Bytemaster and team are no longer working on Bitshares?

[chryspano]

Brian Page   liar

[sudo]

Brian Page   liar

[Stan]

...

It wasn't that no one could figure out how to market, it was that Bytemaster picked a guy that did next to nothing to market it effectively.  I just recently heard a story from someone who went to some Bitcoin conference years ago where BitShares had booth babes. Marketing was good at spending money and I'm sure booth babes are enjoyable to hang out with. Lets not just solely blame the fact that BTC went down in price. There was plenty of mismanaging going on. This affiliate system a lot of us were skeptical about ended up being next to worthless ...

oh i missed those booth babes 

We've had  nearly a dozen talents that have taken a shot at marketing in various styles and approaches.
At one conference in 2014, Brian Page did indeed pull out all the stops to market BitShares. 
He even sponsored the main reception.  But that was just a "next to nothing" marketing effort. 
BitShares Babes hosted it for, egad, well over an hour!  See if you can spot them below. 











Next up?  Hollywood producer/director Paul Aaron, shown here visiting Cryptonomex in Virginia last month.



You probably don't know him from behind the camera, but I'm sure you recognize his son...

[Pheonike]

All you naysayers are just pissing in the wind, while the others are building better ships.

It's been the same way for a long time now, a handful of visionary giants being dogged by a gaggle of myopic treasure hunters who should have never left shore, but simply invested in Apple stock and sucked down more diet coke while watching the 10 o'clock news and imagining themselves to be masters of their own destiny.

Ranting here about how you were victimized while backing a project on the bleeding edge of human imagination is just pathetic.

Some people build ships that cross oceans with their bare hands... and some passengers take masochistic delight in lamenting how their ship hasn't yet arrived in the promised land and that the ocean is vast and filled with terrifying mysteries, but the blame is never with them, always with some other hand controlling their fate, the captain, pirates, or the ocean itself.

Once upon a time the whole lot of you would be keel-hauled.  Nowadays you have the luxury of stinking up the decks with your own vomit.  Let's see where that gets you.

i found this story in my fairytale book:

It was promised to build a great ship, but the builders needed more funds to make their dream a reality. So they looked for supporters and donors and took their funds with the promise to build this great ship. Many of these people believed in this vision and invested their own money in this project.

- so the first ship was built it worked and many of the builders started to build their own ships and promised to give the investors portions of everything they will find

- the headbuilder then decided to destroy all other ships and make a bigger, greater ship, because it would serve as a one unity better then more smaller ships
- the investors could just follow, because the believed the whole project would be fall apart without the headbuilder

- so the great ship got bigger and some investors started to build some attachments to it BUT then

- the headbuilder suprised everyone that he and his friends built a better ship in secret and left the first, great ship behind
- the attachment builders where left behind, because nothing the builded worked with the new ship
- the new ship was not for free, the investors gave up their promise to get 10% of everything, because the headbuilder argued he build the second ship on his own

- many things where promised and everyone where exited again, BUT
- many advantages got chanceled because of time

- after it was clear that nothing will be done in the future without the approval of the community, the headbuilder left the project, because the ship was "ready"
- he builded "again" a better ship, but this time he left most of the investors behind and took some friends with him.

"You are better on your own, everything is ready nothing is left i promised, so i want to do new things"

- the people on the second shipped realized that most of the stuff of the headbuilder left in secret from the cargo. More and more people left the second ship, some swam to the third ship, but most took the rest they had and looked for better builders outside, because they wanted to be a part of something special, but could
not build on their own.

Parts of this story sound familiar, but one glaring fallacy is "most of the stuff of the headbuilder left in secret from the cargo". Steem doesn't compete with BitShares: as has been pointed out already, it only supports trading its own fixed set of assets (Steem and Steem-backed dollars).

There's also the implicit fallacy that no one else but the "headbuilder" could upgrade the ship. BitShares is an open-source project and there are plenty of people capable of updating the BitShares code base. SVK continues to do wonders at advancing the web wallet. One of the original developer's of the blockchain code, Nathan, is working on integration with it now. BlockTrades is also supporting the code base (we developed the peer-to-peer networking code it uses and we just recently fixed an issue in the memo encryption code).

It's true there's not a lot of working going on in the core code right now, but that's mainly because we think adding support for more tradeable assets and improvements to the UI are higher priority tasks at the moment than adding new features to the blockchain code. Nevertheless, there are plans to add some new features to BitShares: we're starting to work now on a mechanism for paying dividends to UIA holders via new operations as an early part of the peerplays effort.

hi dan,

with "cargo" i meant the sold BTS in secret for month.

It is true that many people can take over, but do you really believe that when Vitalik would leave ETH it will not hurth the market and the potential of ETH? People would look into his new "baby" and would ETH leave behind, because they would suspect it will be much better then ETH.

In my eyes the core founder leaving BTS activly behind is just killing for 1 year at least.

It sure hurt bitcoin when Satoshi left.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[Stan]

@Stan

sorry, but did you read your own or bytemasters writings?

Quote from: bytemaster on October 19, 2014, 03:03:59 AM
There are many problems we need to resolve as a community:

1) We don't want to compete with ourselves and divide our network effect.
-->this is the reason why we now do it and not before the original holders had shares in DNS, VOTE etc.
-->i always considered the merger a bad move you can look in the old posts of me, because i invested in AGS because i know i
will get a share of many projects. The merger erased this.

2) We don't want to confuse users with a million brands.
-->great same as above

3) We want to have 1 BitUSD for everything rather than many different BitUSDs
-->great 1 pegged USD is in BTS, but a "better version" is in Steem

4) We need to recognize those who have helped fund development after Feb 28th so they don't compete with us.
-->they will not compete anymore

5) I don't want to have divided loyalties... I cannot serve two masters.
-->this is the reason why bytemaster shouldn't forced anyone into this.

6) We need to provide for long term funding and growth.
--> good luck with steem

7) We need to resolve the consensus problem once and for all.
-->it is solved, because most of the VESTED balances are secured from trusted people

Yes, I did enjoy reading that thinking then and how it has evolved today after 18 months of lessons learned.

Steem is the embodiment of those lessons.  BitShares is stabilized because others need to rely on its stability now, so major new innovations need to be pursued elsewhere.

AGSers like myself at least got something.  Without the merger they truly would have had nothing since there were not enough funds to finish more than one MVP.    ... but history isn't over yet. 

We now have a sweet approach to side chains that we didn't have at the time of the merger allowing simpler chains to enjoy the benefits of a common ecosystem. 

It is easy to second guess now, but at the time there were only two unpleasant paths into Mordor and one was cut off by the Bitcoin market avalanche...



SARUMAN:   So Gandalf, you try to lead them over Caradhras.  And if that fails, where then will you go ?
 
The Fellowship struggle around the side of the mountain, through deep snow, strong winds and heavy snowfall 
 
SARUMAN VOICEOVER:   
If the mountain defeats you will you risk a more dangerous road?
 
As the Fellowship struggle on, the hobbits being carried by Aragorn and Boromir who are thigh deep in the snow, Legolas lightly walks across the snow past them to the head of the line. He listens as he hears echos on the wind
 
A mighty crack is heard overhead, and great chunks of rock fall down from the mountain top, narrowly missing them
 
ARAGORN:   He's trying to bring down the mountain! Gandalf! We must turn back!
 
GANDALF:   No! (he steps out to the edge of the path) Sleep, Caradhras, be still, lie still, hold your wrath!
 
SARUMAN:   (standing on top of Isengard drowns him out) Wake up cruel Redhorn! May your bloodstained horn fall upon enemy heads!



A great streak of lightning hits the top of the mountain above the Fellowship and an avalanche of snow rains down on top of them, burying them underneath it.  Moments later Legolas emerges from the snow. He looks around to see the others emerge

 
 
BOROMIR:   We must get off the mountain! Make for the Gap of Rohan and take the west road to my city!
 
ARAGORN:   The Gap of Rohan takes us too close to Isengard!
 
GIMLI:   If we cannot pass over the mountain, let us go under it! Let us go through the Merger of Moria
 
Gandalf pauses thinking
 
SARUMAN VOICEOVER:   Moria... you fear to go into those mines.
 
SARUMAN:   (in Isengard flicking through a book, stops at a page showing Moria Gate) the dwarves delved too greadily and too deep
 
SARUMAN VOICEOVER:   (as Gandalf hears him knowingly) You know what they woke in the dark of Khazad...
 
SARUMAN:   (turning over another page to show  a firey balrog) Shadow, flame
 
GANDALF:   Let the Ringbearer decide
 
Frodo looks confused and turns to Sam
 
BOROMIR:   We cannot stay here! (Merry and Pippin look frozen and scared next to him) This will be the death of the hobbits!
 
GANDALF:   Frodo ?
 
FRODO:   (hesitating) We will go through the Merger...
 
GANDALF:   So be it

[btswildpig]

It seems more like the real reason behind everything is basically "Bytemaster can't or won't support his previous projects."  The dude couldn't even finish out the STEALTH proposal for reasons I don't get.

All the reasons Bytemaster gave for the merger were known BEFOREHAND. A lot of this is just rationalizing after decisions had been made.

