Author Topic: Am I the only one that thinks referral system is Bitshares largest mistake ever?  (Read 6824 times)

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Offline donkeypong

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I strongly believe that this referral system can incentivize people to help BitShares grow. It is also something that partners can plug into and fund the system's growth in ways that you and I cannot yet imagine. Once this technology is fully ready for prime time (getting much closer), then the referral system can power a ground-up marketing push. Time will tell, but I'm guessing it will be well worth the cost. 500 other coins, and eventually Bitcoin itself, may agree when we leave them in our dust.

Offline Riverhead

Our competition is not other crypto. It's legacy payment processors like PayPal and on-line usage of debit cards.

This. Exactly this.

Offline botfund

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I think the fee for placing/cancel of an order and transaction should be very cheap. But the fee for trade success should be more, such as 0.0005 of the    liquild.
People are willing to pay when trade success, because both seller and buyer feel earn something at the moment they trade.

I think that the current market fee should be split into maker fee and taker fee. So we have order placing fee, cancel fee, maker fee and taker fee where [maker fee percentage]+[taker fee percentage] >= 0. The order placing/cancel fee should be as low as possible just to avoid spamming. To improve the liquidity, we can set the maker fee to -0.2% and taker fee to 0.2%, or maybe -0.1% and 0.2% to get some profit from trades like normal exchanges.

Offline donkeypong

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Our competition is not other crypto. It's legacy payment processors like PayPal and on-line usage of debit cards.

This. Exactly this.

I fully agree. My post referenced other coins because the OP mentioned them, but we're aiming far beyond cryptos with this. Most Fortune 1000 companies use a referral system of some sort in the marketing. That's our turf now.

Offline topcandle

When does our referral system get launched?
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Offline fav

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Our competition is not other crypto. It's legacy payment processors like PayPal and on-line usage of debit cards.

This. Exactly this.

 +5% time to realize this for some of you.

Offline roadscape

Regarding tx costs... bitcoin costs nearly $1,000,000 per day to operate, and each tx costs $7 to its holders.. I think we're ok..

https://blockchain.info/charts/miners-revenue
https://blockchain.info/charts/cost-per-transaction
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Offline bytemaster

Look at it this way:

1.  User issued assets can set any core-exchange-rate they like and lower the fees for users of the UIA to close to 0
2.  UIAs can charge market fees similar to exchanges
3.  $0.10 for a normal user or $0.02 cents for a lifetime member are so close to $0 that few would even think about it for a transaction over $10
4.  BTS is not meant to be payment currency.  How many people buy less than $10 worth of stock in a company?  What is the transaction fee on that?

In other words, the ability of users to do "price discrimination" falls apart at values this low.   Unless you are executing 1000's of transactions there is almost no perceivable difference.  Most people won't even bend over to pick up a DIME on the ground.

In other words from a customer perspective  $0.01 and $0.10 are effectively the SAME in low volumes.   At high volumes the price approaches $0.02 for lifetime members which is cheaper than Bitcoin. 

While the difference in price is insignificant to individual users, it is HUGE for the network.   The network is a party to every transaction and thus sees a 5x increase in revenue while the user perceives almost no difference in cost.
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Offline Akado

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1.  User issued assets can set any core-exchange-rate they like and lower the fees for users of the UIA to close to 0
2.  UIAs can charge market fees similar to exchanges

This^ When people trade on exchanges, they trade IOUs, it's exactly the same, here they could trade a UIA issued by the exchange like bitstamp.btc or btce.btc with low fees. However at the user-level of interface they wouldn't see any of this happening.


I think it's too early to say it's a mistake. I mean, we have the chance to create a network effect and that's priceless.
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Offline pal

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1. Referral system is great, but fees should be lower.
2. 20 BTS is too scary number for people.
3. 10 cents now seem low, but with price increase it would be higher. In crypto 2x times price increase is nothing, we could jump 10x, but we won't, because nobody will use system when. Eventually we will be forced to lower it , why don't do this now?
4. By lowering the fees we could increase our marketcap, hence - more publicity.
5. By lowering the fees we could show everyone that our governance model superior than Bitcoin.
6. Maybe people in USA tolerate fees, other regions have different views. But they have difficulties articulate this.

We could debate for a long time or we can show the world our new feature: governance by voting.

My proposal:
Lets reduce all fees by the factor of 4. Our system very good, we should be able to grow by 4x in short time if there will be no such resistance as high fees for people to use Bitshares.
 
