What happened to the 30 million BTS

[donkeypong]

It's been a long time since I rock and rolled,
It's been a long time since I did the Stroll.
Ooh, let me get it back, let me get it back,
Let me get it back, baby, where I come from.
It's been a long time, been a long time,
Been a long lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely time. Yes it has.

-- Led Zeppelin, Rock and Roll

Thank you. I'm getting a little sick of all the David Bowie stuff today. True innovator, RIP, but I'll take Zeppelin.

[Stan]

And, as I've stated a couple of times, they didn't do development in the first half of the year because all developers were working to crank out BitShares 2.0. 

So it seems a Long Time Coming, but in actual developer time, it's been about six months.

It's been a long time since I rock and rolled,
It's been a long time since I did the Stroll.
Ooh, let me get it back, let me get it back,
Let me get it back, baby, where I come from.
It's been a long time, been a long time,
Been a long lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely, lonely time. Yes it has.

-- Led Zeppelin, Rock and Roll

[bytemaster]

Most of that year FMV held the coins and didn't spend them and of course, most of the coins are still vesting.   
They have released source code for stake-based voting and are still doing things for BTS.

I just talked with Nathan and Adam yesterday and they are still in the BTS camp working on things. 

[mint chocolate chip]

I just talked with the FMV team and they have plans to launch a service on the BTS chain this year.

The year has come and gone, FMV has yet to "launch a service on the BTS chain".  But they did just register Merit, sure hope it is something worthwhile.

Believe me, BTSX would not have wanted to face VOTE as a competitor!

Fmv is the cornerstone of my marketing strategy.

[liondani]

Why the cry?

I don't know either, I am just crying...

PS only for @tonyk to watch https://youtu.be/hSFWgKl-O-A

[38PTSWarrior]

Hey, I maybe will issue 30 million of my shares, then it's equilibrium again right? :-)

[tonyk]

I just talked with the FMV team and they have plans to launch a service on the BTS chain this year.

@tonyk  :'(   :P

Why the cry? - I have a service that I plan to launch as well...just waiting for my 30 Mil BTS free donation. Very happy that everybody will be subsidized this way  :)

[liondani]

I just talked with the FMV team and they have plans to launch a service on the BTS chain this year.

@tonyk  :'(   :P

[speedy]

I just talked with the FMV team and they have plans to launch a service on the BTS chain this year.

That's it???? After all, that's it? This year?

You are talking many people let you down. Think about hundreds or thousands or tens of thousand investors YOU let down.

BM hasnt let anyone down, listen to the latest mumble and you get a sense for how hard hes working, and that no one in cyrpto has as the vision he has. The conversation on conflated roles in blockchains was awesome.

[rajarush]

I just talked with the FMV team and they have plans to launch a service on the BTS chain this year.

That's it???? After all, that's it? This year?

You are talking many people let you down. Think about hundreds or thousands or tens of thousand investors YOU let down.

[bytemaster]

I just talked with the FMV team and they have plans to launch a service on the BTS chain this year. 

[mint chocolate chip]

Some info that seems relevant to the discussion:

I do not think FMV ever gave that 1 million bts to anyone, the token percentage toast mentions that adam pledged to give to top community marketers.

The FMV team has stopped doing the bitshares social media, turning it over to Cryptonomex.

[speedy]

This guy has done jack squat for Bitshares. Maybe Bytemaster should demand a return of the BTS and or the privatekey related to the still vesting BTS?

+5% That would mean BM could bring some accountability to the project without changing the rules.

There have been many individuals whom have let me down since I started BitShares and these individuals have walked away with several hundred thousand dollars in total.

Dwelling on the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" does nothing but destroy our future potential.   

I understand you just want to move on from this, but 20M BTS being dumped over the next year (as you said) will be a huge cost to the DAC equivalent to all the money wasted by mining. If BitShares is not going to be profitable for another year then what is the point?

[NewMine]

I wasn't suggesting taking the 30 Million away. How about you hold people accountable:

Hey Guys,

Sorry that I haven't been active on the forums over the past few weeks.

My team and I have been heads down, aggressively preparing for our recent demo out in CA. We had an awesome week out in California, meeting with legislators regarding our BitShares based voting system and networking with voting registrars and officials alike. Our demo went extremely well. We met some serious resistance from established players in the industry, confirming that implementing our voting solution in legitimate elections is a long term play. The good news is that we definitely made a splash and are continuing to attract all sorts of attention.

