Author Topic: Half-baked Elements of Bitshares 2.0 [first read]  (Read 13949 times)

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Offline starspirit

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Since you cannot print shares (past 3.7b) then you can reduce future flood risk if you let the fund be burned. How are people seriously trying to argue its the same thing?

Of course since "don't break share cap" is apparently not enforceable when shareholders can coordinate vote to hard fork then you should assume future owners will try to print shares and so we should just accept it.
It's definitely not the same thing. Whether you view it as a good or bad thing though, depends on one's perspective. It does make BTS much more like a share than a currency. See my description here, which is neither an attempt to promote or criticise it, only to clarify what it means...  https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,16812.msg215626.html#msg215626

Offline tonyk

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Since you cannot print shares (past 3.7b) then you can reduce future flood risk if you let the fund be burned. How are people seriously trying to argue its the same thing?

Well..if BM has said it is the same thing, you will  find fan-boys trying to prove it is the same thing... Other examples aside, I will never forget a picture of '2 rockets needed to be launched' shortly followed by 'a single bigger rocket is the only way to go' ...
« Last Edit: June 13, 2015, 10:59:22 pm by tonyk »
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline toast

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Since you cannot print shares (past 3.7b) then you can reduce future flood risk if you let the fund be burned. How are people seriously trying to argue its the same thing?

Of course since "don't break share cap" is apparently not enforceable when shareholders can coordinate vote to hard fork then you should assume future owners will try to print shares and so we should just accept it.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline monsterer

so far so good, now all that's left is the atomic trading of other major cryptocurrencies....

I still maintain this isn't possible, especially for currencies which are not based on bitcoin. You might be able to achieve a half way house if, for example, metaexchange was decentralised and every delegate also ran a metaexchange node.
My opinions do not represent those of metaexchange unless explicitly stated.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline VoR0220

Overall I think this is many shades of awesome.

But the high transaction fees concern me too. If you think about average Joe potentially using it to do his shopping, then saying it compares well to traditional electronic payment methods is irrelevant - because average joe doesn't pay those fees, the merchant does.Convincing someone to pay $0.20 per transaction or buy a subscription and still pay fees on every purchase is a hard sell compared to something which appears to them to be completely free. Since this hypothetical average Joe probably doesn't care about decentralization or disintermediating the banks and won't use things like the bond market or dynamic account permissions, there is very little benefit to this person to make up for the high fees.

This update potentially has everything in place for Bitshares to be used as a financial services platform by businesses and investors, but as a payment platform (which price stable currencies should be ideal for) I don't see any target market. Crypto-enthusiasts won't flock to it en masse because they like the idea of a coin possibly appreciating in value over time and don't like perceived centralization. But non crypto-enthusiasts don't have any real reason to want to use it either.

What are the benefits for somebody using BitUSD over Paypal and real USD, or bank account and debit card?

There needs to be enough advantages to overcome the fees and lack of convenient things like ATMs in every neighbourhood, or it doesn't matter how many people are trying to market it, people won't be interested.

BitUSD and other market pegged assets will likely be used in the same ways bitcoin is currently used. Prediction markets, gambling, buying "alternative" items, etc. It won't spread to mom and dad until a decade of more out. Please note that I'm not encouraging these activities, I'm just being brutally logical.

I actually do see it working to get people into the crypto space...whether or not it will keep them in Bitshares is another story. But then again....Bitshares collects the fees. I think Bitshares should focus on the trading aspects....so far so good, now all that's left is the atomic trading of other major cryptocurrencies....
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Tuck Fheman

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I need some more sub 3k bts

NEVER AGAIN.


Also, given the cup and handle formation that looks to be forming, you'd better buy the sub 4000 sat BTS as fast as possible.

;)

« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 07:48:36 am by Tuck Fheman »

Offline xeroc

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1. There is no more BTS burning. No more dividends

....Anyway this matter is easily fixable – by setting 3 way split instead of the proposed 2 way (80%/20% for referral program/ future spending’s fund), by just adding % to be burnt

Of course there is another way to do this, another way which allows actually even more aggressively  removing/burning of BTS

https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene/issues/37

Thanks for listening to the feed back from the community BM!  +5%

Bam .. power to the shareholders!!

No one can claim BM is not listening to the community!

Offline Empirical1.2

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We were pretty bullish on pushing the referral system ourselves, but now we have no choice to back out from integrating it.
I don't see any reason why a kid using paypal would pay 80 USD and use this instead.

There are lots of things you can't do with PayPal. Their rules are very strict. For example, you can't gamble (among many other use cases).

BitShares can't offer blockchain based gambling either at least not in a way that benefits BTS shareholders because of the risk of losing the Chinese market.

But until the current financial system experiences serious problems again, much of the near term profit in crypto will be derived from areas such as gambling.  (Over half the companies advertising on CMC/Coindesk these days seem gambling related. ( www.Vitalbet.com , http://www.dragons.tl/ , www.anonibet.com , https://www.betcoin.tm/circle/ )

BTS 2.0 would be ideal for this, it's very unfortunate that we won't be participating & profiting.   

