Author Topic: Questions about Notes  (Read 5951 times)

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Offline sudo

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use bitshares's gateway?

Offline Ander

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So notes will have to be traded on different exchanges in order to determine a value that can be used as feed to short muse_usd with?

At least 1 exchange.
Or on the Bitshares exchange network maybe?
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Offline Pheonike


So notes will have to be traded on different exchanges in order to determine a value that can be used as feed to short muse_usd with?

Offline Ander

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MUSE will have smartcoins since we need a volatility free and counter party risk free form of payment. Meaning there will be a muse_USD which can be collateralized by Notes or any other asset.
This means that technically, artist's UIA can be shorted.
Although that's a blockchain, trader thing. PeerTracks itself is focused on user friendly UI that allows non-tech-savy users to simply buy UIA of artists they love (or think have potential)
Awesome news ... but will there also be "real UIA" .. such that an artist can sell his tokens (ie, for crowdfunding)? or will there only be Market Pegged Assets .. or more precisely Artist Pegged Assets?

I would expect that artists would sell their artist coins for muse_usd.  They get a fixed amount of $ for their coins.  Then afterwards, the artistcoins would trade freely at whatever price people wanted to pay for them.
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Offline xeroc

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MUSE will have smartcoins since we need a volatility free and counter party risk free form of payment. Meaning there will be a muse_USD which can be collateralized by Notes or any other asset.
This means that technically, artist's UIA can be shorted.
Although that's a blockchain, trader thing. PeerTracks itself is focused on user friendly UI that allows non-tech-savy users to simply buy UIA of artists they love (or think have potential)
Awesome news ... but will there also be "real UIA" .. such that an artist can sell his tokens (ie, for crowdfunding)? or will there only be Market Pegged Assets .. or more precisely Artist Pegged Assets?

Offline Ander

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And you prefer to use a market pegged asset (muse_usd) instead of a user issued asset where someone (peertracks for example) would guarentee to exchange this UIA for one dollar at any time?

Someone guaranteeing to exchange a user asset for $1 would require us to trust that centralized third party.  Then there wouldnt be any difference between peertracks and some centralized entity like itunes. 

Thats why we need smartcoins backed by NOTEs, the store of value token on the MSUE blockchain.

Just like in BTS.  No one would want bitUSD if it was just Cryptonomex promising to give you $1 for it. :P
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Offline santaclause102

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MUSE will have smartcoins since we need a volatility free and counter party risk free form of payment. Meaning there will be a muse_USD which can be collateralized by Notes or any other asset.
This means that technically, artist's UIA can be shorted.
Although that's a blockchain, trader thing. PeerTracks itself is focused on user friendly UI that allows non-tech-savy users to simply buy UIA of artists they love (or think have potential)
And you prefer to use a market pegged asset (muse_usd) instead of a user issued asset where someone (peertracks for example) would guarentee to exchange this UIA for one dollar at any time?
I am asking because at some point I read somewhere (peertracks or the whatarenotes website or somewhere else) that UIA would be used to create a non volatile token.

When trying to determine the value of Notes or BTS it shouldn't make a difference whether BTS / Notes are the only token allowed to serve as collateral or whether any token can be used. First UIA as collateral doesn't make much sense because there is counterparty risk involved and one could use a UIA directly. If other market pegged assets are used: Let's say Muse_USD is used as collateral for Muse_CNY then that drives the demand for MUSE_USD which are backed by Notes which drives the demand for Notes. In that loop (of bitassets backing bitassets) there has to be somewhere a bitasset that is backed by Notes/BTS and the demand for the bitassets "above" this bitasset translates 1:1 into demand for BTS/notes. So in the end it shouldnt matter whether Notes are the only collateral or not. Anybody following me? Anyone disagreeing?

EDIT: Actually using other bitassets as collateral should multiply the demand for the native token (notes or bts) by the percentage necessary to create a bitasset. For example (assuming 1 note token is valued at 1 usd and 1 usd = 1 cny which is wrong of course but doesn't matter for the example): Creating 1 muse_usd requires ~ 3 notes. Creating 1 muse_cny (when backed by muse_usd) requires 9 notes because it requires 3 muse_usd which each require 3 notes.

EDIT EDIT: Hmm Requiring 3 muse_usd to create 1 muse_cny is probably overkill. 1.5 would probably be far enough to dampen the exchange volatility of usd:cny. So who determines that if it is not a private bitassets?

I will make a separate threat out of it. Is a little bit of topic...
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 06:13:09 pm by delulo »

Offline Ander

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MUSE will have smartcoins since we need a volatility free and counter party risk free form of payment. Meaning there will be a muse_USD which can be collateralized by Notes or any other asset.

Been waiting for that info, thanks!  So this makes Notes valuable as collateral.
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Offline cob

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MUSE will have smartcoins since we need a volatility free and counter party risk free form of payment. Meaning there will be a muse_USD which can be collateralized by Notes or any other asset.
This means that technically, artist's UIA can be shorted.
Although that's a blockchain, trader thing. PeerTracks itself is focused on user friendly UI that allows non-tech-savy users to simply buy UIA of artists they love (or think have potential)
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline xeroc

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MUSE is to be a member organization owned mostly by members of the music world.