It wasn't that no one could figure out how to market, it was that Bytemaster picked a guy that did next to nothing to market it effectively.  I just recently heard a story from someone who went to some Bitcoin conference years ago where BitShares had booth babes. Marketing was good at spending money and I'm sure booth babes are enjoyable to hang out with. Lets not just solely blame the fact that BTC went down in price. There was plenty of mismanaging going on. This affiliate system a lot of us were skeptical about ended up being next to worthless ...

oh i missed those booth babes 

[Ben Mason]

- the new ship was not for free, the investors gave up their promise to get 10% of everything, because the headbuilder argued he build the second ship on his own

if you think outside the box you will realize that you still can get at least 10% of everything... You have an "inside" information about the opportunity to create some posts on steemit and get rewarded on 4 July... 10% of STEEMS marketcap will "gifted" to all participants in about a Month (in Current valuation it is about $2M and it can certainly increase more) And nobody ask's you to invest any penny... You can just open free of charge a steemit account, make some posts (like you did here for free) and wait for some STEEM dollars... I ensure you it is worth your time.... There are already really strong indications about that...   
I bet many of future steemit user's would love to be on our position and have so early the information's we "luckily" have right NOW... And don't expect the Larimer's to make an official post somewhere to promise you they will upvote many of your  post's because they ow you their existence in crypto world!!! That would be bad PR for steemit ... Don't forget that for the first time Graphene get recognition from many community’s outside BTS...
We must think outside the box... We must see it like a great OPPORTUNITY  ... like a "half" full glass of water !!!  If you are thirsty you should drink it ... and not complaining it is half empty 

i will not use this platform, because it is against my ethical believings, but thanks for the advice, i will not give more time to STEEM as needed.

Requires effort.....so not good enough?

[Shentist]

- the new ship was not for free, the investors gave up their promise to get 10% of everything, because the headbuilder argued he build the second ship on his own

if you think outside the box you will realize that you still can get at least 10% of everything... You have an "inside" information about the opportunity to create some posts on steemit and get rewarded on 4 July... 10% of STEEMS marketcap will "gifted" to all participants in about a Month (in Current valuation it is about $2M and it can certainly increase more) And nobody ask's you to invest any penny... You can just open free of charge a steemit account, make some posts (like you did here for free) and wait for some STEEM dollars... I ensure you it is worth your time.... There are already really strong indications about that...   
I bet many of future steemit user's would love to be on our position and have so early the information's we "luckily" have right NOW... And don't expect the Larimer's to make an official post somewhere to promise you they will upvote many of your  post's because they ow you their existence in crypto world!!! That would be bad PR for steemit ... Don't forget that for the first time Graphene get recognition from many community’s outside BTS...
We must think outside the box... We must see it like a great OPPORTUNITY  ... like a "half" full glass of water !!!  If you are thirsty you should drink it ... and not complaining it is half empty 

i will not use this platform, because it is against my ethical believings, but thanks for the advice, i will not give more time to STEEM as needed.

[Shentist]

@Stan

sorry, but did you read your own or bytemasters writings?

Quote from: bytemaster on October 19, 2014, 03:03:59 AM
There are many problems we need to resolve as a community:

1) We don't want to compete with ourselves and divide our network effect.
-->this is the reason why we now do it and not before the original holders had shares in DNS, VOTE etc.
-->i always considered the merger a bad move you can look in the old posts of me, because i invested in AGS because i know i
will get a share of many projects. The merger erased this.

2) We don't want to confuse users with a million brands.
-->great same as above

3) We want to have 1 BitUSD for everything rather than many different BitUSDs
-->great 1 pegged USD is in BTS, but a "better version" is in Steem

4) We need to recognize those who have helped fund development after Feb 28th so they don't compete with us.
-->they will not compete anymore

5) I don't want to have divided loyalties... I cannot serve two masters.
-->this is the reason why bytemaster shouldn't forced anyone into this.

6) We need to provide for long term funding and growth.
--> good luck with steem

7) We need to resolve the consensus problem once and for all.
-->it is solved, because most of the VESTED balances are secured from trusted people

[gamey]

It seems more like the real reason behind everything is basically "Bytemaster can't or won't support his previous projects."  The dude couldn't even finish out the STEALTH proposal for reasons I don't get.

All the reasons Bytemaster gave for the merger were known BEFOREHAND. A lot of this is just rationalizing after decisions had been made.

It wasn't that no one could figure out how to market, it was that Bytemaster picked a guy that did next to nothing to market it effectively.  I just recently heard a story from someone who went to some Bitcoin conference years ago where BitShares had booth babes. Marketing was good at spending money and I'm sure booth babes are enjoyable to hang out with. Lets not just solely blame the fact that BTC went down in price. There was plenty of mismanaging going on. This affiliate system a lot of us were skeptical about ended up being next to worthless ...

[Stan]

The merger (#2 on my list) was also a crippling blow that crushed the marketcap (which in turn further devastated the potential funds for development). From what Stan claimed in another post, this was because they were running out of funds raised for the first sharedrop (BTSX), but I never heard that argument made at the time the merger proposal was made. ...

From BM's very first post on the topic where he shared some of his concerns with the community:

There are many problems we need to resolve as a community:

1) We don't want to compete with ourselves and divide our network effect.
2) We don't want to confuse users with a million brands.
3) We want to have 1 BitUSD for everything rather than many different BitUSDs
4) We need to recognize those who have helped fund development after Feb 28th so they don't compete with us.
5) I don't want to have divided loyalties... I cannot serve two masters.
6) We need to provide for long term funding and growth.
7) We need to resolve the consensus problem once and for all.

As a community effort we are stronger if we can agree on changes using proof of stake and we should agree once and for all that the majority will rule here.   Those that want a stable money will use BitGold or BitSilver because those are not subject to change, only supply and demand.    If you cannot trust the community of stakeholders to act wisely then create a rigid system with no rule changes and attempt to compete.

My Proposal:

1) Drop all other BitShares brands.... rename BitShares X to just BitShares
2) End PTS...  BitShares will evolve to incorporate every possible feature that stakeholders vote on.
3) If there is a clone then it should start out with stakeholders it thinks are best... because BitShares holders are uniting.
4) Add stake holder approved dilution without limit to BitShares X.
5) Bring in all AGS holders and given them a stake in BitShares X that cannot be moved for 6 months... the ratio that this stake should be given should be equal to PTS market cap... so $5 million or 10% dilution of BTSX allocated to these individuals.    This is effectively BTSX buying out our competition. 
6) Bring in one last PTS snapshot also valued at $5 million for another 10% dilution of BTSX... 6 months until funds could be spent... buy out this competition and end PTS.
7) Our team will focus on no other DACs other than BitShares in general and work to make it the most robust and *FLEXIBLE* DAC out there. 

There will still be other DACs based upon our toolkit  (Music, Gaming, DNS, etc) but those clones will not be dividing my loyalty because they have their own teams and are already known and operating independently of us.  Those who have joined those DACs can attempt to grow them how they see fit and BitShares will be competing with them where we can.

Our goal will be to scale BitShares to handle the transaction volume and users... to solve the scaling problem while still remaining decentralized and allowing 0 barriers to entry for competition except our network effect.

At the risk of calling BitShares one DAC to rule them all... I think we can worry about that after we have achieved critical mass, until then someone else may come along and build one DAC to rule them all and we don't want them to get there if we can get there first.

Once again... just proposals... everything will be thought out and community input is valued.

After the dust settled, my recap a couple of months later:

The Origin of BitShares
Part 8
Experimenting and Pivoting

...

Obstacle:  The Great Bitcoin Recession  For the sake of transparency, we left all the donated funds in BTC and PTS on the block chains where everyone could keep track of how we were spending them.  (Volatility-free BitAssets weren't available yet.)  PTS was supposed to drop as its value was transferred to new products.  But Bitcoin was supposed to hit $1200 by years end!  Instead it dropped like a rock all year long.  By the fall it was clear that our two year runway had been whittled down to one year - and that was about to end!

Pivot:  We rediscovered something every Silicon Valley startup knows well:  working for equity!  Why couldn't that work for block chain based companies?  Why not do the same thing as bitcoin - issue new shares at a slowly decreasing rate.  Except, unlike Bitcoin, we didn't have to burn them.  We could use them to pay employees!  What's a few percent annual dilution when we were expecting value to grow by hundreds of percent in the coming year?  All we had to do is bleed off a few percent of that growth and we could fund much faster growth!

Result:  If Bitcoin could do what we could now do, it could pay 101 small businesses several million dollars a year - each!  Instead Bitcoin gives all that new money to the electric companies to produce global warming.  Even at BitShares current scale, that same rate of token issuance could sustain our 2014 development budget into the future indefinitely.  With just a couple doublings of our market cap we would be looking at 101 full time developer and marketer positions working to grow the whole ecosystem.

Obstacle:  Promises, Promises  We had the solution to all our funding problems and a path to ever-accelerating growth right there within our grasp - and couldn't implement it for BitShares X!  Its Social Consensus and ownership distribution had already been defined.  No Dilution! You Promised! Remember a few posts back when I said that allocating zero shares for development and giving it all to PTS and AGS holders (50/50/0) had been a mistake?  Well that mistake had come home to roost.  BitShares X was boxed into a corner.  Bound by the same suicide pact as Bitcoin and most other chains - no way to fund developers and marketers!  Rats.

