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Offline bytemaster

What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« on: June 12, 2015, 10:45:58 PM »

What if you combined Confidential Transactions (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1085273.0) with Stealth Addresses?
What if you could do this while still processing 100,000 transactions per second?
What if Cryptonomex's first worker proposal was to implement this at a protocol level (no GUI support) for 2M BTS?

Stealth Transfers enable users to maintain their financial privacy even though all transactions are public.  Ie: better than Dash or other alternatives.

Every account would have three balances:

Public Balance - every can see the balance changes and the parties involved
Blinded Balance - everyone can see who is transacting but not the amounts involved
Stealth Balance - both the amounts and parties involved are completely obscured

Account owners may set a flag that allows their account to receive(or not) transfers of these kinds Asset issuers can enable or disable the use of each of these types of accounts.

Using the "temp account" which has no permissions required, users can transfer a stealth balance to the temp account and then use the temp account to register a new account. In this way users can use stealth funds to create anonymous accounts with which they can perform other actions that are not compatible with blinded balances (such as market orders)

Stealth transfers that do not specify any account id cannot pay referral fees so 100% of the transaction fee is paid to the network.
Stealth transfers can have an arbitrarily large size and therefore the transaction fee for stealth transfers is based purely on the data size of the transaction.

« Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 10:48:32 PM by bytemaster »
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Offline sittingduck

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Re: What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2015, 10:57:36 PM »
Nice


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Offline jabbajabbaつ◕_◕つ

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Re: What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2015, 10:57:50 PM »
stealth + 5%... sounds good

Offline arhag

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Re: What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2015, 11:26:40 PM »
Didn't stealth addresses (aka TITAN) give all kinds of problems which was the reason they were removed in 2.0? How are stealth addresses going to be done differently this time to avoid all of those complications? In particular, how do lightweight wallets reliably keep track of all their balances without access to the full blockchain and without compromising their privacy? Is the compromise some kind of observer private key that is shared with the wallet host (meaning your wallet host knows the accounts you transact with but not the amounts but the rest of the world doesn't know both)? How does voting work with confidential transactions? Wouldn't only public BTS balances be able to vote for delegates/witnesses/workers?


Offline sittingduck

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Re: What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2015, 11:30:23 PM »
Confidential addresses couldn't vote because no one knows the balance. 

Light wallets need out of band notification.   


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Offline arhag

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Re: What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2015, 11:44:26 PM »
Confidential addresses couldn't vote because no one knows the balance. 

Yeah, which means people protecting their BTS balances will be in opposition to network security.

What if it was possible to count some of the blinded BTS votes if the owner elected to share the blinding factor with some trusted third party (thus exposing their balance amount to that third party)? You could have some subset of balances that all voted for witness 8, and the trusted third party could provide proof that the summation of the blinded values of all the accounts in this subset is a BTS amount X (they can sum all the blinded factors they collect and use that to sign the proof). Then the network could recognize that and add X votes to witness 8's approval rating.

Light wallets need out of band notification.   

But what happens if you lose your local data (but not your private key). You in theory have enough information to recover access to your funds if you had a full client with access to the blockchain. But at 100,000 tx/s it is not feasible. And you don't want to give your private key away to someone to do it for you because they could steal your funds. Observer keys could allow you to expose your financial history to a trusted third party (but not access) for the sake of recovering your account from a single brain key imported into a lightweight wallet.

Offline Akado

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Re: What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2015, 11:51:43 PM »
with the new multisig system wouldn't it be possible to create a general account and them make every fund a user sends, pass through before reaching the destiny? Then automate the timings of each transaction, ie. i want to send 100 bts to user X, i send them to that general account, which would then send 10 bts, then 20 bts, etc to user X. Making everyone's transactions pass through and with TITAN, would it be possible to know the origin of the transactions?

However, I think the biggest problem we have is anonymous voting. Once that's figured out, tx will be too. But private transactions with votes being public jeopardizes the network
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Offline sittingduck

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Re: What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2015, 12:45:55 AM »
Privacy means more personal responsibility for tracking keys and larger wallets.   Seems like a reasonable trade off.


