Author Topic: Worker Proposal Review  (Read 48151 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline BTSdac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1219
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: K1
any news about this .
github.com :pureland
BTS2.0 API :ws://139.196.37.179:8091
BTS2.0 API 数据源ws://139.196.37.179:8091

Tuck Fheman

  • Guest
Let's stay on topic.

Do you mean the topic of the Worker Proposal or the sub-topic you created within OP's thread?  :P


Offline yvv

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
    • View Profile

What do you mean? That's 10% spread. Are metaexchange's prices that off? And what do you mean good deal for metaexchange? Last time I knew it was coinbase who charged more each time you bought a btc, not metaexchange. You have other exchanges you can use to get into BTS.

If using coinbase because you're in NY is the problem, then that's the exact same thing if you want BTS or any other coin. You make it seem like it's BTS's problem

I mean a simple thing, efficiency. If you have a magic pipe which transfers a magic juice between people, you put a 50 gallons of juice into the pipe and get 45 gallons of juice out of it, your magic pipe is 80% efficient. On your way out you will lose another 20%. This is how bitshares works now.

Put down the pipe man, it only causes family problems. ;)

Sorry for your problems. Let's stay on topic.

Offline BTSdac

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1219
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: K1
how long the work fund lock?
github.com :pureland
BTS2.0 API :ws://139.196.37.179:8091
BTS2.0 API 数据源ws://139.196.37.179:8091


Offline jsidhu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1335
    • View Profile

What do you mean? That's 10% spread. Are metaexchange's prices that off? And what do you mean good deal for metaexchange? Last time I knew it was coinbase who charged more each time you bought a btc, not metaexchange. You have other exchanges you can use to get into BTS.

If using coinbase because you're in NY is the problem, then that's the exact same thing if you want BTS or any other coin. You make it seem like it's BTS's problem

I mean a simple thing, efficiency. If you have a magic pipe which transfers a magic juice between people, you put a 50 gallons of juice into the pipe and get 45 gallons of juice out of it, your magic pipe is 80% efficient. On your way out you will lose another 20%. This is how bitshares works now.

Put down the pipe man, it only causes family problems. ;)
Speaking from experience?
Hired by blockchain | Developer
delegate: dev.sidhujag

Tuck Fheman

  • Guest

What do you mean? That's 10% spread. Are metaexchange's prices that off? And what do you mean good deal for metaexchange? Last time I knew it was coinbase who charged more each time you bought a btc, not metaexchange. You have other exchanges you can use to get into BTS.

If using coinbase because you're in NY is the problem, then that's the exact same thing if you want BTS or any other coin. You make it seem like it's BTS's problem

I mean a simple thing, efficiency. If you have a magic pipe which transfers a magic juice between people, you put a 50 gallons of juice into the pipe and get 45 gallons of juice out of it, your magic pipe is 80% efficient. On your way out you will lose another 20%. This is how bitshares works now.

Put down the pipe man, it only causes family problems. ;)

Offline yvv

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
    • View Profile

What do you mean? That's 10% spread. Are metaexchange's prices that off? And what do you mean good deal for metaexchange? Last time I knew it was coinbase who charged more each time you bought a btc, not metaexchange. You have other exchanges you can use to get into BTS.

If using coinbase because you're in NY is the problem, then that's the exact same thing if you want BTS or any other coin. You make it seem like it's BTS's problem

I mean a simple thing, efficiency. If you have a magic pipe which transfers a magic juice between people, you put a 50 gallons of juice into the pipe and get 45 gallons of juice out of it, your magic pipe is 80% efficient. On your way out you will lose another 20%. This is how bitshares works now. 

Offline btswildpig

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1424
    • View Profile
Am I the only one here who actually read the costs?

can some one explain to me how its going to cost 16 thousand dollars to adjust pre existing code?

seriously id like a breakdown of why it will take 8000$ in man hours to adjust the fee code, no ones writing a large amount of new code, its an adjustment to a pre-existing system...

the same goes for market fees ?


16 thousand to plug in kyc and deposit / withdrawal ? seriously?

is anyone buying these numbers?

not trying to be a naysayer, i think all this work needs to be done, but for 3x what it actually costs in man hours and expertise? nah bro.


please provide us a breakdown of how the hours will be allocated and why they will add up to 32 thousand dollars for the features i think will take a fraction of the time and work...?

