Author Topic: 1000 PTS - Write Social Consensus Software License (SCSL) [CLOSED]  (Read 44483 times)

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Offline barwizi

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Will the consensus be amended or will it maintain the difference between AGS funded DAC vs 3rd party DAC?

There is no difference, all DACs that use the code are AGS funded.

Which makes it applicable to DACs that use the code only. You need to re-think this to include those that will use their own.

What legal tool is there to enforce social consensus on someone that doesn't use your code?

In another, buried post, bytemaster and stan described all the benefits one gets for following social contract (free consulting, advertising, sponsorship to conferences). I think that's a good model:
"if you use our code you must follow social contract. If you follow the social contract (whether or not you use our code), you get all this free stuff."

That is what think about it means, if i had an idea, i would have simply posted it.
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Offline maqifrnswa

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Will the consensus be amended or will it maintain the difference between AGS funded DAC vs 3rd party DAC?

There is no difference, all DACs that use the code are AGS funded.

Which makes it applicable to DACs that use the code only. You need to re-think this to include those that will use their own.

What legal tool is there to enforce social consensus on someone that doesn't use your code?

In another, buried post, bytemaster and stan described all the benefits one gets for following social contract (free consulting, advertising, sponsorship to conferences). I think that's a good model:
"if you use our code you must follow social contract. If you follow the social contract (whether or not you use our code), you get all this free stuff."
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Offline barwizi

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Will the consensus be amended or will it maintain the difference between AGS funded DAC vs 3rd party DAC?

There is no difference, all DACs that use the code are AGS funded.

Which makes it applicable to DACs that use the code only. You need to re-think this to include those that will use their own.
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Offline bytemaster

Will the consensus be amended or will it maintain the difference between AGS funded DAC vs 3rd party DAC?

There is no difference, all DACs that use the code are AGS funded.
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Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline barwizi

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Will the consensus be amended or will it maintain the difference between AGS funded DAC vs 3rd party DAC?
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The magical land of crypto, no freebies people.

Offline barwizi

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Is that the final version all round or just for Bitshares?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 02:19:39 pm by barwizi »
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Offline maqifrnswa

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I like:
https://github.com/InvictusInnovations/BitShares/blob/master/LICENSE.md

But could there be one tweak in (4)?
"At no point will there be less than 10% of the total shares allocated by the blockchain to the holders of BitShares PTS, distributed proportionally to the percentage of total BitShares PTS held at genesis block initialization. Additionally, at no point will there be less than 10% of the total shares allocated by the blockchain to the holders of BitShares AGS, distributed proportionally to the total BitShares AGS held at genesis block initialization."

This covers genesis and prevents dilution.


EDIT: Actually, the current language is pretty good and covers my concerns. The above change would only allow inflationary coins, which the currently language doesn't allow - but I don't really mind either way.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 02:50:06 pm by maqifrnswa »
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Offline barwizi

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Your small DAC at the beginning allocates 10% of it's equity to PTS,  the effect is right at the beginning, you already have thousands of possible customers willing to purchase your services. It is also meant as a mechanism that with good management and application can secure a "stable" base price for equity units. The relationship goes both ways, by raising good value on your equity, it will help PTS rise, but also, when PTS rises so does your equity value.

III software is anything developed by them, bounties or otherwise paid for by them. Use of the software includes but is not limited to running it as it is, making modifications and forking.

Great answer - thanks a lot :)

When you think of PTS / DACs in a "total economy" sense - "user" has many different meanings. I think you wiggled around the one member class I was looking for...which I think is good.

3rd party (non-I3) software which uses/interfaces with I3 software without modification to I3 code, seem...exempt?  (Did I just describe a DAC in legal-ese?)

They could probly go around PTS / use another currency /etc. But wouldn't want to depending on stability / timeframe / etc like you said - and access to network of PTS individuals / reputation / etc.

Quote
3rd party (non-I3) software which uses/interfaces with I3 software without modification to I3 code, seem...exempt?  (Did I just describe a DAC in legal-ese?)

that is correct, since they are not modifying the actual code.

Quote
They could probly go around PTS / use another currency /etc. But wouldn't want to depending on stability / timeframe / etc like you said - and access to network of PTS individuals / reputation / etc.

yes you can create A DAC  with other code, but you would be hard pressed on the dev side since that means you have to do everything  yourself, none of the improvements offered here will apply to you.
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Offline MaxPWR

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Your small DAC at the beginning allocates 10% of it's equity to PTS,  the effect is right at the beginning, you already have thousands of possible customers willing to purchase your services. It is also meant as a mechanism that with good management and application can secure a "stable" base price for equity units. The relationship goes both ways, by raising good value on your equity, it will help PTS rise, but also, when PTS rises so does your equity value.

III software is anything developed by them, bounties or otherwise paid for by them. Use of the software includes but is not limited to running it as it is, making modifications and forking.

Great answer - thanks a lot :)

When you think of PTS / DACs in a "total economy" sense - "user" has many different meanings. I think you wiggled around the one member class I was looking for...which I think is good.