Pivot:  That's ok.  We'll just apply that lesson learned to all future DACs we develop.  MUSIC and PLAY had already spun off to their own independent developers, and ME had been merged into BitShares X, but we still had VOTE and DNS on the launch pads.  We would build them to be self-funding DACs - and they could pick up the development and marketing torch for the whole ecosystem.

Result:  Bytemaster turned his attention to VOTE and DNS.  These had to get up and operational and generating funds to pay salaries by the end of the year.  We were about out of railroad track and had to get them up to 88 miles per hour in a hurry!

Obstacle:  Fratricide!  There's just one problem.  Every new DAC we build has to be the best we can build - using all the past lessons learned - or some competitor will seize the opportunity to do it for us!  VOTE would need its own stable BitAsset currency.  To produce that it would need a full-scale decentralized exchange.  It would need its own name registration system.  It would need its own network effect and would be leveraging every poll, petition, and election registration to build it's own huge base of provably unique users.  It would need to become a SuperDAC, able to compete on all possible fronts for all important market depth and network effect.  And BitShares X would inevitably be in its cross-hairs!  Most importantly, BitShares VOTE would be self-funding - able to recycle a few percent of its growth every year into paying developers and marketeers.  We were creating our own BitShares X killer.

Does anyone know where the love of God goes
When the waves turn the minutes to hours?

-- Gordon Lightfoot, The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

Pivot: We had to go back and explain this to the BitShares community.  It wasn't pretty.  We explained that as long as we were building new DACs we would keep learning and applying those lessons to each new DAC.  And each new DAC would want to have its own BitAssets, domain names, and network effect.  Each would be forced to clone all its predecessors and fight for dominance over all our previous efforts.  If we tried to play nice and keep features separate, some outside competitor would come along and combine everything into a SuperDAC.  We couldn't leave that option on the table for them.  BitShares X would have to be upgraded, or face eventual extinction. There was wailing and gnashing of teeth. 

Correct set of mistakes:

• Giving away 100% of BTSX to pre 2/28 donors and not keeping some to pay for development.
• Failing to sell all the donated BTC (for the sake of transparency) before it collapsed in value by more than half.
• No one could figure out how to market it on a shoestring budget.

Mistakes we avoided:

• Continuing to work on BTSX until all donated funds were gone and never doing anything for Post 2/28 donors.
• Switching to spend post 2/28 donotions on VOTE and DNS and have three incomplete projects when the funds ran out.
• Making VOTE into what BTS 2.0 is today and leaving all the Pre 2/28 holders of BTSX with an obsolete subset.
  

Even after that effort to get to an MVP for all donors with the remaining funds, it took another full year of burning our own personal savings and the sweat equity of our developers to get to where we are today.

Now we at least have two viable products still in the game and working developers still available in the community. 
And Steemit has now picked up the innovation funding responsibilities for the whole ecosystem.

Hard to see how that would be true without making the best calls we could at the time.

And, of course, there is another Skywalker...   

[liondani]

- the new ship was not for free, the investors gave up their promise to get 10% of everything, because the headbuilder argued he build the second ship on his own

if you think outside the box you will realize that you still can get at least 10% of everything... You have an "inside" information about the opportunity to create some posts on steemit and get rewarded on 4 July... 10% of STEEMS marketcap will "gifted" to all participants in about a Month (in Current valuation it is about $2M and it can certainly increase more) And nobody ask's you to invest any penny... You can just open free of charge a steemit account, make some posts (like you did here for free) and wait for some STEEM dollars... I ensure you it is worth your time.... There are already really strong indications about that...   
I bet many of future steemit user's would love to be on our position and have so early the information's we "luckily" have right NOW... And don't expect the Larimer's to make an official post somewhere to promise you they will upvote many of your  post's because they ow you their existence in crypto world!!! That would be bad PR for steemit ... Don't forget that for the first time Graphene get recognition from many community’s outside BTS...
We must think outside the box... We must see it like a great OPPORTUNITY  ... like a "half" full glass of water !!!  If you are thirsty you should drink it ... and not complaining it is half empty 

[btswildpig]

I need to upgrade my brain buffer in order to understand long sentence above

[gamey]

Parts of this story sound familiar, but one glaring fallacy is "most of the stuff of the headbuilder left in secret from the cargo". Steem doesn't compete with BitShares: as has been pointed out already, it only supports trading its own fixed set of assets (Steem and Steem-backed dollars).

It does compete when Dan started asking BitShares forum users to stop using the bitsharestalk forum that has a community used by everyone in favor of his latest project. It would be one thing if steemit was at least rebranded in some way, but no, the only value is Larimer backed promises on things to happen.  (Whether your Steemit bucks or future development on BitShares exchange..)  If Steemit is some successful project, I can't even see Dan being motivated to go back to Bitshares.

[dannotestein]

thanks dan for your thoughts.

call me naive, but i believed this stuff "we had to sell for pay our staff " thing etc. so i didn't considered this
kind of ANN on April 1.

sorry, maybe you know more, because you get more information from the inner circles, but for me as an outsider it was not a well placed move. If i had BTS as an interest i would have done it differently, i think we as a community deserved better.

not one big move was discussed openly and we just had to swollow anything. Maybe it is a good thing that now new blood is stepping up, but it will cost 1-2 year time for adaption. i didn't see this happen.

I won't try to argue with you that things could have been handled better. From early on, I think a lot of mistakes were made, and those rippled out over time to cause further problems.

The biggest mistake in my opinion was rushing out BitShares 1.0, before it was really ready, and simultaneously causing a major decline in AGS funding as it froze the snapshot date. I argued with Stan and Dan for several hours in an early meeting on this decision as I thought it needed to be pushed back several months (I got 2 weeks). That loss in funding, coupled with some serious misallocations of the funds received (poor marketing efforts + heavy legal and accounting bills), put a significant crimp in the development of the BTS code base and adoption rate. I hope this won't upset anyone that I think BitShares needed to raise even more funds, but look at how much ethereum raised and think how much better we would be if we had raised more of that money before ethereum ever had a product to show.

The merger (#2 on my list) was also a crippling blow that crushed the marketcap (which in turn further devastated the potential funds for development). From what Stan claimed in another post, this was because they were running out of funds raised for the first sharedrop (BTSX), but I never heard that argument made at the time the merger proposal was made. But if it is true, it only highlights more the original mistake of taking the snapshot too early. The merger in particular also led to a loss of faith in BM's leadership which ultimately led us to where we are now. Where we go from here is up to all of us.

[Shentist]

thanks dan for your thoughts.

call me naive, but i believed this stuff "we had to sell for pay our staff " thing etc. so i didn't considered this
kind of ANN on April 1.

sorry, maybe you know more, because you get more information from the inner circles, but for me as an outsider it was not a well placed move. If i had BTS as an interest i would have done it differently, i think we as a community deserved better.

not one big move was discussed openly and we just had to swollow anything. Maybe it is a good thing that now new blood is stepping up, but it will cost 1-2 year time for adaption. i didn't see this happen.

[dannotestein]

hi dan,

with "cargo" i meant the sold BTS in secret for month.

It is true that many people can take over, but do you really believe that when Vitalik would leave ETH it will not hurth the market and the potential of ETH? People would look into his new "baby" and would ETH leave behind, because they would suspect it will be much better then ETH.

In my eyes the core founder leaving BTS activly behind is just killing for 1 year at least.

It's true that BM sold off some significant portion of his BTS holdings prior to formally announcing his departure to Steemit, but I guess it's been obvious for some time that he was dumping shares (with BitShares being so transparent, moves by whales are usually noticed within hours and BM's accounts were closely watched).

I'm sure BM leaving BTS development to work on Steemit hurt its value in two ways: 1) he hasn't been contributing to BitShares as much for a long while and 2) now that it's formally announced that he's actively working on another project, people can't kid themselves that he's working on BitShares still despite the lack of commits from him.

Despite that, I haven't seen a huge drop in BTS price, mainly because I think many people had already factored this in to some extent and also because some people saw disadvantages to BM's strong control of BitShares development. Now that there's no one that can really dominate the future of BitShares or make huge changes in the rules with limited consent from the community, it's a much more predictable platform to build on.

I don't think it's likely to see people leaving BTS for STEEM, mainly because they are two very different projects. I'm involved in steem, but for entirely different reasons than I'm involved in BitShares, so there's no reason to leave one for the other. I'm more involved with BitShares than ever, as I think we're making solid steps towards what BitShares needs to be and I'll use steemit where I can to promote that. I can also say that nearly all the BTSers involved in steemit are still also very involved in BTS (I know of one exception, but he had left BTS before steemit was ever announced).

[Shentist]

All you naysayers are just pissing in the wind, while the others are building better ships.

It's been the same way for a long time now, a handful of visionary giants being dogged by a gaggle of myopic treasure hunters who should have never left shore, but simply invested in Apple stock and sucked down more diet coke while watching the 10 o'clock news and imagining themselves to be masters of their own destiny.