Maybe we should be paying even more to the first developers hired by BTS 2.0 because it's good marketing. We need to attract lots of good programmers to work on Bitshares – and what could be a better way? Since there haven't been any real worker proposals before this, paying little bit extra might give a nice incentive to other programmers out there.

Of course I don't mean that we should be paying outrageous amounts of BTS, but just that we shouldn't be complaining about rates in Cryptonomex's proposal. I would vote for them even if the demanded payrate was higher.

This is exactly how markets work. People notice when other people are making a killing with high margins and then enter to compete. If BitShares wishes to diversify its developer base then it will need to make working for BitShares profitable enough that many people come out of the woodwork to get things done. Using the example of "fixed price contracts" with a 3rd party evaluator for completion means the blockchain can ensure that it actually gets a usable product for the money it pays.

On the other hand if the blockchain decides to be "cheap" then few will bother and those that are around will get distracted by higher paying opportunities.

I for one do not want to monopolize the worker proposals. I would much rather have decentralized development and parallel efforts.

The market does not always work.
When the 1.0 dilution model kicked in , people expected that the dilution rate will be reduced once the stakeholders fears it'll impact the price , then it reaches a balance.
The price kept dropping , and people did fear . But none counter measure has been taken to reduce the dilution rate at that time . Instead , the delegates kept piling up .

Another reminder, if the market does towards a balance like you said , then investors will choose to invest in projects less time consuming, less potential selling pressure, more capital friendly area.
Investors will also be distracted in higher potential profiting opportunities. It is not just the coders are choosing . But how much dilution can you get without crashing the project ? How can you possibly compete with companies with actual capital and actual funding and cold hard cash by dilution from thin air to attract developers ?  You can't find money where there is no money to be found.

My math is not really good . But , lets assume, If by developing these features the price was dumped by the additional selling pressure by 50%,  then what's your next proposal gonna be to attract highly talented developers to work on it ? 50% more ask ? And the justification will still be "if I don't get more . others will offer more" ?

In this equation , while your service is valuable , the value(price) of BTS will be dropping . Just a reminder , my math is not good , so it maybe wrong .  Below is a wild dream : But that means you can somehow ask for 2 billion BTS one day if the price keep dropping and still with a really convincing argument ? Because 2 billion BTS is not even worth the offer that others are offering you , and you will be taking a discount by accepting only 2 billion BTS to work on a magical program that's gonna increase the value of BTS , but no , because the risk is too high , so in order to attract developers , I still have to take 2 billion BTS for now .....

Development is important. But development with a sustainable business model is also important. Using dilution to work on something without knowing if it will increase the value or at least without any calculated or educated proof  and base the amount on the insanely low price (which you proved your own doubt by saying you are not certain if the price will rise in the future)  is hardly a sustainable business model. 

Forgive me , I just read too many books these days to realize business is not just "I do this , it will get more profit."   or "If I don't offer this to that guy , he will not do it for us".....The main question is , How this can generate profit , and generate how much profit by estimation ?  Can the profit at least make up for the cost ?  In how much time frame ? Is there a graph with a curve that make sense ?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 02:21:58 am by btswildpig »
这个是私人账号,表达的一切言论均不代表任何团队和任何人。This is my personal account , anything I said with this account will be my opinion alone and has nothing to do with any group.

Offline luckybit

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2921
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: Luckybit
People in the USA don't seem interested in buying altcoins or Bitcoin right now.

Of course we are interested. But this is a fucking painful process. While trying to bring funds to bitshares last week, I checked many options. I even found a bitcoin ATM in a grocery store next to my block. What a useless machine. Coinbase looks to be the only suitable way to buy bitcoins, but then you need to convert them to BTS on another exchange with almost zero liquidity. So, to deposit funds to exchange you need to go to another exchange and another exchange. Is not this ridiculous?

Thats what metaexchange and others are for. You can buy on coinbase, send to metaexchange and you get the funds in your wallet.youonly need to send them once. Try it and it Will feel much easier than doing what you do. I know cause thats what i did before

Yeah, right. Buying $50 worth of BTC on coinbase, I can get only $45 worth of BTS on metaexchange. Good deal for coinbase and metaexchange.

What do you mean? That's 10% spread. Are metaexchange's prices that off? And what do you mean good deal for metaexchange? Last time I knew it was coinbase who charged more each time you bought a btc, not metaexchange. You have other exchanges you can use to get into BTS.

