Author Topic: Is it possible for bitshares to become a sidechain of bitcoin?  (Read 25949 times)

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Offline JonnyB

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It is possible to do the following:

1. Have all of the witnesses monitor the BTC network for transfers to a designated multi-sig address which is defined by the BTS consensus to be the top 15 witness signatures (max MSIG allowed by BTC).   All of these UNSPENT OUTPUTS get included as part of BTS consensus state.

2. Every time a BTC transaction gets 6 confirmations, the blockchain transfers SIDE-BTC asset to a balance controlled by the first input address (assuming the address is a simple 1 sig input).

3. Allow this SIDE-BTC asset to be converted back to BTC with an operation that makes a request.  For witnesses to produce a block they must also sign off on the MSIG transfer authorizing BTC to be sent to the proper address.

This is something that could probably be implemented in about a month of dev time on the back end.

In theory the witnesses could collude to steal all deposited BTC funds.


without multisig, this is already working on metaexchange.

we recieving BTC -->creating METAEX.BTC
if you send METAEX.BTC back we send you BTC and burn METAEX.BTC

you can see the operations in realtime here http://cryptofresh.com/u/dev-metaexchange.monsterer

what is the value of doing it? would it not be better if we can setup some mulitsig for (blocktrades, opernledger and metaexchange) so we can use the same UIA?

gives this really more value?

Where is the bitcoin wallet  (blockchain.info link)we can monitor? So that we can all check you only issue 1:1 metaex.btc:btc

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Offline Shentist

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It is possible to do the following:

1. Have all of the witnesses monitor the BTC network for transfers to a designated multi-sig address which is defined by the BTS consensus to be the top 15 witness signatures (max MSIG allowed by BTC).   All of these UNSPENT OUTPUTS get included as part of BTS consensus state.

2. Every time a BTC transaction gets 6 confirmations, the blockchain transfers SIDE-BTC asset to a balance controlled by the first input address (assuming the address is a simple 1 sig input).

3. Allow this SIDE-BTC asset to be converted back to BTC with an operation that makes a request.  For witnesses to produce a block they must also sign off on the MSIG transfer authorizing BTC to be sent to the proper address.

This is something that could probably be implemented in about a month of dev time on the back end.

In theory the witnesses could collude to steal all deposited BTC funds.


without multisig, this is already working on metaexchange.

we recieving BTC -->creating METAEX.BTC
if you send METAEX.BTC back we send you BTC and burn METAEX.BTC

you can see the operations in realtime here http://cryptofresh.com/u/dev-metaexchange.monsterer

what is the value of doing it? would it not be better if we can setup some mulitsig for (blocktrades, opernledger and metaexchange) so we can use the same UIA?

gives this really more value?

Offline JonnyB

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It is possible to do the following:

1. Have all of the witnesses monitor the BTC network for transfers to a designated multi-sig address which is defined by the BTS consensus to be the top 15 witness signatures (max MSIG allowed by BTC).   All of these UNSPENT OUTPUTS get included as part of BTS consensus state.

2. Every time a BTC transaction gets 6 confirmations, the blockchain transfers SIDE-BTC asset to a balance controlled by the first input address (assuming the address is a simple 1 sig input).

3. Allow this SIDE-BTC asset to be converted back to BTC with an operation that makes a request.  For witnesses to produce a block they must also sign off on the MSIG transfer authorizing BTC to be sent to the proper address.

This is something that could probably be implemented in about a month of dev time on the back end.

In theory the witnesses could collude to steal all deposited BTC funds.

Thanks for this explanation, This would be a better solution than bitbtc.

FBA wouldn't be a suitable way to fund this, it should be a worker proposal.
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Offline noisy

not all what you are saying is clear to me (or most of that :P), but if this is possible, in my opinion we should at least investigate this further. Is only my impression, that this could be a game changer?
Take a look on: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19625.msg251894.html - I have a crazy idea - lets convince cryptonomex developers to use livecoding.tv

Offline complexring

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A potential solution to allow is to somehow have multisignature wallets associated to the balances that are held in collateral. If we can figure out a viable way of 'swapping' the associated private keys as different committee members are voted in and out, then there's no reason why we couldn't use something like that in order to achieve a pseudo-sidechain with BTC or any other alt.
That we can do today with a .. say 5 of 13 multisig account

Precisely.  Can't go much past 15 for N.  But anything like M of N with  3 <= M <= 8 and 15 >= N >= M should work.

It is possible to do the following:

1. Have all of the witnesses monitor the BTC network for transfers to a designated multi-sig address which is defined by the BTS consensus to be the top 15 witness signatures (max MSIG allowed by BTC).   All of these UNSPENT OUTPUTS get included as part of BTS consensus state.

2. Every time a BTC transaction gets 6 confirmations, the blockchain transfers SIDE-BTC asset to a balance controlled by the first input address (assuming the address is a simple 1 sig input).

3. Allow this SIDE-BTC asset to be converted back to BTC with an operation that makes a request.  For witnesses to produce a block they must also sign off on the MSIG transfer authorizing BTC to be sent to the proper address.