Ranting here about how you were victimized while backing a project on the bleeding edge of human imagination is just pathetic.

Some people build ships that cross oceans with their bare hands... and some passengers take masochistic delight in lamenting how their ship hasn't yet arrived in the promised land and that the ocean is vast and filled with terrifying mysteries, but the blame is never with them, always with some other hand controlling their fate, the captain, pirates, or the ocean itself.

Once upon a time the whole lot of you would be keel-hauled.  Nowadays you have the luxury of stinking up the decks with your own vomit.  Let's see where that gets you.

i found this story in my fairytale book:

It was promised to build a great ship, but the builders needed more funds to make their dream a reality. So they looked for supporters and donors and took their funds with the promise to build this great ship. Many of these people believed in this vision and invested their own money in this project.

- so the first ship was built it worked and many of the builders started to build their own ships and promised to give the investors portions of everything they will find

- the headbuilder then decided to destroy all other ships and make a bigger, greater ship, because it would serve as a one unity better then more smaller ships
- the investors could just follow, because the believed the whole project would be fall apart without the headbuilder

- so the great ship got bigger and some investors started to build some attachments to it BUT then

- the headbuilder suprised everyone that he and his friends built a better ship in secret and left the first, great ship behind
- the attachment builders where left behind, because nothing the builded worked with the new ship
- the new ship was not for free, the investors gave up their promise to get 10% of everything, because the headbuilder argued he build the second ship on his own

- many things where promised and everyone where exited again, BUT
- many advantages got chanceled because of time

- after it was clear that nothing will be done in the future without the approval of the community, the headbuilder left the project, because the ship was "ready"
- he builded "again" a better ship, but this time he left most of the investors behind and took some friends with him.

"You are better on your own, everything is ready nothing is left i promised, so i want to do new things"

- the people on the second shipped realized that most of the stuff of the headbuilder left in secret from the cargo. More and more people left the second ship, some swam to the third ship, but most took the rest they had and looked for better builders outside, because they wanted to be a part of something special, but could
not build on their own.

Parts of this story sound familiar, but one glaring fallacy is "most of the stuff of the headbuilder left in secret from the cargo". Steem doesn't compete with BitShares: as has been pointed out already, it only supports trading its own fixed set of assets (Steem and Steem-backed dollars).

There's also the implicit fallacy that no one else but the "headbuilder" could upgrade the ship. BitShares is an open-source project and there are plenty of people capable of updating the BitShares code base. SVK continues to do wonders at advancing the web wallet. One of the original developer's of the blockchain code, Nathan, is working on integration with it now. BlockTrades is also supporting the code base (we developed the peer-to-peer networking code it uses and we just recently fixed an issue in the memo encryption code).

It's true there's not a lot of working going on in the core code right now, but that's mainly because we think adding support for more tradeable assets and improvements to the UI are higher priority tasks at the moment than adding new features to the blockchain code. Nevertheless, there are plans to add some new features to BitShares: we're starting to work now on a mechanism for paying dividends to UIA holders via new operations as an early part of the peerplays effort.

hi dan,

with "cargo" i meant the sold BTS in secret for month.

It is true that many people can take over, but do you really believe that when Vitalik would leave ETH it will not hurth the market and the potential of ETH? People would look into his new "baby" and would ETH leave behind, because they would suspect it will be much better then ETH.

In my eyes the core founder leaving BTS activly behind is just killing for 1 year at least.

[dannotestein]

All you naysayers are just pissing in the wind, while the others are building better ships.

It's been the same way for a long time now, a handful of visionary giants being dogged by a gaggle of myopic treasure hunters who should have never left shore, but simply invested in Apple stock and sucked down more diet coke while watching the 10 o'clock news and imagining themselves to be masters of their own destiny.

Ranting here about how you were victimized while backing a project on the bleeding edge of human imagination is just pathetic.

Some people build ships that cross oceans with their bare hands... and some passengers take masochistic delight in lamenting how their ship hasn't yet arrived in the promised land and that the ocean is vast and filled with terrifying mysteries, but the blame is never with them, always with some other hand controlling their fate, the captain, pirates, or the ocean itself.

Once upon a time the whole lot of you would be keel-hauled.  Nowadays you have the luxury of stinking up the decks with your own vomit.  Let's see where that gets you.

i found this story in my fairytale book:

It was promised to build a great ship, but the builders needed more funds to make their dream a reality. So they looked for supporters and donors and took their funds with the promise to build this great ship. Many of these people believed in this vision and invested their own money in this project.

- so the first ship was built it worked and many of the builders started to build their own ships and promised to give the investors portions of everything they will find

- the headbuilder then decided to destroy all other ships and make a bigger, greater ship, because it would serve as a one unity better then more smaller ships
- the investors could just follow, because the believed the whole project would be fall apart without the headbuilder

- so the great ship got bigger and some investors started to build some attachments to it BUT then

- the headbuilder suprised everyone that he and his friends built a better ship in secret and left the first, great ship behind
- the attachment builders where left behind, because nothing the builded worked with the new ship
- the new ship was not for free, the investors gave up their promise to get 10% of everything, because the headbuilder argued he build the second ship on his own

- many things where promised and everyone where exited again, BUT
- many advantages got chanceled because of time

- after it was clear that nothing will be done in the future without the approval of the community, the headbuilder left the project, because the ship was "ready"
- he builded "again" a better ship, but this time he left most of the investors behind and took some friends with him.

"You are better on your own, everything is ready nothing is left i promised, so i want to do new things"

- the people on the second shipped realized that most of the stuff of the headbuilder left in secret from the cargo. More and more people left the second ship, some swam to the third ship, but most took the rest they had and looked for better builders outside, because they wanted to be a part of something special, but could
not build on their own.

Parts of this story sound familiar, but one glaring fallacy is "most of the stuff of the headbuilder left in secret from the cargo". Steem doesn't compete with BitShares: as has been pointed out already, it only supports trading its own fixed set of assets (Steem and Steem-backed dollars).

There's also the implicit fallacy that no one else but the "headbuilder" could upgrade the ship. BitShares is an open-source project and there are plenty of people capable of updating the BitShares code base. SVK continues to do wonders at advancing the web wallet. One of the original developer's of the blockchain code, Nathan, is working on integration with it now. BlockTrades is also supporting the code base (we developed the peer-to-peer networking code it uses and we just recently fixed an issue in the memo encryption code).

It's true there's not a lot of working going on in the core code right now, but that's mainly because we think adding support for more tradeable assets and improvements to the UI are higher priority tasks at the moment than adding new features to the blockchain code. Nevertheless, there are plans to add some new features to BitShares: we're starting to work now on a mechanism for paying dividends to UIA holders via new operations as an early part of the peerplays effort.

[D4vegee]

All you naysayers are just pissing in the wind, while the others are building better ships.

It's been the same way for a long time now, a handful of visionary giants being dogged by a gaggle of myopic treasure hunters who should have never left shore, but simply invested in Apple stock and sucked down more diet coke while watching the 10 o'clock news and imagining themselves to be masters of their own destiny.

Ranting here about how you were victimized while backing a project on the bleeding edge of human imagination is just pathetic.

Some people build ships that cross oceans with their bare hands... and some passengers take masochistic delight in lamenting how their ship hasn't yet arrived in the promised land and that the ocean is vast and filled with terrifying mysteries, but the blame is never with them, always with some other hand controlling their fate, the captain, pirates, or the ocean itself.

Once upon a time the whole lot of you would be keel-hauled.  Nowadays you have the luxury of stinking up the decks with your own vomit.  Let's see where that gets you.

i found this story in my fairytale book:

It was promised to build a great ship, but the builders needed more funds to make their dream a reality. So they looked for supporters and donors and took their funds with the promise to build this great ship. Many of these people believed in this vision and invested their own money in this project.

- so the first ship was built it worked and many of the builders started to build their own ships and promised to give the investors portions of everything they will find

- the headbuilder then decided to destroy all other ships and make a bigger, greater ship, because it would serve as a one unity better then more smaller ships
- the investors could just follow, because the believed the whole project would be fall apart without the headbuilder

- so the great ship got bigger and some investors started to build some attachments to it BUT then

- the headbuilder suprised everyone that he and his friends built a better ship in secret and left the first, great ship behind
- the attachment builders where left behind, because nothing the builded worked with the new ship
- the new ship was not for free, the investors gave up their promise to get 10% of everything, because the headbuilder argued he build the second ship on his own

- many things where promised and everyone where exited again, BUT
- many advantages got chanceled because of time

- after it was clear that nothing will be done in the future without the approval of the community, the headbuilder left the project, because the ship was "ready"
- he builded "again" a better ship, but this time he left most of the investors behind and took some friends with him.

"You are better on your own, everything is ready nothing is left i promised, so i want to do new things"

- the people on the second shipped realized that most of the stuff of the headbuilder left in secret from the cargo. More and more people left the second ship, some swam to the third ship, but most took the rest they had and looked for better builders outside, because they wanted to be a part of something special, but could
not build on their own.

Summed up perfectly.

[Shentist]

All you naysayers are just pissing in the wind, while the others are building better ships.