3rd party (non-I3) software which uses/interfaces with I3 software without modification to I3 code, seem...exempt?  (Did I just describe a DAC in legal-ese?)

They could probly go around PTS / use another currency /etc. But wouldn't want to depending on stability / timeframe / etc like you said - and access to network of PTS individuals / reputation / etc.
You can't stop the signal, Mal. Everything goes somewhere, and I go everywhere.

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Offline barwizi

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Maybe instead of "buy PTS", I should have said "invest" or "want to buy services or goods" with it...a combination of savings power and purchasing power...fundamental value.

Can you explain the financial relationships / effects of the license to "small DACs" or start-up web services...maybe like an ebay start-up seller or micro-blogger site?

E.g., what do you mean by "I3 software" and "use the software"?  Do you mean "developed by I3 in the future" / "fork the code"?

either way, if all you do is use the units without the code then you need not worry about the license. those that make direct use of the software and/or want to fork/modify however have to worry about their position.

I think what you want to know is if holding PTS gives you legal standing, III intends to give such legal standing. I am working on how to put that in legalese so expect the update in a few hours.

Your small DAC at the beginning allocates 10% of it's equity to PTS,  the effect is right at the beginning, you already have thousands of possible customers willing to purchase your services. It is also meant as a mechanism that with good management and application can secure a "stable" base price for equity units. The relationship goes both ways, by raising good value on your equity, it will help PTS rise, but also, when PTS rises so does your equity value.

III software is anything developed by them, bounties or otherwise paid for by them. Use of the software includes but is not limited to running it as it is, making modifications and forking.
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Offline MaxPWR

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Maybe instead of "buy PTS", I should have said "invest" or "want to buy services or goods" with it...a combination of savings power and purchasing power...fundamental value.

Can you explain the financial relationships / effects of the license to "small DACs" or start-up web services...maybe like an ebay start-up seller or micro-blogger site?

E.g., what do you mean by "I3 software" and "use the software"?  Do you mean "developed by I3 in the future" / "fork the code"?
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Offline maqifrnswa

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I get that.

But...let's say I'm a new guy - short answer / link to other forum post for the following:

"So...I buy PTS, and then I have a license?"

I don't think you need a license to own PTS, the same way you don't need a license to own BTS. It's just if you use the software you need a license for the software, the same way it works with BTS.

If you use a web wallet, you don't need a license. But the people that run the web wallet would need a license if they are running I3 software. If they coded their own pts/DAC software that interfaces to the bitshare/DAC network, they don't need any license at all.
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Offline MaxPWR

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I get that.

But...let's say I'm a new guy - short answer / link to other forum post for the following:

"So...I buy PTS, and then I have a license?"

You can't stop the signal, Mal. Everything goes somewhere, and I go everywhere.

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Offline luckybit

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Are there any parts that would become easier with a voting option to allow for future shareholder votes, etc? 

That's probably outside the scope of the document, but I mean, would it influence any parts of the license?

I'm thinking of a similar issue at memorycoin, as maybe a "pick your own license" application.  A user (i.e., business) could vote for a license ID to say they're adopting it, the holder of the license ID (e.g., individual, other blockchain, etc) could vote back to "approve / brand" the first address as an official licensee.

Unenforceable in virtual currency, except by impact on reputation, but could be used as a legal / contract basis.  And allows a market for a "pick your license" through community approval.  Almost license document version control. 

You could have multiple "approved" versions of the SCSL - 5%, 10%, 25%, and maybe it shows up through differences in support for various DACs during development / etc?

I asked Dan and Stan about voting and it seems they aren't into the idea of voting. This only leaves the process we have here which is discussion, gentleman's consensus, and tacit cooperation in enforcing it whether or not there is a legal document.

There should be a legal document because it gives the community legal enforcement capabilities rather than just social. So anyone who respects the law and legal system will be expected to follow the rules laid out in the license as to what is allowed.

I don't think there is any way around having a license. The license isn't to protect the community from the community but to protect it from big businesses with connections to banks and government among others.
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Offline MaxPWR

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Are there any parts that would become easier with a voting option to allow for future shareholder votes, etc? 

That's probably outside the scope of the document, but I mean, would it influence any parts of the license?

I'm thinking of a similar issue at memorycoin, as maybe a "pick your own license" application.  A user (i.e., business) could vote for a license ID to say they're adopting it, the holder of the license ID (e.g., individual, other blockchain, etc) could vote back to "approve / brand" the first address as an official licensee.

Unenforceable in virtual currency, except by impact on reputation, but could be used as a legal / contract basis.  And allows a market for a "pick your license" through community approval.  Almost license document version control. 

You could have multiple "approved" versions of the SCSL - 5%, 10%, 25%, and maybe it shows up through differences in support for various DACs during development / etc?
You can't stop the signal, Mal. Everything goes somewhere, and I go everywhere.

PWR UP: MAXVTEoYhDfWJjvkNm2ZmUhHpYbsPYuybg