Author Topic: Economic Philosophy i.e. Why Socialism is Bad  (Read 6059 times)

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Offline Thom


Countries that have the best quality of life have a mix of both. Privatization where it makes sense and socialization where it makes sense. Germany, France, Japan, Denmark, Canada, etc. For example health care, education, and pharma as for-profit institutions are in conflict of interest (i.e. treatments are more profitable than cures). Places where it makes sense are consumer goods and non utility services.

Not as cut and dry as that but any system that tries to apply one philosophy to all things is doomed. You either end up with North Korea or where the USA is headed. How many ISPs do we have now? Two? How's that working out?

mixed social models are inevitable bc of the vast mixture of the species we call human; hybrid systems are also likely more robust than forced one-size-fits-all alts. however, my gripe with anything political is the horrible notion that it's acceptable to use violence to shape peoples' lives in any direction. humans are social and would form all sorts of collective associations (e.g. insurance pools) on their own; no violence needed to force anyone's great ideas on the rest.

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Offline cylonmaker2053

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hopefully blockchain tech is part of a broader social revolution where people can peacefully choose alternative systems designed to meet all sorts of wants and needs. If the BTS mission of creating viable p2p asset markets is successful, that, alone, would be a massive disruption to the predatory gatekeeper / oligopoly world of finance that currently dominates. BTC is another great example of having the potential liberate people from banking cartels and financial repression, in general.

#vivaLaBlockchain

Offline cylonmaker2053

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Countries that have the best quality of life have a mix of both. Privatization where it makes sense and socialization where it makes sense. Germany, France, Japan, Denmark, Canada, etc. For example health care, education, and pharma as for-profit institutions are in conflict of interest (i.e. treatments are more profitable than cures). Places where it makes sense are consumer goods and non utility services.

Not as cut and dry as that but any system that tries to apply one philosophy to all things is doomed. You either end up with North Korea or where the USA is headed. How many ISPs do we have now? Two? How's that working out?

mixed social models are inevitable bc of the vast mixture of the species we call human; hybrid systems are also likely more robust than forced one-size-fits-all alts. however, my gripe with anything political is the horrible notion that it's acceptable to use violence to shape peoples' lives in any direction. humans are social and would form all sorts of collective associations (e.g. insurance pools) on their own; no violence needed to force anyone's great ideas on the rest.

Offline puppies

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Some really great stuff here.  To add my thoughts in no particular order or relevance

I thought the video was very good.  Discussion perhaps better.  '

I agree that we have to be careful with labels, and the emotional attachment that we have towards them.

I dislike utilitarian arguments because they can so easily be used to justify truly evil things.  I am shocked to hear some defend coercion.  Perhaps I am misunderstanding.  Perhaps they are saying that the best way to prevent coercion is to monopolize it.  Perhaps I still don't understand.

In a free society I think it is also important not to forcibly socialize the cost of exclusion.  This tends towards increasing the cost of accumulating property, as you bear the cost of protecting it.

I want to see each individual responsible for protection of their own property (it all comes down to property rights).  I would like to see each individual free to socialize that responsibility or hold it alone, or any number of things I can't even think of.  I would like to see a plurality of solutions, and not one solution for all.

I think many people get suckered into a false duality between being pro business and being anti business.  It is possible to be pro freedom and not lick a corporate jockstrap nor curse them as our oppressors.

and finally.




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Offline rgcrypto

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To return to the reptilian brain issue which is in essence "fight of flight response", I have experience in my own life how I am able to stop knee jerk response to outside events by using meditative practice(awareness of breathing, logic, perspective, etc.) which use other part of the brain. (neocortex for example)

The Law of Use (that which is not use is lost) dictate that the more we are able to control use the part of the brain that is connected to logic and language, the less power the unused part of the brain has over our lives.

On a macro level, the mass media is mind control to keep us in a state of fear...which in turn stimulate our reptilian brain. :(

Offline Thom

And here we come down to the essence of our beliefs.

Is consciousness a manifestation of a specific collection of matter or is it the other way around?

I don't think we can provide empirical proof it is the later, yet we cannot explain what basic organization of matter is required to produce consciousness.

Examples of unusual and unexplained phenomenon challenge us to ask this question and try to find a rational explanation for what we observe. Many dismiss these anomalies as would people of the 10th century dismiss radio waves. Others attribute such things as the hand of a diety or "spiritual" influences.