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Offline rgcrypto

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Re: What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2015, 01:45:41 AM »
I think I peed a little...

Offline yellowecho

Re: What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2015, 02:15:13 AM »
amazing. a no brainer


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Offline merivercap

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Re: What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2015, 02:26:45 AM »
Yeah this is great.  I heard Greg Maxwell discuss this at the Sidechains Bitcoin meetup.  It seems like a very good and efficient solution. 
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Offline bubble789

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Re: What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2015, 02:34:48 AM »
stealth + 5%... sounds good

this is good haha

Offline oco101

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Offline puppies

Re: What if BitShares could have perfect privacy?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2015, 05:50:51 AM »
Depending upon the payout terms, and vesting schedule I would most certainly vote for a delegate that promoted paying 2M BTS to workers to enable this system.

With that on topic comment above, I feel liberated to quote
with the new multisig system wouldn't it be possible to create a general account and them make every fund a user sends, pass through before reaching the destiny? Then automate the timings of each transaction, ie. i want to send 100 bts to user X, i send them to that general account, which would then send 10 bts, then 20 bts, etc to user X. Making everyone's transactions pass through and with TITAN, would it be possible to know the origin of the transactions?

However, I think the biggest problem we have is anonymous voting. Once that's figured out, tx will be too. But private transactions with votes being public jeopardizes the network

and to bring in an old favorite.  Spooner. from no treason 6
Quote
NT.6.2.14   7. As all the different votes are given secretly (by secret ballot), there is no legal means of knowing, from the votes themselves, who votes for, and who votes against, the Constitution. Therefore, voting affords no legal evidence that any particular individual supports the Constitution. And where there can be no legal evidence that any particular individual supports the Constitution, it cannot legally be said that anybody supports it. It is clearly impossible to have any legal proof of the intentions of large numbers of men, where there can be no legal proof of the intentions of any particular one of them.
NT.6.2.15   8. There being no legal proof of any man's intentions, in voting, we can only conjecture them. As a conjecture, it is probable, that a very large proportion of those who vote, do so on this principle, viz., that if, by voting, they could but get the government into their own hands (or that of their friends), and use its powers against their opponents, they would then willingly support the Constitution; but if their opponents are to have the power, and use it against them, then they would not willingly support the Constitution.
NT.6.2.16   In short, men’s voluntary support of the Constitution is doubtless, in most cases, wholly contingent upon the question whether, by means of the Constitution, they can make themselves masters, or are to be made slaves.
NT.6.2.17   Such contingent consent as that is, in law and reason, no consent at all.
NT.6.2.18   9. As everybody who supports the Constitution by voting (if there are any such) does so secretly (by secret ballot), and in a way to avoid all personal responsibility for the acts of his agents or representatives, it cannot legally or reasonably be said that anybody at all supports the Constitution by voting. No man can reasonably or legally be said to do such a thing as assent to, or support, the Constitution, unless he does it openly, and in a way to make himself personally responsible for the acts of his agents, so long as they act within the limits of the power he delegates to them.
NT.6.2.19   10. As all voting is secret (by secret ballot), and as all secret governments are necessarily only secret bands of robbers, tyrants, and murderers, the general fact that our government is practically carried on by means of such voting, only proves that there is among us a secret band of robbers, tyrants, and murderers, whose purpose is to rob, enslave, and, so far as necessary to accomplish their purposes, murder, the rest of the people. The simple fact of the existence of such a band does nothing towards proving that “the people of the United States,” or any one of them, voluntarily supports the Constitution.
NT.6.2.20   For all the reasons that have now been given, voting furnishes no legal evidence as to who the particular individuals are (if there are any), who voluntarily support the Constitution. It therefore furnishes no legal evidence that anybody supports it voluntarily.

I think it rather elegantly explains the reasons why a secret vote could never work.  It is admittedly off topic, but a good read none the less.
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