Author Topic: Truthcoin Hangout  (Read 3740 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fuzzy

That guy also has an opinion about bitUSD btw .. check it out

I know about that, but a disagreement regarding something doesn't mean we should cut connections with people right? With that set of mind we wouldn't interact with Bitcoiners, Nubits community or Ethereum right? If you prefer let's call it a "Predictions Market Hangout" and have him as a guest since he seems to be a person with vast knowledge on that area.

At some point in the future I want to have devs form together as panels with respect to hangouts for certain topics.  Personally have no problems bringing him on for that, but we are not quite there yet imho.
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
I also have not made a decision for my self as to which of those deserve support (if not both) .. there are good arguments and reasoning behind both projects ..

Offline cass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4311
  • /(┬.┬)\
    • View Profile
akado .. i don't want to judge about anything .. as i said .. it would be nice to see Paul attending to beyond bitcoin meeting .. i'm just want to state my duobt he will ... that's all …out ;)
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline Akado

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2752
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: akado
I understand your point cass but this is not about BitShares being the right model or not. This is not about if someone is right or wrong. It would be about Prediction Markets, which is an important feature in the future of BitShares.

I'm just suggesting this of course. I just don't see those points as justifiable enough to not get him on a mumble. More important, we as a community need to learn how to come out on top and not just make a fuss everytime someone doesn't approve BitShares.

Fuzzy?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 09:46:14 pm by Akado »
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline cass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4311
  • /(┬.┬)\
    • View Profile
but sure .. if he would be interested .. go for it ..  +5%
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline cass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4311
  • /(┬.┬)\
    • View Profile
and paul'S last comment here if somebody is interested ... ;)


https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,14989.msg193868.html#msg193868
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline Akado

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2752
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: akado
Quote
Augur
tl;dr Augur was one of many teams attempting to build Truthcoin. I stopped advising them due to their technical incompetence, and their outrageously false claims (about their exclusivity, advisors, ‘contribution’ to the protocol design, etc). Today, I would best describe what remains as “a way to scam money from gullible Ethereum users”.

I know that claim doesn't look good. But the point here would just to stir up some discussion regarding Prediction Markets with someone who's knowledge on that area is far better than most. I only see us gaining from that, we're just learning from others. It could just spark an idea on someone's mind and that idea could end up helping BitShares.

I'm not defending him or the Augur team, to be honest I don't care about it. What I'm suggesting is an interesting talk about Prediction Markets and having people ask questions to someone who understands them, spark some ideas, make someone come up with something new, learn something, I think it would be interesting, don't you? That seems like a media approach, focusing on stupid skirmishes. What matters here is Prediction Markets, period.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 09:40:39 pm by Akado »
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline cass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4311
  • /(┬.┬)\
    • View Profile
Quote
Augur
tl;dr Augur was one of many teams attempting to build Truthcoin. I stopped advising them due to their technical incompetence, and their outrageously false claims (about their exclusivity, advisors, ‘contribution’ to the protocol design, etc). Today, I would best describe what remains as “a way to scam money from gullible Ethereum users”.
█║▌║║█  - - -  The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear  - - -  █║▌║║█

Offline Akado

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2752
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: akado
That guy also has an opinion about bitUSD btw .. check it out

I know about that, but a disagreement regarding something doesn't mean we should cut connections with people right? With that set of mind we wouldn't interact with Bitcoiners, Nubits community or Ethereum right? If you prefer let's call it a "Predictions Market Hangout" and have him as a guest since he seems to be a person with vast knowledge on that area.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
That guy also has an opinion about bitUSD btw .. check it out

Offline Akado

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2752
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: akado
Imho we should approach augur instead ..