There is so very much we don't know. Although I think 5 sense reality and the scientific method are extremely important tools to seek truth, it is the height of arrogance to say that's the only way possible to do so.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Xeldal

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According to your logic I should be able to use my "will" to stop myself from blinking, stop my heart from beating and stop my lungs from breathing.  I may be able to hold my breath, slow my heart rate, and keep my eyes open, but eventually I need to breath and blink and pump blood through my body.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjTuYsy7NKg

He stopped his heart for 20 seconds with his will.

Yes, every parasympathetic function of the body can be controlled by the sympathetic(The power of the Will)

We are much more powerful than we are thought to believe.

Ken Wilber Stops His Brain Waves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFFMtq5g8N4

Offline rgcrypto

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According to your logic I should be able to use my "will" to stop myself from blinking, stop my heart from beating and stop my lungs from breathing.  I may be able to hold my breath, slow my heart rate, and keep my eyes open, but eventually I need to breath and blink and pump blood through my body.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjTuYsy7NKg

He stopped his heart for 20 seconds with his will.

Yes, every parasympathetic function of the body can be controlled by the sympathetic(The power of the Will)

We are much more powerful than we are thought to believe.

Offline lil_jay890

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Also, we must also let go in the belief in authority...which may take a few centuries.

Until then...Vote with your feet!

Awesome!  +5%

Although I seriously doubt ridding humanity of the belief in authority will happen in my lifetime, I think it could happen faster than a few centuries once momentum in the paradigm shift begins to move in that direction. You're right tho, in how deeply entrenched in our psyche it is. Here's hoping Larken Rose will live a long and fruitful life!

People went into the Wild West in search of freedom from authority.
The first thing they found they needed was a sheriff.

We will wind up needing a digital sheriff.

That's just evidence that at their core violence was still present. When we overcome our deep seated appeal to violence to solve problems the need for authority will dramatically be reduced. How will disagreements be settled? by 3rd party arbitration of course.

It is such a radically different context for life I don't think we can even truly grasp it now, as we're so deeply conditioned to think with the violence within us. As rational, peaceful parenting and respect for children increases, so will the violence in society. That's my opinion anyway.

As long as we have our lizard brain we will always have violence... It's in our nature

With all due respect what you're saying here is you've lost YOUR WILL to overcome that "lizard brain", you have made A CHOICE away from freedom and towards enslavement. Putting responsibility on a "lizard brain" is like saying, "I'll probably die young because it's in my genetics", which is an excuse to not take care of your body. You become passive and refuse to exert your will to control that which you may.

@rgcrypto - thanks so much for The Maxtrix Decoded, it blew me away! For those you may not be familiar with Mark Passio, he has been interviewed many times by Jan Irvin on Gnostic Media. I highly recommend his work as well.

When you say "will" you are talking about using a conscious effort to overcome and control something that is subconscious and deeply routed in our DNA.  According to your logic I should be able to use my "will" to stop myself from blinking, stop my heart from beating and stop my lungs from breathing.  I may be able to hold my breath, slow my heart rate, and keep my eyes open, but eventually I need to breath and blink and pump blood through my body.

Our bodies are filled with chemicals and hormones that are released when certain subconscious parameters are met.  These chemicals can cause a range of reactions including fear and violence.  Everyone has different parameters and thresholds for the release of the chemicals, but we all have them.  Unless you plan on removing adrenaline and testosterone from our bodies you won't remove violence.

Offline Thom

Also, we must also let go in the belief in authority...which may take a few centuries.

Until then...Vote with your feet!

Awesome!  +5%

Although I seriously doubt ridding humanity of the belief in authority will happen in my lifetime, I think it could happen faster than a few centuries once momentum in the paradigm shift begins to move in that direction. You're right tho, in how deeply entrenched in our psyche it is. Here's hoping Larken Rose will live a long and fruitful life!

People went into the Wild West in search of freedom from authority.
The first thing they found they needed was a sheriff.

We will wind up needing a digital sheriff.

That's just evidence that at their core violence was still present. When we overcome our deep seated appeal to violence to solve problems the need for authority will dramatically be reduced. How will disagreements be settled? by 3rd party arbitration of course.

It is such a radically different context for life I don't think we can even truly grasp it now, as we're so deeply conditioned to think with the violence within us. As rational, peaceful parenting and respect for children increases, so will the violence in society. That's my opinion anyway.

As long as we have our lizard brain we will always have violence... It's in our nature

With all due respect what you're saying here is you've lost YOUR WILL to overcome that "lizard brain", you have made A CHOICE away from freedom and towards enslavement. Putting responsibility on a "lizard brain" is like saying, "I'll probably die young because it's in my genetics", which is an excuse to not take care of your body. You become passive and refuse to exert your will to control that which you may.