Now that crunch time is over, we are really excited to shift our focus to helping BitShares improve all aspects of our marketing, particularly with respect to our online presence and user acquisition methods. I'm an experienced internet marketer with Will as my padawan in training (don't worry, he actually has a degree in marketing). We'd like nothing more than to work with the community to establish short term priorities and coordinate to avoid duplication of our efforts.

I'll be actively watching this thread for your feedback and hope to get caught up to speed quickly.

linkedin.com/in/adamkalebernest/

This guy has done jack squat for Bitshares. Maybe Bytemaster should demand a return of the BTS and or the privatekey related to the still vesting BTS?

[NewMine]

Follow my vote is actively developing a voting platform that will use bitshares network as the back end. 

Which will do more damage, arbitrarily changing the rules to take funds from Adam *OR* having Adam dump 20M BTS over the next year?

I am so glad Bitshares has never arbitrarily changed the rules before. /s

This is the funniest thing I have ever read by you Bytemaster.

[puppies]

I for one am still pretty excited about what FMV is working on.  The sooner we have good tools for objective analysis of shareholder opinion the better.  We need to get away from the vocal mob approach.

As a member of the mob I fully agree. 

Taking anyone's funds from the new genesis block would be a huge mistake.  Making mistakes is part of life.  Too often people will point out those mistakes in an attempt to get you to continue making mistakes.  Props to bm for leaving the mistakes in the past where they belong.

[Tuck Fheman]

There have been many individuals whom have let me down since I started BitShares and these individuals have walked away with several hundred thousand dollars in total.    Some downright stole it, others failed to deliver as promised, etc.   Every company I have ever worked with has had individuals that were a net loss.    We try to avoid mistakes, but they will happen and for our own sanity it is best to let them go, learn from them, and do better next time.

Dwelling on the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" does nothing but destroy our future potential.

btdt

+5% +5% +5% +5%

[inarizushi]

FMV is an exciting project, and if it works it WILL bring huge value to BitShares. If it doesn't, that's too bad, but it won't kill BitShares.
Giving 30 millions shares to Adam without asking guarantee in return was a mistake, but it was done during the merger and BitShares already paid the price for that. It's stupid and hurtful to bring that again, there is nothing to be done about it.

[BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode]

Adam gave up his own blockchain to join BitShares.    Adam plans to sign up users for his voting platform and that would bring users to BitShares. 

If Adam builds a voting service around a set of user accounts other than BitShares accounts then he will have violated his end of the merger plan.

Changing the rules to steal someones stake will haunt our reputation for ever,  we learned from the merger how much damage that can do and do not wish to establish a precedent of doing it again.   

If the elected witnesses decide to block transfers from that balance then that is on them and the stakeholders that vote for them.   But I personally would rather accept responsibility for a past mistake than make a new mistake in the present.   

There have been many individuals whom have let me down since I started BitShares and these individuals have walked away with several hundred thousand dollars in total.    Some downright stole it, others failed to deliver as promised, etc.   Every company I have ever worked with has had individuals that were a net loss.    We try to avoid mistakes, but they will happen and for our own sanity it is best to let them go, learn from them, and do better next time.

Dwelling on the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" does nothing but destroy our future potential.

The best failure is failing forward.

Keep up the great work +5%

[Shentist]

stupid thread!

the shares were giving for the merger. So far not much back into the BTS community. The only point for the merger is and was bytemasters expectations.

So we have to wait if it was worth anything. It is one more approach to get more users into the BTS Community so it will be good to see if this will work.

Adam can do what he wants to do with his shares.

[testz]

/........./
But I personally would rather accept responsibility for a past mistake than make a new mistake in the present.   

There have been many individuals whom have let me down since I started BitShares and these individuals have walked away with several hundred thousand dollars in total.    Some downright stole it, others failed to deliver as promised, etc.   Every company I have ever worked with has had individuals that were a net loss.    We try to avoid mistakes, but they will happen and for our own sanity it is best to let them go, learn from them, and do better next time.

Dwelling on the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" does nothing but destroy our future potential.

Regarding my own life experience, this seems to be the right attitude  +5%

+5%
From my personal experience sometimes old "mistakes" brings huge advantages in the future.