This is something that could probably be implemented in about a month of dev time on the back end.

In theory the witnesses could collude to steal all deposited BTC funds.


Yes.  This is true, that in theory the witnesses could collude.  But, that's the risk some people may be willing to make because if they do collude, that drives the price of BTS down (since it would no longer be trusted) and then said witnesses wouldn't have an incentive to collude (unless they've sold off their BTS holdings).

Offline bytemaster

It is possible to do the following:

1. Have all of the witnesses monitor the BTC network for transfers to a designated multi-sig address which is defined by the BTS consensus to be the top 15 witness signatures (max MSIG allowed by BTC).   All of these UNSPENT OUTPUTS get included as part of BTS consensus state.

2. Every time a BTC transaction gets 6 confirmations, the blockchain transfers SIDE-BTC asset to a balance controlled by the first input address (assuming the address is a simple 1 sig input).

3. Allow this SIDE-BTC asset to be converted back to BTC with an operation that makes a request.  For witnesses to produce a block they must also sign off on the MSIG transfer authorizing BTC to be sent to the proper address.

This is something that could probably be implemented in about a month of dev time on the back end.

In theory the witnesses could collude to steal all deposited BTC funds.
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Offline xeroc

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A potential solution to allow is to somehow have multisignature wallets associated to the balances that are held in collateral. If we can figure out a viable way of 'swapping' the associated private keys as different committee members are voted in and out, then there's no reason why we couldn't use something like that in order to achieve a pseudo-sidechain with BTC or any other alt.
That we can do today with a .. say 5 of 13 multisig account

Offline complexring

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A potential solution to allow is to somehow have multisignature wallets associated to the balances that are held in collateral. If we can figure out a viable way of 'swapping' the associated private keys as different witnesses are voted in and out, then there's no reason why we couldn't use something like that in order to achieve a pseudo-sidechain with BTC or any other alt.

edit: changed committee members to witnesses, as that is the proper terminology for this idea.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 08:58:12 pm by complexring »

Offline fuzzy

It's possible . But our ears would be laughed out by the bitcoin miners seeing how we were bashing them  :'( :'( :'(

i was under the impression miners could do little to hinder other sidechains...
however, i must admit i havent read about sidechains in awhile so im rusty.
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Offline btswildpig

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It's possible . But our ears would be laughed out by the bitcoin miners seeing how we were bashing them  :'( :'( :'(
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Offline JonnyB

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Yeah having looked into it a bit it looks like true sidechains haven't really been invented yet.

Blockstreams version (liquid) relies on a federated version with a multisig wallet type thing.
and the dogecoin to etherum blockchain version burns coins.

I hope someone does invent it because I can't see a time in the future when smartcoins will be viable for any cryptocoins outside of the top 5 by market cap.

Sidechains would be perfect for trading altcoins on bitshares.
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Offline merivercap

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Yes.

However I think in the short term it's easier to just create liquidity for Smartcoin BTC and create a Smartcoin BTC/BTC gateway. 

I always thought using BTC as collateral would be great and you can do that with Public/Privatized Smartcoins.  You can select the Smartcoin BTC as the collateral for  Smartcoin USD.  I've been thinking about working on this eventually. 
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Offline BunkerChainLabs-DataSecurityNode

If what he claimed about an already existing sidechain is true, then yes it is possible.

There has been a lot of talk about the possibility of creating a new type of asset that could support this for trading. It would take a fair amount of time work to implement and it is unclear what kind of benefits returns all that work might bring.

It's unclear to me if its open. Liquid does something similar but for some reason they went another route of using hosted wallets with exchanges. This leads me to question just how available this possibility really is.
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TravelsAsia

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I am not an expert, but I guess a lot of people here are... so the question: Is it possible for bitshares to become a sidechain of bitcoin?

I watched a 28th Jan Daily Decrypt, where Andreas Antonopoulos said that sidechains can allow sending assets from one blockchain to another... like from BTC to ETH

https://youtu.be/kSq-58ElBzk?t=20m6s

More is said in the beginning of this episode, so for some of you I recommend to watch whole episode.

CC: @bytemaster

It would be great if bitcoin and bitshares could merge into some kind of one co-existing network, where bitcoin could benefit from already implemented great decentralized exchange.

This topic is springing up quite a bit in the forum and Telegram. @JonnyBitcoin was exploring if Bitcoin can be a BitShares sidechain.

Offline noisy

I am not an expert, but I guess a lot of people here are... so the question: Is it possible for bitshares to become a sidechain of bitcoin?

I watched a 28th Jan Daily Decrypt, where Andreas Antonopoulos said that sidechains can allow sending assets from one blockchain to another... like from BTC to ETH

https://youtu.be/kSq-58ElBzk?t=20m6s

More is said in the beginning of this episode, so for some of you I recommend to watch whole episode.

CC: @bytemaster

It would be great if bitcoin and bitshares could merge into some kind of one co-existing network, where bitcoin could benefit from already implemented great decentralized exchange.
Take a look on: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,19625.msg251894.html - I have a crazy idea - lets convince cryptonomex developers to use livecoding.tv