When will we have public testnet for Bitshares 2.0 ?

[Ander]

(B.T.W. - this is not my true sentiment. I'm happy to wait for as long as it takes)

I'm not.  Things not being released in a timely manner has been the major downfall of this project in the past.  You cannot just keep failing to deliver forever.  I understand that 1.0 got cut due to the decision to move to 2.0 and fix all the mistakes, and I support that.  The blog post explaining the lessons learned from 0.x and the fixes made was excellent.  But 2.0 needs to eventually come out, in a reasonable time frame, not just be vaporware.

[hadrian]

The dev team needs to learn to multiply their time estimates by 2.5 before announcing them to the world. :P

Maybe they already do. Maybe it should be repeatedly multiplied by 2.5 until they are confident that there have been enough iterations of multiplication by a factor of 2.5, and then that result should be multiplied by 2.5? :P

(B.T.W. - this is not my true sentiment. I'm happy to wait for as long as it takes)

[Ander]

The dev team needs to learn to multiply their time estimates by 2.5 before announcing them to the world. :P



Its just like that Silicon Valley episode.  Gavin Belson tells Houli board of directors that Nucleus is almost ready and will be mind blowing. 

Gavin meets with lead developer who tells him Nucleus is 6 weeks behind. 

Underlings overhear this and comment "she thinks we are only 6 weeks behind?  We are at least 15 weeks behind".

[Tuck Fheman]

Estimation of a delivery date is near impossible even for a crm application, let alone an experimental cryptographic distributed/decentrialized application.

So you're saying Newmine not only ask questions of BitShares, but all teh application dev teams. Damn you Newmine!

[lakerta06]

I guess too few people here are in software development business. Estimation of a delivery date is near impossible even for a crm application, let alone an experimental cryptographic distributed/decentrialized application.

Please be patient.

[Ander]

Goal is this month.

Of which year? :) It's an ambitious set of dreams.

You have no idea how ambitious.
We always think bigger, Pinky.      :)

You guys could never be accused of not thinking big enough.  The accusations of saying something will be out in month X and then having it not come out are quite accurate however.

[Tuck Fheman]

I actually laughed at this  :P +5%

That makes 2 of us. ;)

[Akado]

Newmine is in total control of the release date.

Newmine also caused Greece to default.

I'm currently awaiting a response from the IMF on why/how they've allowed Newmine (a single entity) to assume control, at the demise of everyone else.

This speaks to the incompetence at the head of the IMF.

I actually laughed at this  :P +5%

[Tuck Fheman]

Newmine is in total control of the release date.

Newmine also caused Greece to default.

I'm currently awaiting a response from the IMF on why/how they've allowed Newmine (a single entity) to assume control, at the demise of everyone else.

This speaks to the incompetence at the head of the IMF.

[nomoreheroes7]

Until we can address every concern about what happened 2 years ago, we do not feel confident giving you our 100,000 TPS smartchain.  So please, sit back and wait longer while we continue to address where the AGS funds went (satoshi for satoshi), and when newmine has finally accepted that nobody can change the past, then, and only then, will you get to play with our new invention.  Why are you in such a hurry for Dan to build your new 2.0 blockchain anyway?  Newmine is in total control of the release date.  Ask him when he is going to stop wasting Dan's precious concentration time with topics that have no bearing on the 2.0 release.

My thoughts exactly. What a ridiculous waste of time.

You have to realize by now that nothing you say will ever satisfy newmine, right BM? I can just see him now, thinking of new ways to push your buttons while jerking off to your emotional, long-winded post in that other thread. Disgusting.  ::)

[bubble789]

"Hosk" and Krills lol

[fav]

-snip-

+5%

[allseeinguy]

^^^ couldnt have said it better myself

[Erlich Bachman]

The reason for the delay is simple.  We chose to delay the release while we addressed the more pertinent issues of past BitShares dev funding expenditures:

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17292.msg220480.html#msg220480
(this is just one of hundreds of posts on this super hot topic)

Until we can address every concern about what happened 2 years ago, we do not feel confident giving you our 100,000 TPS smartchain.  So please, sit back and wait longer while we continue to address where the AGS funds went (satoshi for satoshi), and when newmine has finally accepted that nobody can change the past, then, and only then, will you get to play with our new invention.  Why are you in such a hurry for Dan to build your new 2.0 blockchain anyway?  Newmine is in total control of the release date.  Ask him when he is going to stop wasting Dan's precious concentration time with topics that have no bearing on the 2.0 release.

Look at all the progress that Dan is making toward convincing Chuck that he is super awesome.  Where else do you think that Dan should have spent these past several hours (and that's just the tip of the iceberg).  Would you rather have been downloading your 2.0 testnet today?  Sorry, but Chuck was the cause of the delay.  But it's OK.  Look at what Dan produced for us today:

Check out all that time, effort, remembering, and concentration, that went into crafting such a thoughtful comprehensive and well punctuated post:

such bullets:

@newmine we will never reach consensus so long as you continue to attack a straw man.     Lets identify some points of agreement, let me know which statements you disagree with and why:

1. Original BitShares Plan - use proof of work to mine 100% of everything with 0 pre-mine.   A $500,000 budget from Angel funding was available to accomplish this plan.   I3 had to purchase vast majority of its stake via electrical costs, cloud computing costs, mining hardware costs, or direct purchases.    Any stake I3 had came at the expense of the budget for development.     

a. Was that plan fair?   "Yes"
b. Was that plan sustainable?  "No",  lacking funds to develop BTS would never materialize and PTS would be worthless.
c. What options would I3 have:  a) don't mine or buy more PTS,  b) sell any PTS we did acquire and use fund for Plan B and be accused of running a Pump and Dump. 
d. Under this plan I3 makes no profit  (0 dips)

2. BitShares Plan B.. Angel Shares.  Under this plan I3 grew its budget from $500,000 to $2M (after BTC price decline) which allowed BTS to be built and released creating $10M of value for PTS holders and $10M of value for AGS holders.
a. I3 developers received an average paycheck for their time: a fair trade.
b. I3 retained 0 stake in BTS from AGS outside their paycheck.