[CalabiYau]

/........./
But I personally would rather accept responsibility for a past mistake than make a new mistake in the present.   

There have been many individuals whom have let me down since I started BitShares and these individuals have walked away with several hundred thousand dollars in total.    Some downright stole it, others failed to deliver as promised, etc.   Every company I have ever worked with has had individuals that were a net loss.    We try to avoid mistakes, but they will happen and for our own sanity it is best to let them go, learn from them, and do better next time.

Dwelling on the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" does nothing but destroy our future potential.

Regarding my own life experience, this seems to be the right attitude  +5%

[bytemaster]

Adam gave up his own blockchain to join BitShares.    Adam plans to sign up users for his voting platform and that would bring users to BitShares. 

If Adam builds a voting service around a set of user accounts other than BitShares accounts then he will have violated his end of the merger plan.

Changing the rules to steal someones stake will haunt our reputation for ever,  we learned from the merger how much damage that can do and do not wish to establish a precedent of doing it again.   

If the elected witnesses decide to block transfers from that balance then that is on them and the stakeholders that vote for them.   But I personally would rather accept responsibility for a past mistake than make a new mistake in the present.   

There have been many individuals whom have let me down since I started BitShares and these individuals have walked away with several hundred thousand dollars in total.    Some downright stole it, others failed to deliver as promised, etc.   Every company I have ever worked with has had individuals that were a net loss.    We try to avoid mistakes, but they will happen and for our own sanity it is best to let them go, learn from them, and do better next time.

Dwelling on the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" does nothing but destroy our future potential.   

[speedy]

Follow my vote is actively developing a voting platform that will use bitshares network as the back end. 

Which will do more damage, arbitrarily changing the rules to take funds from Adam *OR* having Adam dump 20M BTS over the next year?

I believe that the dumping will do more damage, and you seem to be acknowledging thats what Adam is going to do - dump them.

No one here believes the voting platform is going to have any positive impact on BitShares. We just have your (valued) word for it as not even Adam is here explaining why its worthwhile. If Adam's voting platform is so good then why doesnt he have a delegate? But that would mean campaigning and actually communicating with the stakeholders which is not his style.

Its not an arbitrary change of rules - the community is finding concensus on a new genesis block and everyone is free to make their own if they think they can do a better job. Its an opportunity to fix past mistakes.

I remember adam being confused and offended when I asked how he planned to spend it on behalf of bitshares.

You asked Adam a legitimate question and he got offended? That says a lot.

[Ander]

It seems that BTS isnt falling towards the whales 1600 buy target fast enough, so newmine's whale masters have instructed him to reignite the fud attacks.

Seriously? He is right to bring this up.

Delete the still-to-be vested 30 million from the 2.0 genesis block, or this will haunt us for years.

No, delete a user's funds from the genesis block of 2.0 and completely kill the entire project.
This is the case regardless of whether you believe the 30M was a complete waste and will only be dumped, or whether you think FMV has value.

[Ander]

Changing the rules to steal the funds from a particular user would completely kill BTS as a project forever.  No one would ever trust it again.

Which is exactly what newmine wants it seems.

[Troglodactyl]

I for one am still pretty excited about what FMV is working on.  The sooner we have good tools for objective analysis of shareholder opinion the better.  We need to get away from the vocal mob approach.

[toast]

Follow my vote is actively developing a voting platform that will use bitshares network as the back end. 

Which will do more damage, arbitrarily changing the rules to take funds from Adam *OR* having Adam dump 20M BTS over the next year?

I think the point of this thread is to say that the dumping would do more damage. Not saying I agree, I'm just here to give info.

You didn't answer the question of whether adam still considers it his *personal* BTS. If he does I think he can make more money by voluntarily burning a large fraction of it because that information will help the market cap that much.

[bytemaster]

Follow my vote is actively developing a voting platform that will use bitshares network as the back end. 

Which will do more damage, arbitrarily changing the rules to take funds from Adam *OR* having Adam dump 20M BTS over the next year? 

[toast]

Also I remember it not being designated for marketing but rather being a trade for Adam's marketing team's involvement, ie the BTS is FMV's to do with as they please, and in exchange they work on BTS marketing. I remember adam being confused and offended when I asked how he planned to spend it on behalf of bitshares. Actually now I remember there was later a move to appease when he gave a token percentage to top community marketers.