@rgcrypto - thanks so much for The Maxtrix Decoded, it blew me away! For those you may not be familiar with Mark Passio, he has been interviewed many times by Jan Irvin on Gnostic Media. I highly recommend his work as well.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html

Offline rgcrypto

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Neocortex is where it's at baby. (See the NEO allegory of the Matrix Decoded -> https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17006.0.html)

Offline lil_jay890

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Also, we must also let go in the belief in authority...which may take a few centuries.

Until then...Vote with your feet!

Awesome!  +5%

Although I seriously doubt ridding humanity of the belief in authority will happen in my lifetime, I think it could happen faster than a few centuries once momentum in the paradigm shift begins to move in that direction. You're right tho, in how deeply entrenched in our psyche it is. Here's hoping Larken Rose will live a long and fruitful life!

People went into the Wild West in search of freedom from authority.
The first thing they found they needed was a sheriff.

We will wind up needing a digital sheriff.

That's just evidence that at their core violence was still present. When we overcome our deep seated appeal to violence to solve problems the need for authority will dramatically be reduced. How will disagreements be settled? by 3rd party arbitration of course.

It is such a radically different context for life I don't think we can even truly grasp it now, as we're so deeply conditioned to think with the violence within us. As rational, peaceful parenting and respect for children increases, so will the violence in society. That's my opinion anyway.

As long as we have our lizard brain we will always have violence... It's in our nature

Offline Troglodactyl

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Also, we must also let go in the belief in authority...which may take a few centuries.

Until then...Vote with your feet!

Awesome!  +5%

Although I seriously doubt ridding humanity of the belief in authority will happen in my lifetime, I think it could happen faster than a few centuries once momentum in the paradigm shift begins to move in that direction. You're right tho, in how deeply entrenched in our psyche it is. Here's hoping Larken Rose will live a long and fruitful life!

People went into the Wild West in search of freedom from authority.
The first thing they found they needed was a sheriff.

We will wind up needing a digital sheriff.

"Need" in order to accomplish what exactly?  What is the end in question, and does it justify the use of any means necessary?  When it's framed simply as a need, the implication is that the costs and consequences are irrelevant, because there's no other choice.  There's always another choice.

I think a legitimate government can derive just authority from the consent of the governed, but only if the governed possess the authority in question to begin with, and if they actually consent.

Offline rgcrypto

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Also, we must also let go in the belief in authority...which may take a few centuries.

Until then...Vote with your feet!

Awesome!  +5%

Although I seriously doubt ridding humanity of the belief in authority will happen in my lifetime, I think it could happen faster than a few centuries once momentum in the paradigm shift begins to move in that direction. You're right tho, in how deeply entrenched in our psyche it is. Here's hoping Larken Rose will live a long and fruitful life!

People went into the Wild West in search of freedom from authority.
The first thing they found they needed was a sheriff.

We will wind up needing a digital sheriff.

That's just evidence that at their core violence was still present. When we overcome our deep seated appeal to violence to solve problems the need for authority will dramatically be reduced. How will disagreements be settled? by 3rd party arbitration of course.

It is such a radically different context for life I don't think we can even truly grasp it now, as we're so deeply conditioned to think with the violence within us. As rational, peaceful parenting and respect for children increases, so will the violence in society. That's my opinion anyway.

I would like to point out that the "Wild West" was in large part an idea vehicled through movies and cartoons. Most of the real life account actually reflect a much more "peaceful" existence than their counterpart back east.

On that topic, I would suggest reading: "The Not So Wild West". https://mises.org/library/not-so-wild-wild-west

It's a good read and is showing some of the interesting voluntary solution people came up with to provide security.

Offline Thom

Also, we must also let go in the belief in authority...which may take a few centuries.

Until then...Vote with your feet!

Awesome!  +5%

Although I seriously doubt ridding humanity of the belief in authority will happen in my lifetime, I think it could happen faster than a few centuries once momentum in the paradigm shift begins to move in that direction. You're right tho, in how deeply entrenched in our psyche it is. Here's hoping Larken Rose will live a long and fruitful life!

People went into the Wild West in search of freedom from authority.
The first thing they found they needed was a sheriff.

We will wind up needing a digital sheriff.

That's just evidence that at their core violence was still present. When we overcome our deep seated appeal to violence to solve problems the need for authority will dramatically be reduced. How will disagreements be settled? by 3rd party arbitration of course.

It is such a radically different context for life I don't think we can even truly grasp it now, as we're so deeply conditioned to think with the violence within us. As rational, peaceful parenting and respect for children increases, so will the violence in society. That's my opinion anyway.
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere - MLK |  Verbaltech2 Witness Reports: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,23902.0.html