So far the community gave $2M and received $20M using post-bear market prices... unequal trade favoring community.
So far the developers gave $2M worth of labor and received $2M worth of value.... equal trade, hardly selfish, greedy, or double dipping.

3. Is everything fair at this point?   If so then the developers are free to walk away, they did their job the best they could with the budget they had.   

a. If you assume the developers had 0 savings at the start, how do you propose they continue from this point forward?  How many man-hours of labor do you feel is enough before the developers are free to move on with a clean conscience and the moral high ground?  Give us an actual number. 

4. Once we know how much labor the DEVS owed the community for their $2M worth of BTC, they can know when they are free to quit without being greedy.  Assume the DEVs worked every hour they owed.  What options do we have?
a. The devs can quit, but that wouldn't be good for BTS
b. The devs could work part time, and work on BTS as a hobby (but why should they?  they have no more debt nor any stake in BTS). 
c. The devs could start a new blockchain that they actually own a cut in using the public domain work of BTS.   Not good for BTS, but great for Devs.
d. The devs could write all new code and start a new blockchain
e.  The devs could allow stakeholders to vote in dilution so that the Devs could continue to work.   How many man hours do the Devs owe the network in exchange for the meager 4000 BTS per day per person before they are not considered greedy?

@newmine for all your accusations of the devs being greedy, you seem to have missed that every single developer has received less money than they could have made working elsewhere and simply buying BTS with their surplus income.  From this perspective, every single developer has been giving their time to BitShares for free in what amounts to charity work because they are poorer today for having worked on BTS than having worked other jobs.

So... I have just TWO questions for you @newmine how much labor do we owe you and what dollar value did we receive in exchange for that labor?    How much per hour do you get paid at your job?

phew, I get tired simply skipping over it...

That was just one of many large blocks of Dan's concentration time that was spent stroking newmine's ego rather than building our BitSahres 2.0 test chain.  Only when newmine is ready for you to test the new 2.0 blockchain will you be permitted to.

Krills needs his diaper changed too because one minute he wants to Dan to spend his time addressing newmine's historical concerns:

damn right

and the next minute he wants Dan to code:

you guys always take longer.
when bm said this month,never believe him.

Neither of which can be done simultaneously in this reality.

So until the babies have been fed and burped, and learn that no man has yet discovered a way to be in 2 places simultaneously performing 2 different productive tasks (like the rest of us here have already learned at some point in our lives) then there can be no 2.0

Is there anyone else here besides Hosk, and Krills who has a concern that is so important that we need Dan to drop the 2.0 development and immediately discuss it at this very (and possible critical? .... no? ...) moment.

[Riverhead]

We shot several of them who didn't give us the right answer.  Didn't seem to accelerate the release, but it made us feel better.

:)

Hah! Can I give you my manager's number?

[Stan]

Goal is this month.

Of which year? :) It's an ambitious set of dreams.

You have no idea how ambitious.
We always think bigger, Pinky.      :)

No,you guys always take longer.
when bm said this month,never believe him.

We admit that every time someone asks us for an estimate.

I sat in this week's staff meeting where Dan went around the room asking every developer what it would take to get a test net out this week.

We shot several of them who didn't give us the right answer.  Didn't seem to accelerate the release, but it made us feel better.

:)
 

[mike623317]

Goal is this month.

Of which year? :) It's an ambitious set of dreams.

You have no idea how ambitious.
We always think bigger, Pinky.      :)

No,you guys always take longer.
when bm said this month,never believe him.

.. Indeed, we're so much like ethereum and maidsafe it's erie. After all, what coding have these guys done in a year? Hardly any right?

I'm sure it's on its way

[Krills]

Goal is this month.

Of which year? :) It's an ambitious set of dreams.

You have no idea how ambitious.
We always think bigger, Pinky.      :)

No,you guys always take longer.
when bm said this month,never believe him.

[Stan]

Goal is this month.

Of which year? :) It's an ambitious set of dreams.

You have no idea how ambitious.
We always think bigger, Pinky.      :)

[bitmeat]

Goal is this month.

Of which year? :) It's an ambitious set of dreams.

[maqifrnswa]

Remember that you can run your private testnet now if you want to start testing things.

Should we have a sticky in General Discussion about the private test net with a disclaimer/instructions?

See "Running Private Testnet"
https://github.com/cryptonomex/graphene/blob/master/README.md

I think that, for now, running graphene requires the user to do a lot of debug themselves. Leaving instructions with the github account makes sense for now, as that's where those who are comfortable with source will be getting it.

[phillyguy]

Remember that you can run your private testnet now if you want to start testing things.

Should we have a sticky in General Discussion about the private test net with a disclaimer/instructions?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ElMato]

Remember that you can run your private testnet now if you want to start testing things.

[clayop]

Goal is this month.

what now?

Also curious

[Krills]

Goal is this month.

what now?

[alt]

Goal is this month.

:D :D :D

[bytemaster]

Goal is this month.

[Krills]

this summer

[emski]

When will we have public testnet for Bitshares 2.0 ?