If using coinbase because you're in NY is the problem, then that's the exact same thing if you want BTS or any other coin. You make it seem like it's BTS's problem

I don't see why anyone would buy BTS with a large sum of money unless there is something they can do on Bitshares 2.0. I think the USD direct purchase and withdraw stuff is interesting but expensive and not urgent. On the other hand I think prediction markets and margin trading are urgent.

You can be an all crypto exchange and do fine, and of course you should have ability to deposit and withdraw USD, but there is the possibility that everyone will immediately withdraw into USD the moment that feature is added and the price could drop like a rock unless there is some reason why they wouldn't.
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline Akado

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2752
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: akado
People in the USA don't seem interested in buying altcoins or Bitcoin right now.

Of course we are interested. But this is a fucking painful process. While trying to bring funds to bitshares last week, I checked many options. I even found a bitcoin ATM in a grocery store next to my block. What a useless machine. Coinbase looks to be the only suitable way to buy bitcoins, but then you need to convert them to BTS on another exchange with almost zero liquidity. So, to deposit funds to exchange you need to go to another exchange and another exchange. Is not this ridiculous?

Thats what metaexchange and others are for. You can buy on coinbase, send to metaexchange and you get the funds in your wallet.youonly need to send them once. Try it and it Will feel much easier than doing what you do. I know cause thats what i did before

Yeah, right. Buying $50 worth of BTC on coinbase, I can get only $45 worth of BTS on metaexchange. Good deal for coinbase and metaexchange.

What do you mean? That's 10% spread. Are metaexchange's prices that off? And what do you mean good deal for metaexchange? Last time I knew it was coinbase who charged more each time you bought a btc, not metaexchange. You have other exchanges you can use to get into BTS.

If using coinbase because you're in NY is the problem, then that's the exact same thing if you want BTS or any other coin. You make it seem like it's BTS's problem
https://metaexchange.info | Bitcoin<->Altcoin exchange | Instant | Safe | Low spreads

Offline maqifrnswa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 661
    • View Profile
CNX has a lot on our plate, we want new developers to come in and therefore we bid HIGH prices for the work.

In other words, we bid relatively high so we can make a significant profit and reinvest it into the industry and other could underbid us.

Our workforce is also limited, so even if we wanted to bid on everything we wouldn't have the manpower to do so.

I support this and it makes sense, as long as CNX doesn't use its influence to choose themselves over an equal quality lower bid. I actually don't believe CNX will do that, as they generally do have more on their plate and the smart business decision is to outsource tasks to those that can do it cheaper than you.
maintains an Ubuntu PPA: https://launchpad.net/~showard314/+archive/ubuntu/bitshares [15% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval maqifrnswa true [50% delegate] wallet_account_set_approval delegate1.maqifrnswa true

Offline yvv

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1186
    • View Profile
People in the USA don't seem interested in buying altcoins or Bitcoin right now.

Of course we are interested. But this is a fucking painful process. While trying to bring funds to bitshares last week, I checked many options. I even found a bitcoin ATM in a grocery store next to my block. What a useless machine. Coinbase looks to be the only suitable way to buy bitcoins, but then you need to convert them to BTS on another exchange with almost zero liquidity. So, to deposit funds to exchange you need to go to another exchange and another exchange. Is not this ridiculous?

Thats what metaexchange and others are for. You can buy on coinbase, send to metaexchange and you get the funds in your wallet.youonly need to send them once. Try it and it Will feel much easier than doing what you do. I know cause thats what i did before

Yeah, right. Buying $50 worth of BTC on coinbase, I can get only $45 worth of BTS on metaexchange. Good deal for coinbase and metaexchange.

Offline lil_jay890

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1197
    • View Profile
CNX has a lot on our plate, we want new developers to come in and therefore we bid HIGH prices for the work.

In other words, we bid relatively high so we can make a significant profit and reinvest it into the industry and other could underbid us.

Our workforce is also limited, so even if we wanted to bid on everything we wouldn't have the manpower to do so.

So it is safe to assume that CNX will be charging a premium for worker proposals, since CNX has the most knowledge of the code and would have the least growing pains when implementing new features?  Would CNX create worker proposals to give other developers ideas for what could be done, at least for the initial first few proposals?  Kind of like you did with the first proposal posted a couple days ago.

Offline fav

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4278
  • No Pain, No Gain
    • View Profile
    • Follow Me!
  • BitShares: fav
so, when do you setup the worker on chain?