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Offline bitcrab


A BSIP is created based on the discussion in last several weeks regarding modifying bitCNY parameters: https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/blob/master/bsip-0016.md

Here is the discussion thread: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22355.0.html
There is also a discussion thread in Chinese:https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,22401.0.html

Please input if you have any thoughts, if there's no persuading objections, committee will create the committee proposal in next Monday.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 04:35:42 AM by bitcrab »
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Re: [BSIP#16]Optimization to Force Settlement Parameters of BitCNY
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2016, 07:00:43 AM »
... committee will create the committee proposal in next Monday.
As stated in the BSIP .. the proposal will have an expiration of 30 days to give shareholders enough time to cast a vote and shorters enough time to settled/sell
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Offline cube

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Re: [BSIP#16]Optimization to Force Settlement Parameters of BitCNY
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2016, 07:06:00 AM »
... committee will create the committee proposal in next Monday.
As stated in the BSIP .. the proposal will have an expiration of 30 days to give shareholders enough time to cast a vote and shorters enough time to settled/sell

The proposed change will affect holders of bitCNY the most.  Should you have any concerns, please voice them before the committee members make their final decision.
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Offline Chronos

Re: [BSIP#16]Optimization to Force Settlement Parameters of BitCNY
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2016, 04:20:47 PM »
@bitcrab there's a typo in your opening post that makes the first link invalid due to extra ']' characters.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 08:42:25 PM by Chronos »

Offline pc

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Re: [BSIP#16]Optimization to Force Settlement Parameters of BitCNY
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2016, 07:33:52 PM »
Here's the correct link: https://github.com/bitshares/bsips/blob/master/bsip-0016.md

This proposal is full of lies and unfounded assumptions.

Forced settlement happens at par value, therefore no "compensation" for the shorter is necessary.

Shorters can mitigate their risk by selling only for a premium above the feed. Robbing *current holders* of CNY, who may be completely unaware of this proposal, is not necessary.

The proposal does not create a new "fee". Fees in BitShares are handled separately. Calling this robbery a "fee" is a plain lie.

Forced settlement is not a "service", it is a guarantee that defines the price floor for BitAssets. Changing this guarantee in mid-game without the consent of current CNY holders is robbery. Committee members voting for such a proposal may be legally liable for the financial damages this causes.

Changing the price floor will obviously affect the trading price of CNY, therefore the claim that only forced settlement is affected is another lie.

Changing an existing guarantee in mid-game will be disastrous for the credibility of *all* BitAssets, and thus harm our entire ecosystem.

Finally, the proposal was created by Bitcrab, who is known to be in a short position and would directly profit from the proposal. He also has a history of acting in his own interests wrt forced settlement. Edit: I take back that statement, after abit's analysis

Edit: looked up some quotes
The settlement will always happen AT the feed

http://docs.bitshares.eu/_downloads/bitshares-general.pdf section 4.1.1:
Quote
The  core  product  of  BitShares  is  a  class  of  assets  referred to  as  Market-Pegged  Assets  (MPA),  BitAssets,  or  SmartCoins and  represent  a  crypto-token  that  has at  least the  value  of  the underlying asset. For instance, a bitUSD can always be sold for $1,  either  to  a  merchant  at  face-value,  or  to  the  network  (by means of settlement of a contract) in return for BitShares’ core currency (BTS) worth $1.

http://docs.bitshares.eu/bitshares/user/mpa.html
Quote
Everyone that holds your (MPA) coin in BitShares can convert the coin into the backing asset at a fair price. This procedure is called “settlement” and ensures that your MPA is always worth at least the fair price.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 07:49:36 AM by pc »
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Offline Chronos

Re: [BSIP#16]Optimization to Force Settlement Parameters of BitCNY
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2016, 07:53:08 PM »
@pc you make very good points.

From the proposal:

Quote
As a reference, TCNY has been set a 2% force settlement offset, the consequence is that almost no holder wanted to request force settlement even when the price for the collateral was very low.

Is Bitcrab involved in TCNY in any way? Perhaps this experimentation should be on that asset instead.