Has this changed? What is the designated purpose of those BTS?

[toast]

The balances say they are partially claimed but `blockchain_list_address_transactions` for those addresses doesn't show anything. I think the latter is wrong though and the balance is correct, so about 11 million of those BTS have moved which is worth about $45k now. Did he have to sell at the bottom? Maybe someone can do the detective work if Adam doesn't respond.

Code Select Expand

default (unlocked) >>> blockchain_list_address_balances PqJyHZfb5THhEjQuDdQdBkAu9Pfx9peoFZ
[[
    "BTSKbY6PskiT9b1oGZVV6vPJQjB2Rkejtu6X",{
      "condition": {
        "asset_id": 0,
        "slate_id": 0,
        "type": "withdraw_vesting_type",
        "data": {
          "owner": "BTSHVsEyXjY9qR37QDv2dtmDuMj7PgnffzFD",
          "start_time": "2014-11-06T00:00:00",
          "duration": 63072000,
          "original_balance": 1500000000000
        }
      },
      "balance": 955753186835,
      "snapshot_info": {
        "original_address": "PqJyHZfb5THhEjQuDdQdBkAu9Pfx9peoFZ",
        "original_balance": 1500000000000
      },
      "deposit_date": "1970-01-01T00:00:00",
      "last_update": "2015-07-28T20:48:20",
      "meta_data": null
    }
  ]
]

default (unlocked) >>> blockchain_list_address_balances PhhGLBBoQkiCthPbhR961S1JSLwHHyetaC
[[
    "BTS6gY5sK9cVnqm4Bg9L3dW9XRn6iEBnRRyZ",{
      "condition": {
        "asset_id": 0,
        "slate_id": 0,
        "type": "withdraw_vesting_type",
        "data": {
          "owner": "BTSHnBguYS2XBD5dzXTmChXWth1ZnR4nvTw",
          "start_time": "2014-11-06T00:00:00",
          "duration": 63072000,
          "original_balance": 1500000000000
        }
      },
      "balance": 953752616058,
      "snapshot_info": {
        "original_address": "PhhGLBBoQkiCthPbhR961S1JSLwHHyetaC",
        "original_balance": 1500000000000
      },
      "deposit_date": "1970-01-01T00:00:00",
      "last_update": "2015-07-29T20:10:20",
      "meta_data": null
    }
  ]
]


[toast]

$300K given to FMV R&D
...
$200K  paid to marketing

Does that marketing figure include adam's team post brian page?

[Tuck Fheman]

It seems that BTS isnt falling towards the whales 1600 buy target fast enough, so newmine's whale masters have instructed him to reignite the fud attacks.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,17584.msg223892.html

[speedy]

It seems that BTS isnt falling towards the whales 1600 buy target fast enough, so newmine's whale masters have instructed him to reignite the fud attacks.

Seriously? He is right to bring this up.

Delete the still-to-be vested 30 million from the 2.0 genesis block, or this will haunt us for years.

[Ander]

It seems that BTS isnt falling towards the whales 1600 buy target fast enough, so newmine's whale masters have instructed him to reignite the fud attacks.

[speedy]

Thank you newmine for bringing this up.

We talk about how mining puts huge downward pressure on a blockchain, what about 30 million new BTS constantly vesting over 2 years? When new users ask about the distribution of BTS and they hear that we gave away 30 million BTS to 1 guy for his pipe dream voting pet project that has nothing to do with the core product, they will say why should I invest in this?

Lets assume that 2.0 is really popular and achieves a moderately successful market cap of $200 million in a couple of years. Then that 30 BTS will earn AE $2.4 million dollars for doing nothing.

We keep hearing about how Vote is the secret sauce but we never hear any updates on it. Adam is never posting on these forums on why he needs to be given that money or what he is doing with it. Im sure hes talented otherwise BM would not have done it.

We are creating a new genesis block for BTS 2.0, so how about fixing this elephant in the room by deleting that 30 million BTS vesting address from the genesis block. Or would Adam like to comment on this post on why that shouldnt happen? There is already precedent for this - the marketing guy's bonus was cancelled and the departure was still ammicable.

This needs to be fixed.

[NewMine]

What happened to the 30 million BTS from the merger that was designated for marketing under the direction of Adam K. Ernest?  Are we just writing this off? Or are we still waiting for some numbered release?