It's been the same way for a long time now, a handful of visionary giants being dogged by a gaggle of myopic treasure hunters who should have never left shore, but simply invested in Apple stock and sucked down more diet coke while watching the 10 o'clock news and imagining themselves to be masters of their own destiny.

Ranting here about how you were victimized while backing a project on the bleeding edge of human imagination is just pathetic.

Some people build ships that cross oceans with their bare hands... and some passengers take masochistic delight in lamenting how their ship hasn't yet arrived in the promised land and that the ocean is vast and filled with terrifying mysteries, but the blame is never with them, always with some other hand controlling their fate, the captain, pirates, or the ocean itself.

Once upon a time the whole lot of you would be keel-hauled.  Nowadays you have the luxury of stinking up the decks with your own vomit.  Let's see where that gets you.

i found this story in my fairytale book:

It was promised to build a great ship, but the builders needed more funds to make their dream a reality. So they looked for supporters and donors and took their funds with the promise to build this great ship. Many of these people believed in this vision and invested their own money in this project.

- so the first ship was built it worked and many of the builders started to build their own ships and promised to give the investors portions of everything they will find

- the headbuilder then decided to destroy all other ships and make a bigger, greater ship, because it would serve as a one unity better then more smaller ships
- the investors could just follow, because the believed the whole project would be fall apart without the headbuilder

- so the great ship got bigger and some investors started to build some attachments to it BUT then

- the headbuilder suprised everyone that he and his friends built a better ship in secret and left the first, great ship behind
- the attachment builders where left behind, because nothing the builded worked with the new ship
- the new ship was not for free, the investors gave up their promise to get 10% of everything, because the headbuilder argued he build the second ship on his own

- many things where promised and everyone where exited again, BUT
- many advantages got chanceled because of time

- after it was clear that nothing will be done in the future without the approval of the community, the headbuilder left the project, because the ship was "ready"
- he builded "again" a better ship, but this time he left most of the investors behind and took some friends with him.

"You are better on your own, everything is ready nothing is left i promised, so i want to do new things"

- the people on the second shipped realized that most of the stuff of the headbuilder left in secret from the cargo. More and more people left the second ship, some swam to the third ship, but most took the rest they had and looked for better builders outside, because they wanted to be a part of something special, but could
not build on their own.

[lil_jay890]

All you naysayers are just pissing in the wind, while the others are building better ships.

It's been the same way for a long time now, a handful of visionary giants being dogged by a gaggle of myopic treasure hunters who should have never left shore, but simply invested in Apple stock and sucked down more diet coke while watching the 10 o'clock news and imagining themselves to be masters of their own destiny.

Ranting here about how you were victimized while backing a project on the bleeding edge of human imagination is just pathetic.

Some people build ships that cross oceans with their bare hands... and some passengers take masochistic delight in lamenting how their ship hasn't yet arrived in the promised land and that the ocean is vast and filled with terrifying mysteries, but the blame is never with them, always with some other hand controlling their fate, the captain, pirates, or the ocean itself.

Once upon a time the whole lot of you would be keel-hauled.  Nowadays you have the luxury of stinking up the decks with your own vomit.  Let's see where that gets you.

Please give us some reasons on how you believe the larimers didn't take advantage of their investors...

So far I have not seen anything thst shows they are even remotely shareholder friendly.  Some of the things they have done are borderline fraudulent.

The best companies treat there shareholders well while also continuing to innovate.  You need one to have the other. Constantly shifting projects and discarding former investors just continues to damage their credibility.  Without fair treatment investors, people don't invest anymore and you lose your development funds.

I've seen the post that says we are acting entitled and we should shut up and quit whining.  The fact is we are entitled. We are entitled to transparency and honesty from the sellers and leaders of our investment. That's all people really want. The way cnx does business is so opaque, but it wasn't always like that until sometime around the merger.  They changed the way they communicated and that's where the problems began.

I could probably count the remaining larimers supporters on 2 hands.  There use to be thousands who steadfastly supported everything he did.  If that doesn't show you something went wrong along the way, then you have drunken way too much of the Kool Aid

[lovejoy]

Now that I got that out of my system, I think I'll buy some more BTS.   

[lovejoy]

All you naysayers are just pissing in the wind, while the others are building better ships.

It's been the same way for a long time now, a handful of visionary giants being dogged by a gaggle of myopic treasure hunters who should have never left shore, but simply invested in Apple stock and sucked down more diet coke while watching the 10 o'clock news and imagining themselves to be masters of their own destiny.

Ranting here about how you were victimized while backing a project on the bleeding edge of human imagination is just pathetic.

Some people build ships that cross oceans with their bare hands... and some passengers take masochistic delight in lamenting how their ship hasn't yet arrived in the promised land and that the ocean is vast and filled with terrifying mysteries, but the blame is never with them, always with some other hand controlling their fate, the captain, pirates, or the ocean itself.

Once upon a time the whole lot of you would be keel-hauled.  Nowadays you have the luxury of stinking up the decks with your own vomit.  Let's see where that gets you.

[xeroc]

Wow. The only question I have now is how long until Steem adopts/steals BTS's concepts without actually bringing all BTS holders on board? You guys have to realize this is going to happen right? BM and company made a new Bitshares. They just went about it backwards and made something new and different to separate itself from BTS, then walla. Introducing Steem Dex and pegged currencies, steemUSD......

In STEEM there are only 3 assets .. and no more are available. If you took a look at the protocol level implementation of this, you would understand that STEEM will never be as flexible as BitShares when it comes to being a multi-asset DEX.

[NewMine]

Steem is based on graphene, the same sources as BitShares, and does not compete with BitShares directly (only for the developer time)
Many of the improments made in Steem have been promised to be migrated over to BitShares once final.

Wow. The only question I have now is how long until Steem adopts/steals BTS's concepts without actually bringing all BTS holders on board? You guys have to realize this is going to happen right? BM and company made a new Bitshares. They just went about it backwards and made something new and different to separate itself from BTS, then walla. Introducing Steem Dex and pegged currencies, steemUSD......

[Erlich Bachman]

lol, well frankly, my schlong is certainly big enough to please me, ladies


oops, sorry, wrong forum


thought i'd stumbled into the pussy section


after reading these teary eyed posts around here, can you blame me?


whelp, I guess, I'm off in search of the men's forum









oh, and the answer to the OP is, of course BM is still perfecting the Graphene engine that powers BitShares.  STEEM has the same type of motor.



A nickel invested by an 8th grader in the Ethereum IPO cashed out today would be enough to purchase your entire BTS stake, so I suggest you sell it to the snot nose kid pronto, and then dry your tears so that you can see what happens next.

[chryspano]

hm.... I'm not quite sure about that, what really happened, and how you represent it happening are two completly different things.

Btw what do you do when the price starts to recover and you are short? You call newmine and friends ofcourse and hope for the "best"!

[Pheonike]

The lesson is, when you try to make everyone happy  no one is happy. If you try to make yourself happy, at least one person is.

[tonyk]

Here is a question for the trolls, is there any scenario in which bitshares does not go to the moon without someone being labeled a criminal/scammer???

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

No one is talking about bitshares being a scam here... we are talking (as the title of the thread says) about how the Larimers are no longer working on bitshares.  They have jumped to a new project in hopes that they can sell more investments.  Bitshares is beyond their control, so there is no longer any use for them to stay.

In my opinion I think CNX thought they could use the bts worker proposal system as a cash cow... but it backfired on them.

I tend to agree. And they do not want to just be paid for useful work they want to do on BTS. That is too much trouble - explaining, defending the need of that work/feature. What they want is full freedom to do whatever work come to their mind...unobstructed, uncontested, fully appreciated and voted in 'no question asked' the second such work is proposed [btw, that is the logic behind me thinking the so called non-dilution might have a valid point... but  everybody "knew" what they are - they are just stupid and or want to destroy bts by stopping all development]

And BM and co. are indeed learning their lessons and getting better at what they do. They came with something better for their needs. I agree with their assessment - That is to say STEEM is much much better positioned to serve their agenda. Even moderate success of steem will get them their guaranteed stream of income they so crave.... unfortunately that same design so good for milking relatively small amounts (hundred of thousands yearly), is a design that prevents the true big success of the project of even being possible.

PS BTW they same improved design will be a enormous night mare (BTS being a true child play in comparison) if/when BM someday decides he is no longer interested in that toy anymore.

[nomoreheroes7]

[lil_jay890]

Here is a question for the trolls, is there any scenario in which bitshares does not go to the moon without someone being labeled a criminal/scammer???

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

No one is talking about bitshares being a scam here... we are talking (as the title of the thread says) about how the Larimers are no longer working on bitshares.  They have jumped to a new project in hopes that they can sell more investments.  Bitshares is beyond their control, so there is no longer any use for them to stay.

In my opinion I think CNX thought they could use the bts worker proposal system as a cash cow... but it backfired on them.

Imagine that, trying to profit of something you create. Shame on them.

If their only motivation was to scam, why give control to community? They gambled, rightfully that their vision of BTS was the best. The users  disagreed. Now they are considered criminals because they are applying the lessons learned elsewhere?

If cheating people out of money was their goal, I could think of a thousand easier ways considering as you say, "crypto investors are stupid"

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

You and Crispy are the ideal investors for the Larimers...