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Re: [BSIP#16]Optimization to Force Settlement Parameters of BitCNY
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2016, 08:19:32 PM »
Is Bitcrab involved in TCNY in any way? Perhaps this experimentation should be on that asset instead.

AFAIK the T in TCNY is for Transwiser. See the signature below bitcrab's posts. The issuer of TCNY is "transwiser-mpaadmin".
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Offline Moon

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Re: [BSIP#16]Optimization to Force Settlement Parameters of BitCNY
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2016, 06:47:01 AM »
... committee will create the committee proposal in next Monday.
As stated in the BSIP .. the proposal will have an expiration of 30 days to give shareholders enough time to cast a vote and shorters enough time to settled/sell


hey,xeroc

We all know mindphlux was a thief,

link:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php/topic,21212.msg275947.html#msg275947


so, Why do we support him .Almost 1 year,
today,he have 215,272,616 BTS vote
how do you think  the price fall? maybe perhaps you can see from here,

we have been around a thief

This is our committee ?
This is our shame !



please revoke your vote

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Re: [BSIP#16]Optimization to Force Settlement Parameters of BitCNY
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2016, 07:00:37 AM »
It is a little far fetched to call the proposal "full of lies". It may present different interpretation of things though (e.g. fee vs. robbery).

Anyway, it seems to be a bad timing for starting such a discussion just when many of the community are busy helping out growing STEEM.
I certainly don't want to rush anything of that importance

I wonder if there are other businesses that would like to support this move besides transwiser
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Offline abit

Re: [BSIP#16]Optimization to Force Settlement Parameters of BitCNY
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2016, 07:51:02 AM »
I wonder if there are other businesses that would like to support this move besides transwiser
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Offline bitcrab

Re: [BSIP#16]Optimization to Force Settlement Parameters of BitCNY
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2016, 09:44:57 AM »
let me repeat:

In common financial logic the collateral should not be force settled without any compensation if the collateral price does not fall below the margin call price.

In common financial logic the collateral should not be force settled without any compensation if the collateral price does not fall below the margin call price.

In common financial logic the collateral should not be force settled without any compensation if the collateral price does not fall below the margin call price.


and please think globally, the point is not that transwiser can be better as a shorter, but this change can make the bitCNY relevant business grow and benefit the whole economy.

we need to make bitCNY supply grow, to make it a useful trading basis, not just a toy,  that is why most of China community members support change.

hlet's also review the history, in v0.9, the bitCNY is there without force settlement feature, at that time bitCNY already works well, when 2.0 times come, the force settlement comes and had scared many shorters, after argument the maximum settlement volume was reduced from 20% to 2%,change always happen, it's not "mid-game" change, it's just continuous improving.

I don't think the input from @pc is persuading enough, and actually I have answered most of the questions in previous discussions, we need not to rush, but need not to fall in endless argument neither.



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Offline Chronos

Re: [BSIP#16]Optimization to Force Settlement Parameters of BitCNY
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2016, 01:37:04 PM »
In common financial logic the collateral should not be force settled without any compensation if the collateral price does not fall below the margin call price.
@bitcrab What do you think about a collateral offset of 0.1% instead of 0% or 1%? If the feed is accurate, that still results in guaranteed profit for the shorter.

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Re: [BSIP#16]Optimization to Force Settlement Parameters of BitCNY
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2016, 01:46:08 PM »
@bitcrab What do you think about a collateral offset of 0.1% instead of 0% or 1%? If the feed is accurate, that still results in guaranteed profit for the shorter.
no matter what you set it, there is no such thing as "guaranteed profit" .. you only make this x% profit if there is a settlement and YOUR call position is settled.
To be the one that gets settled, you need to have lowest collateral which leaves you position at risk of a margin call!!
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Re: [BSIP#16]Optimization to Force Settlement Parameters of BitCNY
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2016, 06:52:33 PM »

In common financial logic the collateral should not be force settled without any compensation if the collateral price does not fall below the margin call price.



Reference, please.

The term "compensation" implies that there is some damage caused by the settlement, which is often the case in "real-world" finance, but not in BitShares.

If the shorter sells BitAssets with a 1% premium he achieves the same effect for himself as with a 1% settlement penalty, only with the premium existing holders are not hurt.
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