Notes = Votes in the direction the blockchain takes.
With Graphene you can delegate your voting power to someone else that might be an expert in how the music world operates.

This means MUSE (just like BitShares 2.0) will have a "board of directors" voted in by Note holders.

All the benefits of being distributed with all the benefits that come with an expert board of directors capable of understanding the weird world that is the music industry.

MUSE will be it's own chain.
How will the MUSE chain use NOTES?  Will there be transaction fees?
So the blockchain itself will not be profitable inherently?

It seems NOTE holders will have voting power for hard forks that enable protocol updates.
You also mentioned somewhere that the MUSE blockchain will not have bit/smart assets, so NOTEs will not be usable as a "collateral" ..
It does make sense .. somehow .. it also means that any company such as Peertracks (which is a for-profit organization) may need to buy up NOTEs to implement THEIR features on the chain.

Why would anyone want to be a member of the MUSE organization?

Offline Ander

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How will the MUSE chain use NOTES?  Will there be transaction fees?
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Offline cob

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MUSE is to be a member organization owned mostly by members of the music world.

Notes = Votes in the direction the blockchain takes.
With Graphene you can delegate your voting power to someone else that might be an expert in how the music world operates.

This means MUSE (just like BitShares 2.0) will have a "board of directors" voted in by Note holders.

All the benefits of being distributed with all the benefits that come with an expert board of directors capable of understanding the weird world that is the music industry.

MUSE will be it's own chain.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline pendragon3

Any suggestions from this incredibly smart community is welcome of course.
Actually I'm not from the smarter part of this community but if you would ask me...
I'd like to see MUSE launched as a separate Wallet/Website on the Graphene based BitShares Blockchain.
"Combine the extremes, and you will have the true center."

That's a fair suggestion.

I mean why wouldn't PeerTracks want to leverage the industrial grade graphene blockchain without having to pay for it? From what I understand, MUSE blockchain will be licensed by CNX for a price if it has its independant blockchain, and free to use if it integrates directly on the Bitshares blockchain.

You create your own wallet/trading interface for whatever artist coin that will be created and use the Bitshares blockchain as the backend and voilĂ ! PeerTracks won't even have to maintain a blockchain, and nobody will have to short bitUSD on another blockchain. That kinds of frightens me to know that there will be two types of bitUSD backed by different assets on different blockchains. Why not have it all on a single blockchain, increasing liquidity and utility? Notes would be an asset on Bitshares (as it currently already is) and have the artist tokens as UIA.

Am I missing something, cause from my perspective it doesn't make much sense with BTS2.0 to have an independant blockchain for MUSE.


I see at least two big problems with having music as a UIA on the main Bitshares blockchain.

1. Greater risk. Putting everything on a single chain would unnecessarily concentrate risk. If (heaven forbid) something disastrous happens to BTS like being crippled by onerous regulations, malicious actors, bad publicity, security breaches, etc., that could jeopardize the music chain as well. By having a separate chain, this type of risk is spread out to some extent.

2. Loss of control. Ultimately, a UIA on the Bitshares blockchain is subject to the control of BTS holders because they control/vote over the parent chain. What if a major disagreement arises in the future between bts and note about who gets BitUSD transaction fees? Also, what if, in the future, the music chain needs to be modified at a fundamental level to adapt it to changes in consumer tastes, technology, or regulation?  It's hard to predict where the music entertainment industry might be going in the future and what changes in muse might need to occur. Note holders are better off having control of their own independent chain so that the system is flexible enough to respond to future (unforeseen) contingencies. UIAs may be good for relatively simple tokens, but something as important, complex, and multi-functional like MUSE would be best as its own independent chain.

Offline Chuckone

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Any suggestions from this incredibly smart community is welcome of course.
Actually I'm not from the smarter part of this community but if you would ask me...
I'd like to see MUSE launched as a separate Wallet/Website on the Graphene based BitShares Blockchain.
"Combine the extremes, and you will have the true center."

That's a fair suggestion.

I mean why wouldn't PeerTracks want to leverage the industrial grade graphene blockchain without having to pay for it? From what I understand, MUSE blockchain will be licensed by CNX for a price if it has its independant blockchain, and free to use if it integrates directly on the Bitshares blockchain.

You create your own wallet/trading interface for whatever artist coin that will be created and use the Bitshares blockchain as the backend and voilĂ ! PeerTracks won't even have to maintain a blockchain, and nobody will have to short bitUSD on another blockchain. That kinds of frightens me to know that there will be two types of bitUSD backed by different assets on different blockchains. Why not have it all on a single blockchain, increasing liquidity and utility? Notes would be an asset on Bitshares (as it currently already is) and have the artist tokens as UIA.

Am I missing something, cause from my perspective it doesn't make much sense with BTS2.0 to have an independant blockchain for MUSE.

Offline btswolf

Any suggestions from this incredibly smart community is welcome of course.
Actually I'm not from the smarter part of this community but if you would ask me...
I'd like to see MUSE launched as a separate Wallet/Website on the Graphene based BitShares Blockchain.
"Combine the extremes, and you will have the true center."