poll for changing call_order_update and _account_update fee

[Bhuz]

Since both of these fees are not (and should not be) an income of revenue, I think the fees could be easily set to 1 BTS. (just for spam protection)
I can see no reason to put them at 5 BTS instead.

[clayop]

Committee is reorganized so we can now put this topic on table again. Be noticed that there's also committee guideline ( https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,20510.0.html ). Will you support or reject reducing these fees? 5 BTS or 1 BTS?

[puppies]

I support reducing both fees to 1bts, and will vote accordingly. 

[clayop]

Bump... This might be the next proposal, but currently suspended because committee members (except inits) does not exceed 50%

[xeroc]

I think cube would like to see 1BTS instead of 5BTS ..

[Akado]

I would say 5. 5 is not too significant, yet, is still 5x more than 1 bts fee.

Tranwiser and other shorters are already paying trading fees for buying and selling bitUSD/bitCNY.  We are already making business out of it.  Charging for changing margin positions is an extra financial burden which only serves to discourage shorters. Aside from a small fee to prevent spams, I think it is unwise to put up extra friction to shorters resulting in lower liquidity.  BM agrees to a fee of 1BTS.  I believe this is a good balance.

Reducing from 40 to 5 is putting up extra friction on shorters?

[cube]

I would say 5. 5 is not too significant, yet, is still 5x more than 1 bts fee.

Tranwiser and other shorters are already paying trading fees for buying and selling bitUSD/bitCNY.  We are already making business out of it.  Charging for changing margin positions is an extra financial burden which only serves to discourage shorters. Aside from a small fee to prevent spams, I think it is unwise to put up extra friction to shorters resulting in lower liquidity.  BM agrees to a fee of 1BTS.  I believe this is a good balance.

[Akado]

I would say 5. 5 is not too significant, yet, is still 5x more than 1 bts fee.

[bitcrab]

This fee can be lower it isn't our core business.  I say lower to 1 BTS

+5% +5% +5%

Committee Members, Make it So!

Another "non-business" fee would be updates of votes/proxies (account_updates in general) ..
being a proxy may turn out to be expensive depending on how many worker and committee movement we will see ..

then let's reduce both the call_order_update and account_update fee to 1 BTS?

[Bhuz]

Another "non-business" fee would be updates of votes/proxies (account_updates in general) ..
being a proxy may turn out to be expensive depending on how many worker and committee movement we will see ..

Maybe we could lower that fee too

-It is not a core business fee
-Nor a big source of income
-It could encourage people to vote
-It would help our proxy members

[xeroc]

Another "non-business" fee would be updates of votes/proxies (account_updates in general) ..
being a proxy may turn out to be expensive depending on how many worker and committee movement we will see ..

[theredpill]

I think this should be amost free (just anti-spam fee).

[bytemaster]

This fee can be lower it isn't our core business.  I say lower to 1 BTS

+5% +5% +5%

Committee Members, Make it So!

[freedom]

This fee can be lower it isn't our core business.  I say lower to 1 BTS

+5% +5% +5%

[sittingduck]

This fee can be lower it isn't our core business.  I say lower to 1 BTS

[cube]

@cube:

This is not only to help myself, but also and especially to encourage other shorters.

I definitely cannot supply enough BitCNY,  we need more shorters to join the game.

Yes, I understand that.

If we as a community cannot even provide a comfortable and profitable environment for our existing major partner in bitCNY to grow, how then are we going to attract other shorters/players?

[bitcrab]

@cube:

This is not only to help myself, but also and especially to encourage other shorters.

I definitely cannot supply enough BitCNY,  we need more shorters to join the game.

[cube]

One of the biggest impediments to having more bitUSD and bitCNY liquidities is the lack of big players in creating the bitassets.  Transwiser, of which bitcrab is the founder, is a big player in the bitCNY market.  In fact, Transwiser provides for bts<->bitCNY<->CNY fiat.  There is a huge risk associated with shorting and creating the necessary bitCNY for its customers.

When he is facing difficulties with reacting to a change in the bitCNY price, because of a high magin-position update fee, and he is asking for help, I think as a community we ought to listen.  If we could not support our valued business partners in time of need, our partners are not going to support us too when we needed them.

A number of committee members are of the view that we do need to support our major bitCNY partner when he asks for help.  However, we like to open a discussion and gather feedback from the community members and consider them before arriving at any decision.

Please feel free to share your views.

[bitcrab]

What do we have committee proposals for again?
Votes in the forum are worthless for two reasons:
* every account as a vote
* every account has equal votes
That does NOT represent how the BitShares DAC is run ..

Instead of argumenting about individual fees .. I'd rather see someone do the task of a "Controller" and evaluate different pricing models with projections of how many customers may come in

This post is just to collect feedback from community, to ensure that there is no factors we haven't considered before creating a proposal.
I think to change the fees individuals is also OK, although it may be not the best,  just like " Pareto improvement ".
and I doubt whether a "Controller" model really work in a DAC. but anyone can try, he/she can try to build a pricing model with according fee structure, and finally the  votes will decide whether to adopt.

[sudo]

let's just vote in bts

[xeroc]

What do we have committee proposals for again?
Votes in the forum are worthless for two reasons:
* every account as a vote
* every account has equal votes
That does NOT represent how the BitShares DAC is run ..

Instead of argumenting about individual fees .. I'd rather see someone do the task of a "Controller" and evaluate different pricing models with projections of how many customers may come in

[BTSdac]

what about transfer fee ,
I think transfer fee should lower than trade fee

[MelonMaster]

 +5%

[logxing]

Yes, let's do it!

[bitcrab]

having seen suggestion to reduce more, and also to change the account_update fee, I feel the proposal need change, new proposal will be:

change both the call order update fee and account update fee to 1 BTS(for LTM to 0.2 BTS).

because:

1. neither of these fees is the core business fee.
2.we need to encourage shorters and also votes/proxy.
3.these operation cost few.

please revote.

below is the comment to the old poll, and when I changed the poll the result is: support:32 objection:1 neutral:1   

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I plan to create a proposal to change the call order update fee (margin position update fee) from 40 BTS to 5 BTS(for LTM  from 8 BTS to 1 BTS), please let me know your opinion to this change.

Why do this change?

1. As MPAs such as BitUSD and BitCNY are getting more widely used, we need to encourage shorters to supply more MPAs.
2. Cost for updating margin position is not high.

the poll is for the whole community and will last 5 days.