You will buy whatever they sell, AGS/PTS/DNS/BTSX/BTS/BTS2.0/Brownies/Steem, and defend their sale pitch to the death.  They crushed the shareholders in all but one of those investments, but don't worry I'm sure steem will follow in all it's predecessors footsteps.

Their is no point in arguing with fans like you guys, since you will cling to the hope that Dan is Steve Jobs until either your broke or he disappears.

Here's the pattern: 
-They create a coin that they heavily control
-Pump the shit out of it by making outlandish promises and creating FOMO (Top Secret Business's, soon to happen marketing campaigns, cool new features like Bond, Stealth and Liquidity Markets!,  whole countries using bitshares to vote, 10% sharedrop on all new blockchains based off the toolbox, Summer announcements and Winter Storm Warnings, Pump posts, and the outright saying that BTS will be worth just as much as ethereum in a few months)
-None of the above comes true... And I mean none of it.  No proposals and the promise of 10% sharedrop is debunked.
-Meanwhile they are unloading their shares on You and Crispy.
-Majority of the community figures this out and starts dumping as well, realizing they were screwed.
-They create a new coin and repeat the whole thing over again, promising that this investment is the one that will make you rich.

This isn't trolling, it's reciting of what has ACTUALLY happened.  They have literally done this with 8 different investments

[chryspano]

Call me asshole but Im bullish!

You are making the Trolls agry! stop that! You are not allowed to say such words! LOL

Oh the irony. The only troll I see in this thread is you @chryspano.

Then your "vision" needs fixed, nevertheless it's a really nice small first step but you have a lot of work left to do...

If you have to counter every critical position...

Don't make me laught... it's your problem if you can't read behind the lines.

If you want constructive critisism you are looking at the wrong thread, this is a troll lair.

[Pheonike]

Here is a question for the trolls, is there any scenario in which bitshares does not go to the moon without someone being labeled a criminal/scammer???

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

No one is talking about bitshares being a scam here... we are talking (as the title of the thread says) about how the Larimers are no longer working on bitshares.  They have jumped to a new project in hopes that they can sell more investments.  Bitshares is beyond their control, so there is no longer any use for them to stay.

In my opinion I think CNX thought they could use the bts worker proposal system as a cash cow... but it backfired on them.

Imagine that, trying to profit off something you create. Shame on them.

If their only motivation was to scam, why give control to community? They gambled, rightfully that their vision of BTS was the best. The users  disagreed. Now they are considered criminals because they are applying the lessons learned elsewhere?

If cheating people out of money was their goal, I could think of a thousand easier ways considering as you say, "crypto investors are stupid"

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[lil_jay890]

Here is a question for the trolls, is there any scenario in which bitshares does not go to the moon without someone being labeled a criminal/scammer???

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

No one is talking about bitshares being a scam here... we are talking (as the title of the thread says) about how the Larimers are no longer working on bitshares.  They have jumped to a new project in hopes that they can sell more investments.  Bitshares is beyond their control, so there is no longer any use for them to stay.

In my opinion I think CNX thought they could use the bts worker proposal system as a cash cow... but it backfired on them.

[unreadPostsSinceLastVisit]

I for one miss seeing newmine's posts. He may have been a bit over the top, but hell there's been at least some truth to a lot of what he's said over time. BitShares needs its critics so it can know what it's doing wrong and find ways to fix the problem through open discussion. But I see everyone's ready to just grab a pitchfork around here and demand silence from any who dare speak ill of the almighty BTS.

 

I agree. Sometimes I disagree with NewMine. Sometimes I agree. Sometimes he was right and I was wrong. Welcome back NewMine.

[Pheonike]

Here is a question for the trolls, is there any scenario in which bitshares does not go to the moon without someone being labeled a criminal/scammer???

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[Frodo]

Call me asshole but Im bullish!

You are making the Trolls agry! stop that! You are not allowed to say such words! LOL

Oh the irony. The only troll I see in this thread is you @chryspano . If you have to counter every critical position with "look them trolls" you are probably way too invested.

Bitsharestalk has been extremely interesting to follow since the beginning but I fear that this time is officially over now. And steem has yet to prove that it can provide the same experience.

[chryspano]

I almost forgot...

[chryspano]

Call me asshole but Im bullish!

You are making the Trolls agry! stop that! You are not allowed to say such words! LOL

Other than that...
guys please leave the trolls some time to rest!

I'm sure they will not miss the oportunity to open a new thread later to express their "legitimate concerns" again and again and again...

Btw I still can't understand why they also become angry when we call them by their real names...

[bitsharesbrazil]

Call me asshole but Im bullish!

[Tuck Fheman]

Wasn't the site updated and now if just one downvote is cast (before 2 upvotes I believe) the set of voting icons disappears from the main page, the post is marked as read and the summary is removed from displaying or am I wrong?  I could be wrong, but that is just what appears to happen now. The only way you can upvote those post is to come across one and click to view it. But it appears users are being discouraged from viewing them by a single downvote. That's not exactly a "community's downvotes". I get why it's being done, but I don't agree with the current implementation. Someone can sick the bot on them (like "someone" has the gardenlady, but in a good way) and as soon as they post they are downvoted into most never looking at the post because they will assume it's spam or not worthwhile.

You should mention that on STEEM. I'll upvote your discussion of it. I hadn't realized that was what was happening, but we cannot let one downvote have that much of a detrimental effect.

I'm good. I don't see the point in moving a current conversation from here to Steemit just for an upvote, but thanks for the offer.

Example : https://goo.gl/6rul3Y

5 upvotes, 1 downvote and 15 comments and it's voting icons are removed from main pages.

[donkeypong]

Wasn't the site updated and now if just one downvote is cast (before 2 upvotes I believe) the set of voting icons disappears from the main page, the post is marked as read and the summary is removed from displaying or am I wrong?  I could be wrong, but that is just what appears to happen now. The only way you can upvote those post is to come across one and click to view it. But it appears users are being discouraged from viewing them by a single downvote. That's not exactly a "community's downvotes". I get why it's being done, but I don't agree with the current implementation. Someone can sick the bot on them (like "someone" has the gardenlady, but in a good way) and as soon as they post they are downvoted into most never looking at the post because they will assume it's spam or not worthwhile.

You should mention that on STEEM. I'll upvote your discussion of it. I hadn't realized that was what was happening, but we cannot let one downvote have that much of a detrimental effect.

[Empirical1.2]

And most importantly...they already have (as one of the first orders of business) the bots to auto vote up or down posts by accounts they like/dislike...one of the parameters is even to do such burial in 0 seconds after a post. It is a no brainer that such automation on account and not posts voting, is so simple and easy to 'improve' to next include new accounts to be destroyed for simply voting 'for' a post by an account on the blacklist of the vote-masters...  Now each poster not only should not express a different opinion, but should restrain from even voting for something that the masters might not like, for the fear of being auto-blacklisted.
censorship automation nice steaming touch to the already existing total control  monopoly...

Why did you know so much, Tony? When you started to hate sth, you look into it to find more reasons to amplify the hate? Why not save some time & just ignore it?

Trolls can't ignore, they have to feed on something or else wither and die.

What I find hilarious is whenever we bring up actual real issues about the larimers and their massive screwing  and probably illegal actions against their shareholders (of various instruments), we get labeled as trolls.  No rebuttals, just dumb ass one liners and pictures of caves and bridges.

Please someone tell me how the larimers have not screwed their shareholders in every investment vehicle they have ever sold.  You may think your on the rocketship with steem, but why would you think it would end up any different from any other investment they sold to you?

Why not hold then accountable for at least one project instead of following them blindly until you're bankrupt?

This is all experimental high risk stuff. What I find amazing is how people complain about all rules and regulations of the fiat world and then the minute something doesn't go the way they expect, they want to drag all that stuff to crypto. If you want rules and regulations, why he'll are you messing with crypto??? Stay in the fiat world where it's "safe".

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

That's your response? Because in crypto it's OK to screw your shareholders because it is " high risk " investing?

If this is the prevailing rational, no wonder there are so many crypto scams.  The same people can rip you off not just once but multiple times and you just keep on buying new investments from the same people... Never holding them accountable, just praying they find the holy grail (they did find the holy grail, sucker's with money).

I bought more bitshares today. You think that I am a sucker. I get that. Now, are you just going to hang around here telling me that over and over again as I increase my holdings? What's the point?

No we don't think you're a sucker for buying BTS, but others might...

Proposals are based in part on what resources are available to work on them.
Resources are hired based on the availability of stable funding.
A constant battle over who controls the funding light switch means no one dares hire against any line item.
So the resources remain allocated elsewhere.

Voting is overrated.  I wouldn't want to ride on an aircraft controlled by voting passengers.
Give me a benevolent whale any day.

[onceuponatime]

That's why they want everyone to move over to steem... So the Larimer Lemmings can downvote anyone who doubts the messiah.

@BitcoinJesus2.O

The filtering of spam is accomplished at steemit.com by the community's downvotes, not a moderator's.