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Offline luckybit

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The referral pattern is actually one of the best ideas ever. Other crypto will certainly copy Bitshares as they have with sharedropping and many other similar ideas.

Innovation is the only edge the Bitshares community has, and the fact that the Bitshares community will try different ideas to win. If the goal is to take Bitshares viral and bootstrap an industry having the referral program is probably the best thing you can do to help seed the process.

My opinion is the referral program didn't go far enough. It should have been multi-level, but I understand for PR purposes perhaps it couldn't be? So instead someone can create a multi-level referral program on top of the current referral program if they decentralize the referrer into a cooperative.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 09:05:31 pm by luckybit »
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Offline luckybit

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1. Referral system is great, but fees should be lower.
2. 20 BTS is too scary number for people.
3. 10 cents now seem low, but with price increase it would be higher. In crypto 2x times price increase is nothing, we could jump 10x, but we won't, because nobody will use system when. Eventually we will be forced to lower it , why don't do this now?
4. By lowering the fees we could increase our marketcap, hence - more publicity.
5. By lowering the fees we could show everyone that our governance model superior than Bitcoin.
6. Maybe people in USA tolerate fees, other regions have different views. But they have difficulties articulate this.

We could debate for a long time or we can show the world our new feature: governance by voting.

My proposal:
Lets reduce all fees by the factor of 4. Our system very good, we should be able to grow by 4x in short time if there will be no such resistance as high fees for people to use Bitshares.


I think fees should remain high for now. The system is going to be used by people who need to use it because there is no alternative offering lower fees. Until a rival offers lower fees the fees should remain high or even be increased. You don't lower fees until competition forces you to.

And there is no competition right now. Would you rather take your chances with BitReserve aka Uphold?

If 20BTS is a scary number, hide the number so people don't see what the fee is without specifically looking. There is no reason to make the fee an obvious thing and perhaps for psychological reasons you have a point that people spend more when they don't see numbers but that doesn't mean the numbers should be based around their psychology when you can simply move the numbers to a part of the interface they wont see as much. It's a GUI/UX issue not a price issue.

I also think it's not time to add the percentages to the interface. People need to know what percentage of the Bitshares pie they hold. The fees spent could reflect by reducing their percentage of the pie, but they don't need to care how much they pay in fees as long as their percentage of the pie is increasing or staying the same.

The percentages are more accurate for what is really going on and is better for psychology. When your percentage of the pie gets too low you'll have to buy more to keep your percentage.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 09:08:32 pm by luckybit »
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Offline Ander

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I disagree with reducing fees for two main reasons:

1) It makes the referral program a lot less interesting if you dont expect the users you bring in to generate much of any fees.  So then it will fail.

2) A big reason why the BTS price has been trending down for a year is that the supply is increasing, that is, the blockchain is operating at a loss instead of being profitable.  As soon as we can demonstrate a blockchain making a profit over a reasonable period of time, even a small profit, it will attract a lot of attention.  Everyone is used to inflating blockchains that hemmorhage money (through PoW or whatever), but if you change that around and are actually making a profit, then a lot of investors will want to jump on board.  And helping the price break its downtrend is going to help adopting a LOT, because a major inhibitor to adoption right now is that everyone who buys in loses money and gets disillusioned.
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Tuck Fheman

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1.  User issued assets can set any core-exchange-rate they like and lower the fees for users of the UIA to close to 0
2.  UIAs can charge market fees similar to exchanges

Not currently, but in the future, correct? 

Or the commands are there to do it, but not documented?

I guess what I'm saying is, I can't do this currently that I'm aware of and previously you stated it was something that would be added in the future.

Offline luckybit

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Ander  +5% +5%

Did you see my point about how the interface should switch to percentage display? Bytemaster talked about it over a year ago but never implemented it. Now that he's writing the interface it's a perfect opportunity for him to implement it and I know it's not hard to implement it.

It would take one day of coding to implement it, probably not even a whole day for someone as skilled as him. And it will dramatically improve the psychology, because when people care about their percentages instead of meaningless numbers people will buy more to maintain their percentage of ownership. Because of the referral program and other expenses, the percentage of ownership may change slightly, but people need to know.


There needs to be an interface titled "expenses" or something similar. And an interface titled "profit" or something similar. Profit should be then organized by per hour, per day, per week, per year, or whatever the user wants to see. There also needs to be an interface titled "ownership" with percentages and graphs showing how much of each DAC they own.




« Last Edit: October 16, 2015, 09:12:47 pm by luckybit »
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