Hopefully we'll have a prediction market or some other applications from BitShares PLAY at some point.

Many BTC based bookmakers have large problems with BTC volatility and are required to hedge quite a lot, BitUSD would be ideal for them so hopefully we'll have some third party sites soon enough bringing in that market and increasing volume even if we won't profit from it directly.

Speaking of gambling platforms, I reached out to CoinGaming a few days ago to see if they would be interested in using BitShares to build a casino platform to enhance the usability of their product. Hope they bite.  8)

 +5% Good idea

If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline robrigo

We were pretty bullish on pushing the referral system ourselves, but now we have no choice to back out from integrating it.
I don't see any reason why a kid using paypal would pay 80 USD and use this instead.

There are lots of things you can't do with PayPal. Their rules are very strict. For example, you can't gamble (among many other use cases).

BitShares can't offer blockchain based gambling either at least not in a way that benefits BTS shareholders because of the risk of losing the Chinese market.

But until the current financial system experiences serious problems again, much of the near term profit in crypto will be derived from areas such as gambling.  (Over half the companies advertising on CMC/Coindesk these days seem gambling related. ( www.Vitalbet.com , http://www.dragons.tl/ , www.anonibet.com , https://www.betcoin.tm/circle/ )

BTS 2.0 would be ideal for this, it's very unfortunate that we won't be participating & profiting.   

Hopefully we'll have a prediction market or some other applications from BitShares PLAY at some point.

Many BTC based bookmakers have large problems with BTC volatility and are required to hedge quite a lot, BitUSD would be ideal for them so hopefully we'll have some third party sites soon enough bringing in that market and increasing volume even if we won't profit from it directly.

Speaking of gambling platforms, I reached out to CoinGaming a few days ago to see if they would be interested in using BitShares to build a casino platform to enhance the usability of their product. Hope they bite.  8)

Offline Empirical1.2

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We were pretty bullish on pushing the referral system ourselves, but now we have no choice to back out from integrating it.
I don't see any reason why a kid using paypal would pay 80 USD and use this instead.

There are lots of things you can't do with PayPal. Their rules are very strict. For example, you can't gamble (among many other use cases).

BitShares can't offer blockchain based gambling either at least not in a way that benefits BTS shareholders because of the risk of losing the Chinese market.

But until the current financial system experiences serious problems again, much of the near term profit in crypto will be derived from areas such as gambling.  (Over half the companies advertising on CMC/Coindesk these days seem gambling related. ( www.Vitalbet.com , http://www.dragons.tl/ , www.anonibet.com , https://www.betcoin.tm/circle/ )

BTS 2.0 would be ideal for this, it's very unfortunate that we won't be participating & profiting.   

Hopefully we'll have a prediction market or some other applications from BitShares PLAY at some point.

Many BTC based bookmakers have large problems with BTC volatility and are required to hedge quite a lot, BitUSD would be ideal for them so hopefully we'll have some third party sites soon enough bringing in that market and increasing volume even if we won't profit from it directly. 
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline xeroc

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I think the  entire paypal comparison is flawed because Paypal had given 10 usd to every user that signed up on the platform. Is bitshares doing so ?
A marketer could decide to do so .. e.g. moonstone, or faucet.bitshares.org (cryptonomex) ..
it's up to the marketers

it's only possible if we had a secure system to prevent cheating.
Hm .. I can recall BM saying something about "identity verification" to be an integral part of VOTE!

Offline Method-X

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I think the  entire paypal comparison is flawed because Paypal had given 10 usd to every user that signed up on the platform. Is bitshares doing so ?
A marketer could decide to do so .. e.g. moonstone, or faucet.bitshares.org (cryptonomex) ..
it's up to the marketers

it's only possible if we had a secure system to prevent cheating.

 +5% Hence it must be based on incurred fees.

Offline Method-X

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I think the  entire paypal comparison is flawed because Paypal had given 10 usd to every user that signed up on the platform. Is bitshares doing so ?

$80 for premium users. How many users will actually convert to premium is anyones guess.

Offline xeroc

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I think the  entire paypal comparison is flawed because Paypal had given 10 usd to every user that signed up on the platform. Is bitshares doing so ?
A marketer could decide to do so .. e.g. moonstone, or faucet.bitshares.org (cryptonomex) ..
it's up to the marketers

it's only possible if we had a secure system to prevent cheating.

"we" don't need one .. the marketer needs one .. and is free to chose .. from facebook to ID verification

Offline fav

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I think the  entire paypal comparison is flawed because Paypal had given 10 usd to every user that signed up on the platform. Is bitshares doing so ?
A marketer could decide to do so .. e.g. moonstone, or faucet.bitshares.org (cryptonomex) ..
it's up to the marketers

it's only possible if we had a secure system to prevent cheating.