Wasn't the site updated and now if just one downvote is cast (before 2 upvotes I believe) the set of voting icons disappears from the main page, the post is marked as read and the summary is removed from displaying or am I wrong?  I could be wrong, but that is just what appears to happen now. The only way you can upvote those post is to come across one and click to view it. But it appears users are being discouraged from viewing them by a single downvote. That's not exactly a "community's downvotes". I get why it's being done, but I don't agree with the current implementation. Someone can sick the bot on them (like "someone" has the gardenlady, but in a good way) and as soon as they post they are downvoted into most never looking at the post because they will assume it's spam or not worthwhile.

You may be right. If so, I didn't  know that. I hope someone more knowledgeable will post here to clarify this.

[Tuck Fheman]

That's why they want everyone to move over to steem... So the Larimer Lemmings can downvote anyone who doubts the messiah.

@BitcoinJesus2.O

The filtering of spam is accomplished at steemit.com by the community's downvotes, not a moderator's.

Wasn't the site updated and now if just one downvote is cast (before 2 upvotes I believe) the set of voting icons disappears from the main page, the post is marked as read and the summary is removed from displaying or am I wrong?  I could be wrong, but that is just what appears to happen now. The only way you can upvote those post is to come across one and click to view it. But it appears users are being discouraged from viewing them by a single downvote. That's not exactly a "community's downvotes". I get why it's being done, but I don't agree with the current implementation. Someone can sick the bot on them (like "someone" has the gardenlady, but in a good way) and as soon as they post they are downvoted into most never looking at the post because they will assume it's spam or not worthwhile.

[onceuponatime]

And most importantly...they already have (as one of the first orders of business) the bots to auto vote up or down posts by accounts they like/dislike...one of the parameters is even to do such burial in 0 seconds after a post. It is a no brainer that such automation on account and not posts voting, is so simple and easy to 'improve' to next include new accounts to be destroyed for simply voting 'for' a post by an account on the blacklist of the vote-masters...  Now each poster not only should not express a different opinion, but should restrain from even voting for something that the masters might not like, for the fear of being auto-blacklisted.
censorship automation nice steaming touch to the already existing total control  monopoly...

Why did you know so much, Tony? When you started to hate sth, you look into it to find more reasons to amplify the hate? Why not save some time & just ignore it?

Trolls can't ignore, they have to feed on something or else wither and die.

What I find hilarious is whenever we bring up actual real issues about the larimers and their massive screwing  and probably illegal actions against their shareholders (of various instruments), we get labeled as trolls.  No rebuttals, just dumb ass one liners and pictures of caves and bridges.

Please someone tell me how the larimers have not screwed their shareholders in every investment vehicle they have ever sold.  You may think your on the rocketship with steem, but why would you think it would end up any different from any other investment they sold to you?

Why not hold then accountable for at least one project instead of following them blindly until you're bankrupt?

This is all experimental high risk stuff. What I find amazing is how people complain about all rules and regulations of the fiat world and then the minute something doesn't go the way they expect, they want to drag all that stuff to crypto. If you want rules and regulations, why he'll are you messing with crypto??? Stay in the fiat world where it's "safe".

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

That's your response? Because in crypto it's OK to screw your shareholders because it is " high risk " investing?

If this is the prevailing rational, no wonder there are so many crypto scams.  The same people can rip you off not just once but multiple times and you just keep on buying new investments from the same people... Never holding them accountable, just praying they find the holy grail (they did find the holy grail, sucker's with money).

I bought more bitshares today. You think that I am a sucker. I get that. Now, are you just going to hang around here telling me that over and over again as I increase my holdings? What's the point?

[lil_jay890]

And most importantly...they already have (as one of the first orders of business) the bots to auto vote up or down posts by accounts they like/dislike...one of the parameters is even to do such burial in 0 seconds after a post. It is a no brainer that such automation on account and not posts voting, is so simple and easy to 'improve' to next include new accounts to be destroyed for simply voting 'for' a post by an account on the blacklist of the vote-masters...  Now each poster not only should not express a different opinion, but should restrain from even voting for something that the masters might not like, for the fear of being auto-blacklisted.
censorship automation nice steaming touch to the already existing total control  monopoly...

Why did you know so much, Tony? When you started to hate sth, you look into it to find more reasons to amplify the hate? Why not save some time & just ignore it?

Trolls can't ignore, they have to feed on something or else wither and die.

What I find hilarious is whenever we bring up actual real issues about the larimers and their massive screwing  and probably illegal actions against their shareholders (of various instruments), we get labeled as trolls.  No rebuttals, just dumb ass one liners and pictures of caves and bridges.

Please someone tell me how the larimers have not screwed their shareholders in every investment vehicle they have ever sold.  You may think your on the rocketship with steem, but why would you think it would end up any different from any other investment they sold to you?

Why not hold then accountable for at least one project instead of following them blindly until you're bankrupt?

This is all experimental high risk stuff. What I find amazing is how people complain about all rules and regulations of the fiat world and then the minute something doesn't go the way they expect, they want to drag all that stuff to crypto. If you want rules and regulations, why he'll are you messing with crypto??? Stay in the fiat world where it's "safe".

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

That's your response? Because in crypto it's OK to screw your shareholders because it is " high risk " investing?

If this is the prevailing rational, no wonder there are so many crypto scams.  The same people can rip you off not just once but multiple times and you just keep on buying new investments from the same people... Never holding them accountable, just praying they find the holy grail (they did find the holy grail, sucker's with money).

[Pheonike]

And most importantly...they already have (as one of the first orders of business) the bots to auto vote up or down posts by accounts they like/dislike...one of the parameters is even to do such burial in 0 seconds after a post. It is a no brainer that such automation on account and not posts voting, is so simple and easy to 'improve' to next include new accounts to be destroyed for simply voting 'for' a post by an account on the blacklist of the vote-masters...  Now each poster not only should not express a different opinion, but should restrain from even voting for something that the masters might not like, for the fear of being auto-blacklisted.
censorship automation nice steaming touch to the already existing total control  monopoly...

Why did you know so much, Tony? When you started to hate sth, you look into it to find more reasons to amplify the hate? Why not save some time & just ignore it?

Trolls can't ignore, they have to feed on something or else wither and die.

What I find hilarious is whenever we bring up actual real issues about the larimers and their massive screwing  and probably illegal actions against their shareholders (of various instruments), we get labeled as trolls.  No rebuttals, just dumb ass one liners and pictures of caves and bridges.

Please someone tell me how the larimers have not screwed their shareholders in every investment vehicle they have ever sold.  You may think your on the rocketship with steem, but why would you think it would end up any different from any other investment they sold to you?

Why not hold then accountable for at least one project instead of following them blindly until you're bankrupt?

This is all experimental high risk stuff. What I find amazing is how people complain about all rules and regulations of the fiat world and then the minute something doesn't go the way they expect, they want to drag all that stuff to crypto. If you want rules and regulations, why he'll are you messing with crypto??? Stay in the fiat world where it's "safe".

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[lil_jay890]

And most importantly...they already have (as one of the first orders of business) the bots to auto vote up or down posts by accounts they like/dislike...one of the parameters is even to do such burial in 0 seconds after a post. It is a no brainer that such automation on account and not posts voting, is so simple and easy to 'improve' to next include new accounts to be destroyed for simply voting 'for' a post by an account on the blacklist of the vote-masters...  Now each poster not only should not express a different opinion, but should restrain from even voting for something that the masters might not like, for the fear of being auto-blacklisted.
censorship automation nice steaming touch to the already existing total control  monopoly...

Why did you know so much, Tony? When you started to hate sth, you look into it to find more reasons to amplify the hate? Why not save some time & just ignore it?

Trolls can't ignore, they have to feed on something or else wither and die.

What I find hilarious is whenever we bring up actual real issues about the larimers and their massive screwing  and probably illegal actions against their shareholders (of various instruments), we get labeled as trolls.  No rebuttals, just dumb ass one liners and pictures of caves and bridges.

Please someone tell me how the larimers have not screwed their shareholders in every investment vehicle they have ever sold.  You may think your on the rocketship with steem, but why would you think it would end up any different from any other investment they sold to you?

Why not hold then accountable for at least one project instead of following them blindly until you're bankrupt?

[nomoreheroes7]

And most importantly...they already have (as one of the first orders of business) the bots to auto vote up or down posts by accounts they like/dislike...one of the parameters is even to do such burial in 0 seconds after a post. It is a no brainer that such automation on account and not posts voting, is so simple and easy to 'improve' to next include new accounts to be destroyed for simply voting 'for' a post by an account on the blacklist of the vote-masters...  Now each poster not only should not express a different opinion, but should restrain from even voting for something that the masters might not like, for the fear of being auto-blacklisted.
censorship automation nice steaming touch to the already existing total control  monopoly...

Why did you know so much, Tony? When you started to hate sth, you look into it to find more reasons to amplify the hate? Why not save some time & just ignore it?

Trolls can't ignore, they have to feed on something or else wither and die.

Lol @ tonyk being called a troll...just wow.

