Author Topic: BitShares Dice FBA  (Read 14940 times)

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Offline tonyk

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If only there was a MAS where those who provide the gambling services could be insured by the gamblers and each other.
If only there was a way to insure against regulatory persecution.

 +5%
Lack of arbitrage is the problem, isn't it. And this 'should' solves it.

Offline btswolf

If only there was a MAS where those who provide the gambling services could be insured by the gamblers and each other.
If only there was a way to insure against regulatory persecution.
Are you trying to sell something?  8)

Offline bytemaster

If only there was a MAS where those who provide the gambling services could be insured by the gamblers and each other.
If only there was a way to insure against regulatory persecution.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Samupaha

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I agree also that because of risks in gambling we shouldn't do it, at least for now. Maybe later when we are so big that nobody can ignore us.

The problem is whether you can get big enough without delving into activities like gambling, which was one of the primary activities that bootstrapped Bitcoin (As well as things like Silk Road)  A key USP of a decentralized blockchain is the difficulty in shutting it down so it stands to reason you may attract and profit the most from activities some people might want to shut down.

Microsoft and some big financial names are also looking favourably on Ethereum, despite the fact that Augur is the biggest Ethereum dapp being developed, which is clearly going to have sports betting as it's bread and butter. The fact Vitalik is writing gambling related smart contracts doesn't seem to phase them either.

In BTS there is a lot of risk though, I just bring it up from time to time to test the waters because the inevitable future is coming on imo

If we are going to go for gambling, it should be done with a plan that really has great potential. Not any kind of ordinary web casinos etc. that have lots of competition. We do not need any licenses, because this is a DAC and anybody can develop the software. Of course Cryptonomex is skeptical about legal risks and that's their decision to make. This should be done by somebody else, preferably some anonymous group so there wont be any possibilities to sue anybody.

Everything should be in the blockchain: bitassets are only accepted money, all transaction types are native, RNG is in the blockchain etc.

It could be even a downloadable "casino-wallet" if running a website is too risky. Maybe that would be the "unfair advantage" that will help gambling feature to stand out from competition?

If we are going to gambling, we have to go big way. I'll oppose any half-baked and half-funded attempts that aren't doing anything that will differentiate them from competition.

Offline puppies

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I was thinking more along the lines of creating an account not linked to me.  Sending blinded funds to it.  Unblinding those funds.  Upgrading to ltm, and using that account to fund and or gamble.  The final hop would be open for all to see anyways.

Edit.  And yes I know I could do all that now, it's just a lot more work than it should be and there is very little blinded activity to hide mine.

That's still just as traceable isn't it? The unlinked account knows who sent it blinded funds and the gambling bank knows the unlinked account for the same reason.

Yes.  But since I would control the private keys for the unlinked account the authorities would need to gain access to my private keys to prove it was me, and without knowing who I am that would be difficult.
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Offline monsterer

I was thinking more along the lines of creating an account not linked to me.  Sending blinded funds to it.  Unblinding those funds.  Upgrading to ltm, and using that account to fund and or gamble.  The final hop would be open for all to see anyways.

Edit.  And yes I know I could do all that now, it's just a lot more work than it should be and there is very little blinded activity to hide mine.

That's still just as traceable isn't it? The unlinked account knows who sent it blinded funds and the gambling bank knows the unlinked account for the same reason.
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Offline puppies

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Imo prior to gambling taking off we need stealth transactions. 

With stealth transactions I could safely help fund development, and could safely partake.

No you couldn't. The hole in the proposal design would be exposed with any seizure of private keys. The government can see who sent them the coins, if they own the private keys.

I was thinking more along the lines of creating an account not linked to me.  Sending blinded funds to it.  Unblinding those funds.  Upgrading to ltm, and using that account to fund and or gamble.  The final hop would be open for all to see anyways.

Edit.  And yes I know I could do all that now, it's just a lot more work than it should be and there is very little blinded activity to hide mine.
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Offline Empirical1.2

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http://lottoshares.com/

AFAIK that's a physical lottery based in tiny St Marteen in the Caribbean, population 80 000?

Lottoshares are just a UIA that receives profits based on it's success, they also have a currently centralized online casino site too.

Ultimately they want to move some aspects of both operations onto the blockchain, but with such a small population they will have a low ceiling and I think they have to pitch/prove the model to the government too.

When they run the numbers it's not particularly appealing when compared to investing, even in most centralized dice sites.

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,18452.msg236687.html#msg236687

And that's if they achieve that...

So again not a good gauge for decentralized gambling potential and as I said previously, decentralized lottery would be a harder nut to crack because it requires a large jackpot to justify playing it over dice. (Though considering traditional lotteries lose up to 50% to taxes, expenses, the lotteries of the future will ultimately be on the blockchain because of much better odds, however being a physical lottery, lottoshares will still have comparable expenses and taxes too.)

Instant confirmations.
People would actually love it.
I hate having to wait so much on Bitcoins you know ?

I don't see as much potential in centralized sites, but instant deposit confirmations is good advantage.

https://just-dice.com/ now uses CLAM crypto-currency,

I asked in their troll box and average deposit confirmation time is 6 minutes so BTS is much better than even that. (Also for the record, their trollbox said their site makes about $1000 per day profit and the stats are there too.) So there is some value in non BTC centralized dice sites.

So, what's a point in making another dice casino? Just negotiate just-dice to accept BTS, bitUSD, bitWhatever. [edit]Or make a CLAM gateway in bitshares and you are good to play.[/edit]

Yeah I'm not a fan of another centralized dice site, but I can see a centralized BTS one would have some advantages & could get a little traction.  (Depending on how it's structured, the point would be to profit, by owning a % of the house at the ground level.) 

I'm looking at the advantages of a decentralized dice site which would have clear USP's and the ability to gain a large market share over time, in the process bringing millions of transactions and income into the BitShares ecosystem to increase BTS value, fund further development and help bootstrap BTS smartcoins.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 05:44:57 pm by Empirical1.2 »
If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline monsterer

Imo prior to gambling taking off we need stealth transactions. 

With stealth transactions I could safely help fund development, and could safely partake.

No you couldn't. The hole in the proposal design would be exposed with any seizure of private keys. The government can see who sent them the coins, if they own the private keys.
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Offline puppies

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Imo prior to gambling taking off we need stealth transactions. 

With stealth transactions I could safely help fund development, and could safely partake.

The backend would be easy.  The front end, advertising, and regulatory compliance would be the killers.
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Offline yvv

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Instant confirmations.
People would actually love it.
I hate having to wait so much on Bitcoins you know ?

I don't see as much potential in centralized sites, but instant deposit confirmations is good advantage.

https://just-dice.com/ now uses CLAM crypto-currency,

I asked in their troll box and average deposit confirmation time is 6 minutes so BTS is much better than even that. (Also for the record, their trollbox said their site makes about $1000 per day profit and the stats are there too.) So there is some value in non BTC centralized dice sites.

So, what's a point in making another dice casino? Just negotiate just-dice to accept BTS, bitUSD, bitWhatever. [edit]Or make a CLAM gateway in bitshares and you are good to play.[/edit]
« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 05:13:42 pm by yvv »

Offline Xypher

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Yea, instant conf, makes it far more interesting.
That said, there are other expenses

1. Licensing guy will need x amount upfront. Lets say I can get it for 2k
2. Development will be another pain in the  bum - we'll need to spend cash there
3. There's the house rake - so that will require funds.
4. Marketing ?

So yea, as much as I'd want to launch this as a weekend project and hand it back to the community, looking at the expenses, I wouldn't jump on it.
Possible ? Yes.
Costly ? Maybe.
Profitable ? Yes.

Offline Empirical1.2

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Instant confirmations.
People would actually love it.
I hate having to wait so much on Bitcoins you know ?

I don't see as much potential in centralized sites, but instant deposit confirmations is good advantage.

https://just-dice.com/ now uses CLAM crypto-currency,

I asked in their troll box and average deposit confirmation time is 6 minutes so BTS is much better than even that. (Also for the record, their trollbox said their site makes about $1000 per day profit and the stats are there too.) So there is some value in non BTC centralized dice sites.

If you want to take the island burn the boats

Offline fav

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@ccedk should have a licence for gambling

Offline monsterer

You could probably emulate a crude decentralised Dice by having a feed price which was just a random number between 0 and 100, say. You'd have to trust the feed producer, which isn't ideal, tho...
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