BitShares will grow on its own merits as the best system available (ie., once there is a critical mass of users), and then ALL of the transaction fees should go to the blockchain (be burned) to grow the value of our investments. After all, the DAC is meant to be profitable for the shareholders, not just for marketers (referrers), especially after they are no longer needed.

For example, I don't think that anyone is still be paid to refer new users to paypal, are they?

Referrals create demand for BTS. Demand means an increasing market cap. We don't have to be the most profitable DAC, only the most viral.

Offline Permie

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What this is missing is an incentive system for market makers.
+5%

How could shareholders wanting to provide liquidity to the DEX pool their funds together?
Perhaps a worker proposal for a market maker in each asset pair would get funded.
The profits could be shared between shareholders and the worker making the market with shareholder funds
JonnyBitcoin votes for liquidity and simplicity. Make him your proxy?
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Offline fav

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For those that missed the point ... the tx fee for base accounts is defined by shareholder approval .. if you don't like it .. vote for delegates that have a smaller fee

I expect  +5% BTS flat for a TX :D

Offline xeroc

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For those that missed the point ... the tx fee for base accounts is defined by shareholder approval .. if you don't like it .. vote for delegates that have a smaller fee

Offline EstefanTT

I'm worried the high fees for free account may slow mass adoption.

One of the great hings that bring crypto currency is the ability to make fast and almost free small transactions.

How someone could even consider pay 0,20$ fee when bying his coffee or a small subscription on the web ?

On the other side, I support 100% the referral concept.
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