[Pheonike]

And most importantly...they already have (as one of the first orders of business) the bots to auto vote up or down posts by accounts they like/dislike...one of the parameters is even to do such burial in 0 seconds after a post. It is a no brainer that such automation on account and not posts voting, is so simple and easy to 'improve' to next include new accounts to be destroyed for simply voting 'for' a post by an account on the blacklist of the vote-masters...  Now each poster not only should not express a different opinion, but should restrain from even voting for something that the masters might not like, for the fear of being auto-blacklisted.
censorship automation nice steaming touch to the already existing total control  monopoly...

Why did you know so much, Tony? When you started to hate sth, you look into it to find more reasons to amplify the hate? Why not save some time & just ignore it?

Trolls can't ignore, they have to feed on something or else wither and die.

[chryspano]

It seems the noise awoke the whole family!

You guys definetly need to move to a biger more spacious Cave! 

May I recomend this one?
You can also find an excelent bridge nearby!
Here are some photos, no need to thank me! 

[abit]

And most importantly...they already have (as one of the first orders of business) the bots to auto vote up or down posts by accounts they like/dislike...one of the parameters is even to do such burial in 0 seconds after a post. It is a no brainer that such automation on account and not posts voting, is so simple and easy to 'improve' to next include new accounts to be destroyed for simply voting 'for' a post by an account on the blacklist of the vote-masters...  Now each poster not only should not express a different opinion, but should restrain from even voting for something that the masters might not like, for the fear of being auto-blacklisted.
censorship automation nice steaming touch to the already existing total control  monopoly...

Why did you know so much, Tony? When you started to hate sth, you look into it to find more reasons to amplify the hate? Why not save some time & just ignore it?

[tonyk]

I for one miss seeing newmine's posts. He may have been a bit over the top, but hell there's been at least some truth to a lot of what he's said over time. BitShares needs its critics so it can know what it's doing wrong and find ways to fix the problem through open discussion. But I see everyone's ready to just grab a pitchfork around here and demand silence from any who dare speak ill of the almighty BTS.

 

That's why they want everyone to move over to steem... So the Larimer Lemmings can downvote anyone who doubts the messiah.

You haven't thought this through (I know it hurts, but brains need exercise too).

Any post on this Forum could be banished, without a vote, at the whim of a moderator. And many of the moderators are actually the very people that you seem to be accusing of desiring censorship of contrary opinion.

Moderators can, and do, delete spam and phising posts, but seem to tolerate a great deal of rude and obnoxious behavior and trolling.  The filtering of spam is accomplished at steemit.com by the community's downvotes, not a moderator's. Why do you think that there is going to be the inevitability of censorship of contrary opinion there if it is not happening here?

But, most importantly, positive effort, planning and work on behalf of BitShares can be and is being rewarded at steemit.com but definitely not here.

No, you seem to have not thought it through (or decided to not do so, more likely)... the so described by you 'community' is 75% voting power of BM and co.
More importantly censorship is much easier on STEEM...here it is much more ineffective...if they delete my post (be it a rude, obnoxious one or simply spelling the truth the blind followers just do not want to hear) here I can post 3 new ones complaining about it free of charge... There I have to pay to post more. ). There you pay the master-clique  first, so they have the pleasure to berry your post at a whim (and even bury the posts of anyone who dare upvote your posts [more on that next])

And most importantly...they already have (as one of the first orders of business) the bots to auto vote up or down posts by accounts they like/dislike...one of the parameters is even to do such burial in 0 seconds after a post. It is a no brainer that such automation on account and not posts voting, is so simple and easy to 'improve' to next include new accounts to be destroyed for simply voting 'for' a post by an account on the blacklist of the vote-masters...  Now each poster not only should not express a different opinion, but should restrain from even voting for something that the masters might not like, for the fear of being auto-blacklisted.
censorship automation nice steaming touch to the already existing total control  monopoly...

[lil_jay890]

People fiercely attack anyone who says anything that goes against their financial bias.

Fixed that for you. Welcome to planet Earth.

ty

[Chronos]

People fiercely attack anyone who says anything that goes against their financial bias.

Fixed that for you. Welcome to planet Earth.

[lil_jay890]

I for one miss seeing newmine's posts. He may have been a bit over the top, but hell there's been at least some truth to a lot of what he's said over time. BitShares needs its critics so it can know what it's doing wrong and find ways to fix the problem through open discussion. But I see everyone's ready to just grab a pitchfork around here and demand silence from any who dare speak ill of the almighty BTS.

 

That's why they want everyone to move over to steem... So the Larimer Lemmings can downvote anyone who doubts the messiah.

You haven't thought this through (I know it hurts, but brains need exercise too).

Any post on this Forum could be banished, without a vote, at the whim of a moderator. And many of the moderators are actually the very people that you seem to be accusing of desiring censorship of contrary opinion.

Moderators can, and do, delete spam and phising posts, but seem to tolerate a great deal of rude and obnoxious behavior and trolling.  The filtering of spam is accomplished at steemit.com by the community's downvotes, not a moderator's. Why do you think that there is going to be the inevitability of censorship of contrary opinion there if it is not happening here?

But, most importantly, positive effort, planning and work on behalf of BitShares can be and is being rewarded at steemit.com but definitely not here.

Yeah it's being rewarded in paper steem dollar profits.  Let me know when you can actually cash that out.  I have a feeling people are going to be disappointed when they realize that their upvotes and "positive" effort and planning internet forum posts don't equate into the thousands of dollars they were promised.

But whatever... Let the lemmings come and tell me how wrong I am and steem will work flawlessly and Dan has finally found the formula that never allows a coins market cap to go down.

If you want to see censoring of contrary opinion via communities go over to a yahoo finance board and look at the upvotes or downvotes on a stock... People downvote anyone who says anything that goes against their financial bias. 

[onceuponatime]

I for one miss seeing newmine's posts. He may have been a bit over the top, but hell there's been at least some truth to a lot of what he's said over time. BitShares needs its critics so it can know what it's doing wrong and find ways to fix the problem through open discussion. But I see everyone's ready to just grab a pitchfork around here and demand silence from any who dare speak ill of the almighty BTS.

 

That's why they want everyone to move over to steem... So the Larimer Lemmings can downvote anyone who doubts the messiah.

You haven't thought this through (I know it hurts, but brains need exercise too).

Any post on this Forum could be banished, without a vote, at the whim of a moderator. And many of the moderators are actually the very people that you seem to be accusing of desiring censorship of contrary opinion.

Moderators can, and do, delete spam and phising posts, but seem to tolerate a great deal of rude and obnoxious behavior and trolling.  The filtering of spam is accomplished at steemit.com by the community's downvotes, not a moderator's. Why do you think that there is going to be the inevitability of censorship of contrary opinion there if it is not happening here?

But, most importantly, positive effort, planning and work on behalf of BitShares can be and is being rewarded at steemit.com but definitely not here.

[lil_jay890]

I for one miss seeing newmine's posts. He may have been a bit over the top, but hell there's been at least some truth to a lot of what he's said over time. BitShares needs its critics so it can know what it's doing wrong and find ways to fix the problem through open discussion. But I see everyone's ready to just grab a pitchfork around here and demand silence from any who dare speak ill of the almighty BTS.

 

That's why they want everyone to move over to steem... So the Larimer Lemmings can downvote anyone who doubts the messiah.

[nomoreheroes7]

I for one miss seeing newmine's posts. He may have been a bit over the top, but hell there's been at least some truth to a lot of what he's said over time. BitShares needs its critics so it can know what it's doing wrong and find ways to fix the problem through open discussion. But I see everyone's ready to just grab a pitchfork around here and demand silence from any who dare speak ill of the almighty BTS.

 

[Vizzini]

Did the news arive late in your cave Troll?

And the proctologist calls for his pick and shovel. When all of NM's posts can be summarized with one picture of a hole, maybe it's a good thing he hasn't spent more time on here.

[mint chocolate chip]

BM now explores free market solutions to secure Life, Liberty and Property for insiders and devs.

tonyk's breakdown is spot on:

-eSTEEM - bm has so much self-esteem, so much so it justified something as ridiculous as issuing 75% of the coins to himself and even adding 9x more coins for each coin someone dared to 'earn'...  full name: "BM's self eSTEEM."

-of course steem was developed in STEALTH of bts holders... I mean while MasterByte supposedly was working on STEALTH....
btw, during the same period, in STEALTH were also sold tens of millions of BTS by the core team...while the poor common bts holders believed something improving bts was being developed...

-and bm has the honesty to call himself reverseflash (you know how one flashes the toilet? The reverse flash is the opposite action) while working in STEALTH to satisfy and fairly pay himself in accordance with his self-eSTEEM.... the bts holders were reversed-flashed more or less.

[chryspano]

Did the news arive late in your cave Troll?



I'm sorry newmine but I could't resist 

Please continue and ignore me. 

[Chronos]

have been promised

I wouldn't put too much weight on such promises. Of course, I am speaking to the great NewMine, a veteran of realistic expectations. 

[xeroc]

Steem is based on graphene, the same sources as BitShares, and does not compete with BitShares directly (only for the developer time)
Many of the improments made in Steem have been promised to be migrated over to BitShares once final.

[btswildpig]

yes it get cut .

[NewMine]

Just saw Steem on coinmarketcap and saw the authors of the white paper are BTS devs.  Are they no longer developing for BTS?  Did their dilution payments get cut?