Augur is already with Ethereum + http://www.truthcoin.info/faq/ (See augur section, the whole section preferably to get a better understanding)

Winter 2014-2015 – Augur

Meanwhile, the advising for Pythia, recently renamed “Augur”, was not going very well. I would spend days (weekends, luckily the winter was dark and cold, and hence no great loss) on pieces of writing, and this work would be ignored. My scarce (free) time would be consumed belaboring points that I had made many times before. Once, someone said “[This document is very long]…you should put a list of changes at the end, in between versions.” The very document he was talking about had a list of changes, at the end of the document.

On occasion I would be asked questions, to which I felt the answer was, with a little work, knowable. So, instead of answering immediately, I would wait to see if they would get the answer for themselves. I did this three times, and in each of the three times Augur failed to ever produce any answer at all. By this I mean that they have been thinking and wondering about answers to important questions for months. One of these questions is literally a matter of life and death!

People would say cringeworthy things like “I know what that means, but can you explain how you are using it in this situation.” Someone there, believed that use of a specific type of mathematical formula could “produce a profit” for users. When I explained that this was impossible, and that it would be highly embarrassing (for me, as an associated adviser) for anyone at Augur to suggest that it were possible in public, they told me to “F*ck off” and stop hanging around in their Slack chat (from which I was recently banned).
Spring 2015 – Derailment

Without me around to constantly put them back on course, the new leader Jack went on a months-long tangent, plagiarized at best, culminating in ideas that cause Truthcoin to break. Ultimately Augur admitted what I had always suspected: that they lacked the technical skill required to implement my design off of Bitcoin Core. Instead, to save work and make use of their existing team’s (non-C++) skills, they decided to outsource the consensus work the newly created Ethereum, and write brand new Truthcoin in the new pseudo-Python language “Serpent”. I found these changes, most of all, to be unfathomably reckless and entirely unacceptable (see below).

Fortunately, one of the investors who had previously met and rejected the Augur team brought the Truthcoin idea to Roger Ver. To my immense relief and excitement, Roger contacted me to inquire about his ability to assist, which, as a non-US citizen or resident, was very great. I put him in touch with one of the most promising programmers, who had been working on Truthcoin in the past, and after getting an email from Roger he jumped right back to work.

The three of us wanted to keep the work as private as possible, so that the programmer and I could not only [1] avoid any unwanted attention, but also [2] iron out the details of the work (in an effort to avoid struggles like the current blocksize debate).

Unfortunately, Augur was planning a crowdsale and many of my supporters convinced me that I had a duty to come forward and at least inform potential Augur investors that my faith in their version was low, so low that I was actively working on a competing version. Neither Roger, nor I, nor the programmer were happy about this, but we eventually did it anyway.

In general I don’t feel very happy about the journey. I would even say that I feel that deliberate and honest people “don’t belong” in the tech sector. I’m sorry to say that I would advise someone in a similar situation to avoid interacting with Bitcoin as a producer (instead, remain a user, where you get all of the fun without any of the work).
But their website lists all of these amazing people as advisers and commentators…

I myself was listed as an adviser (until very recently), and Roger Ver was front-paged with pro-Prediction-Market quotations. This was despite our unambiguous disapproval of Augur.

I happen to know many of the “advisers” personally, some for many years. They are simply nice guys (like me), who were asked “Do you mind if we list you as an adviser?” and said “Yes” (as I did), to encourage Prediction Markets in general. The clever assembly of these (ultimately hollow) pieces is, so I now understand, part of the Silicon Valley “marketing” machine (what we in quaint New Haven would call “a scam”).



But the point isn't to try and convince Truthcoin to join with us, but to share some knowledge and create some discussion. I think that would be good.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 09:28:46 pm by Akado »
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline xeroc

  • Board Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12922
  • ChainSquad GmbH
    • View Profile
    • ChainSquad GmbH
  • BitShares: xeroc
  • GitHub: xeroc
Imho we should approach augur instead ..

Offline Akado

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2752
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: akado
I found this thread from 1 year ago https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,7393.msg98368.html#msg98368 could we have one again? Since we're into Prediction Markets. Could be an awesome hangout for some discussion regarding that
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads