My failed attempt at trying to explain BitShares and OL to C-CEX. Help needed.

[Akado]

How did you find them ?

Here:
http://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/volume/24-hour/

And then I mailed the small exchanges. C-CEX was the biggest one I emailed. Smaller exchanges have more to win by joining us and if we get just a few, our volume will grow quite a bit and we could then targer slightly bigger exchanges.

[bitacer]

How did you find them ?

[Akado]

I think if they used BitShares, this issue that they had wouldn't have happened

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=485029.0

Since it appears they were exploited, but not their wallets necessarily. Their database just seems to had a few errors. A database must meet the following criteria known as ACID:

Atomicity (transaction is processed as a whole, e.g. if transaction moves money from account A to B you cannot get to a situation when only one balance is updated)
Isolation (concurrent transaction do not interfere with each other)
Consistency (data always satisfies constraints)
Durability (data is stored permanently after transaction is committed)

It seems they didn't follow "Consistency" and were exploited. Look at C-CEX own comment:
Yes. One of our users were able to add about 310 BTC on his balance that he did not own. After that he bought all DRK he could and withdrew it. Our politic now is to work further. All new deposits/withdrawals/trades works instantly. We intend to reimburse all the BTC to customers, but it will take time.
This affected only BTC. All altcoin balances are accessible for trades and withdrawals.
This happen only by our own fault.

This is a point in our favour. BitShares wasn't ready back then but if it was now, we could have prevented that. But it's better if some other member with more technical knowledge explains that to C-CEX as they might have other similar questions i might not be able to answer.

Guess it was my mistake too not searching this previously. Btw @bitacer  please don't flame. I might redirect them to this thread and it's not nice to make fun of other people, specially when you're trying to bring them in.

[Akado]

It seems however he couldn't get past the fact he still needed the cold/hot wallet to be used. And because of that he assumes there's no difference in using BitShares or not.

[Shentist]

[21:25:41] Akado Sang: Thanks for the opportunity. OpenLedger can be considered a Decentralized Exchange Network which runs on top of BitShares 2.0
[21:26:11] C-CEX.com: what is bitshares?

they are trading 57 coins and he don't know 1 of the top 10 coins?

who is he living?

i would at least recognise the name, but maybe i assume to much.

so, why should a exchange join the bitshares network?

1. no database breaches/hacks of their customer accounts
2. more trading opportunities if more partners are joining the network (more liquidity)
3. if they dont have to take care of their frontend like now, they will spend a lot less in money and time
4. they could focus more in customer support and marketing

[bitacer]

I'd offer them some free donuts . lmao hahaha. I think I saw that guy before, he is that mean looking midget with tattoos all over his arms. hahaha

[Akado]

i see one big advantage is that the exchange is less likely to get hacked!

why?

because they dont have to care about userinterfaces and breaches into their database, because there is no database to be hacked.

the only point of failure is that their wallet get hacked. if you look into the past hacks of exchanges, most of them had problems, because someone
took advantage of a security breach in their database, who is holding which coins etc.

now, this risk is taken care, because the bitshares ledger keeps track of this.

i don't understand why you are trying to sell openledger to them? if they want to use bitshares they would issue their own tokens. like in ripple!

I mentioned they could also issue their own tokens. And also the fact their data base would be secured on the blockchain

edit: I acknowledge that by mentioning OpenLedger I overcomplicated things and that could have been avoided.

[Shentist]

i see one big advantage is that the exchange is less likely to get hacked!

why?

because they dont have to care about userinterfaces and breaches into their database, because there is no database to be hacked.

the only point of failure is that their wallet get hacked. if you look into the past hacks of exchanges, most of them had problems, because someone
took advantage of a security breach in their database, who is holding which coins etc.

now, this risk is taken care, because the bitshares ledger keeps track of this.

i don't understand why you are trying to sell openledger to them? if they want to use bitshares they would issue their own tokens. like in ripple!

[bitacer]

[21:41:57] C-CEX.com: I don't get your point at all
[21:42:03] C-CEX.com: Looks like non-sense
[21:42:12] C-CEX.com: I don't understand what are you trying to offer
[21:42:25] Akado Sang: Ok let me finish please

I am still laughing...   

[bitacer]

You handled it pretty good  , phew !

[Akado]

Ok so I sent a pm to Stan, Xeroc, Ronny and KenCode. Xeroc because he's usually able to help, KenCode and Stand because they know how to pitch. I only got a reply from Xeroc and he was too busy so this was my attempt at explaining them this.

Note: BitMex exchange also wants some info.


I'll copy paste the convo below.


[21:23:01] C-CEX.com: Hello!
[21:23:07] Akado Sang: Hey, thanks for the quick reply!
[21:24:16] Akado Sang: I contacted C-CEX about the possibility of the exchange looking into joining OpenLedger, giving the advantages it offers. Was told to add this account on skype, apparently to debate over that matter maybe
[21:24:48] Akado Sang: Do you want me to copy the original email?
[21:25:06] C-CEX.com: Ok. Explain it in short and simple form please What is it?
[21:25:41] Akado Sang: Thanks for the opportunity. OpenLedger can be considered a Decentralized Exchange Network which runs on top of BitShares 2.0
[21:26:11] C-CEX.com: what is bitshares?
[21:26:37] Akado Sang: It's mainly known as a "coin" but it's a financial platform running on the blockchain, where smart contracts can be made
[21:27:08] Akado Sang: Can I share a few links with you with info? You might understand it better
[21:27:43] Akado Sang: https://bitshares.org/ (don't forget to check the technology section)
[21:27:55] Akado Sang: https://www.openledger.info/
[21:28:51] Akado Sang: And there's even a referral program, where anyone can earn based on each user they refer to the network. Naturally exchanges tend to be the biggest referrers and earn more from this. They earn from each account created, for life https://bitshares.org/referral-program/
[21:30:27] C-CEX.com: oh, looks like ethereum
[21:30:28] Akado Sang: I hope this is not too overwhelming. If I may I will mention a few advantages:
- Decentralization. This means the exchange cannot be taken down or hacked like Gox.
- Transparency. Can be audited at all times. Giving it's costumers confidence about the platform they're using
- Shared Order Books. With other exchanges using the same platform, which means more market depth and liquidity
[21:31:26] Akado Sang: Yes! If we could compare both, I'd say Ethereum is like Android and BitShares like Apple. Not in the "superior" way. It's just that with Ethereum you can do more stuff. However with BitShares you can do fewer stuff, but more optimized and scalable with high performance
[21:32:48] C-CEX.com: I understand words, but I don't understand a sense
[21:32:54] C-CEX.com: Can you explain simplier?
[21:33:59] C-CEX.com: with high performance :)That I like:)
[21:35:21] Akado Sang: For example, BitShares might be more limited on some fields, meaning, it "might" not be as versatile for some stuff. But scales better and has an overall better performance. Imagine both like programming languages! Some might be harder to use/learn but are faster and have better performance. Others might allow you to program more stuff more easily but don't have such a good performance!
[21:35:48] Akado Sang: Well, if you're interested in performance you might want to check this page! https://bitshares.org/technology/industrial-performance-and-scalability/
[21:35:54] C-CEX.com: Ok. I see. but what it can do for c-cex?
[21:35:59] C-CEX.com: how it can be used?
[21:37:58] Akado Sang: Basically what we're trying to do is get more exchanges to join our network. The question you might want to know is, how does C-CEX benefit right? You get to provide a better service to your costumers.
Let's assume C-CEX has joined the network and now runs on the BitShares platform! I'll try to summarize the advantages.
[21:38:33] C-CEX.com: What "join the network" mean?
[21:39:01] Akado Sang: Join OpenLedger which aims to be a Decentralized Exchange Network. Meaning multiple exchanges operating on the BitShares Exchange
[21:39:12] Akado Sang: *means joinning OpenLedger
[21:39:26] Akado Sang: I'll try to summarize the advantages and how your business can profit from this
[21:40:04] C-CEX.com: Does that mean that I have to keep user coins balance in bitshares?
[21:41:10] Akado Sang: Well no, they keep their coins themselves! For example, as an exchange, what you give users to trade (or what most of the exchanges do) are IOUs right? It's a token representing for example a Bitcoin while in fact you hold the bitcoins on your hot/cold wallet
[21:41:57] C-CEX.com: I don't get your point at all
[21:42:03] C-CEX.com: Looks like non-sense
[21:42:12] C-CEX.com: I don't understand what are you trying to offer
[21:42:25] Akado Sang: Ok let me finish please
[21:44:23] Akado Sang: Basically all the assets of the user's would be held on the blockchain. Safe from hackers because each user would have the private keys for their own balances. Meaning C-CEX couldn't be hacked and loose costumer funds.
[21:45:03] Akado Sang: Plus they would get to use the features provided by BitShares Blockchain like multi sig, 2fA which is currently being worked on, Prediction Markets, Bond Markets, etc
[21:45:15] Akado Sang: You would provide a safer and more transparent service
[21:45:41] Akado Sang: and you would have Shared Order Books. This would increase market depth and liquidity which is what the traders seek in order to trade
[21:46:15] C-CEX.com: so they can redeem their funds without exchange?
[21:47:17] C-CEX.com: sorry, I still don't get how it works
[21:47:30] C-CEX.com: You must be not aware about how normal exchange work.
[21:47:42] C-CEX.com: This is completely incompatible with what you are talking about
[21:48:18] Akado Sang: What do you mean redeem funds? can you be more specific when you say "incompatible"?
[21:49:05] C-CEX.com: Ok. Users deposit / trade / withdraw.
[21:49:08] C-CEX.com: Let's say DOGE.
[21:49:15] C-CEX.com: How it will work with your platform?
[21:50:44] Akado Sang: Essetially C-CEX would act more like a bridge. I want to deposit DOGE on my C-CEX account. I send DOGE to your deposit address and in exchange, you credit my account with the respective amount of C-CEX.DOGE. Which could be traded against many other assets and exchanges assets AND more importantly, market pegged assets like USD and EUR to hedge against volatility. I forgot to mention that
[21:51:14] Akado Sang: Instead of the IOUs being on your database, they would be secured on the blockchain
[21:51:33] Akado Sang: allowing people to trade them against many other assets.
[21:52:18] Akado Sang: We currently have OPENBTC as OpenLedger's BTC. Imagine you join and other 3 more exchanges join. All of them trading OPENBTC. You get a shared order book with more market depth and liquidity which all traders seek
[21:52:36] Akado Sang: or you can just create your custom asset too if you prefer
[21:53:43] Akado Sang: and you also profit from each account via https://bitshares.org/referral-program/
[21:53:55] C-CEX.com: I still can't understand how it works
[21:54:05] C-CEX.com: I don't want to send users elsewhere
[21:54:29] Akado Sang: You won't send user's elsewhere, you still have your own users, they still use your exchange. Imagine OpenLedger being the backend while your C-CEX website being the front end
[21:54:51] C-CEX.com: how do they withdraw?
[21:55:41] Akado Sang: Through you or any other fiat on/off ramp connected to the network. But if they're using your exchange website, most likely they will withdraw through you, only if you allow other bridges on your site
[21:56:03] Akado Sang: I'll send you an instant exchange working with us, hopefully you can see how it works https://metaexchange.info/
[21:56:11] C-CEX.com: then what's the difference?
[21:56:18] C-CEX.com: Deposit on me, trade on me, withdraw on me...
[21:57:08] Akado Sang: While they trade and held the funds on your exchange, the assets representing their funds, are secured by the blockchain. Not to mention there are also smartcoins pegged to the price of EUR, USD, CNY to hedge against volatility.
[21:57:49] Akado Sang: You could also provide them with other features we are developing like the ones on the "Technology" section. Multi signature, Bond Markets, Prediction Markets, etc
[21:58:07] C-CEX.com: they will withdraw through youSo I will have to maintain the same doge wallet. hot and cold.
[21:58:09] C-CEX.com: no difference
[21:59:53] Akado Sang: Ok. This is my fault I'm not being able to make you understand.. Would you mind if I have a dev come here in a few days and explain it better? And I'm really sorry for taking your time.
[22:01:01] Akado Sang: I just can't explain it any better. I'm don't really possess the technical knowledge. I'm just trying to get in contact with the exchanges. Do you mind me having the devs adding you do explain it better? If you can spare the time please
[22:01:10] C-CEX.com: Yes, please.
[22:01:14] Akado Sang: Thank you very much. Thanks for taking the time.
[22:01:26] C-CEX.com: I need 1. 2. 3.
[22:01:28] C-CEX.com: how it works
[22:01:32] C-CEX.com: step by step
[22:01:43] C-CEX.com: All you say is not compatible with how real exchange work.
[22:01:53] Akado Sang: Okay. Mind if I copy/paste this convo on our forum? So it's easier to understand?
[22:02:01] C-CEX.com: Real exchange has to have wallets running online to make deposits/withdrawals possible.
[22:02:12] C-CEX.com: sure
[22:02:46] Akado Sang: Okay. Once again, thank you for your time and the opportunity. We'll be in touch it was a pleasure.
[22:03:13] C-CEX.com: thanks.

Luckily, he was kind enough to give me another chance! I really couldn't explain his last question about how he still needs a hot/cold wallet to deposit/withdraw coins so that doesn't change anything. I mentioned previously he would act as a bridge.. but honestly that question caught me off guard and I can't really explain it. I tried to emphasize the advantages. Maybe I didn't do it simple enough.


At least i had some initiative but I admit I'm not the best explaining this. I did the best I could. Now I think he's right. I might not be the best person to explain but if I couldn't explain and he couldn't understand, maybe it isn't so simple as it should be? We don't have a 1, 2 ,3 step guide on how it would work, etc. Well, we learn with our mistakes.

Atm I feel like that guy who screws up with the girls he likes but I tried, I'm at ease.

Pitch men @Stan and @kenCode please advise. I know you're really at ease explaining and pitching stuff. So, what did I do wrong, what could I have done better?
@ccedk Ronny did I miss anything? Would you have handled it differently?