Author Topic: Witnesses: Can you please add 'GRIDCOIN' to your price feed please?  (Read 11019 times)

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Offline R

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What is the usecase for Gridcoin MPA? If nobody is trading the real thing, why would they want to trade MPA?
We're rewarding ~1800 users, we've got 7000 in our team, there are 400k active BOINC users and 4 million registered BOINC users in total. All it would require to jump from 7000 to 400k users is removal of the team requirement in the future: https://steemit.com/gridcoin/@cm-steem/gridcoin-s-mandatory-team-requirement-should-it-stay-or-should-it-go

I'm investigating extending project rain (tipping thousands of users based on their BOINC computation) to BTS UIA, so there's the potential for driving significant quantities of new users to the Bitshares platform. https://steemit.com/steem/@cm-steem/gauging-interest-would-you-be-interested-being-able-to-tip-boinc-users-your-crypto-asset-of-choice

Sure, Gridcoin might currently have a low market cap and/or trading volume, but that's not going to be the case forever & the Bitshares platform has much to offer the Gridcoin community even if liquidity will be a problem in the short term.

Offline Samupaha

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What is the usecase for Gridcoin MPA? If nobody is trading the real thing, why would they want to trade MPA?

Offline R

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I'm not talking about settlement.

Suppose that the feed price is derived from external exchanges, that the total trade volume on these exchanges is low (as seems to be the case right now).
Suppose that external exchanges have not only low volume but also little liquidity and possibly a high spread (I haven't checked this). That means it is possible to move the price by a large amount with only little trade volume.

* An attacker with sufficient BTC in their pockets would try to buy up as many bitGRC on OpenLedger as he can get, at a price slightly above the feed. This may take a couple of days.
* Immediately before the attack, the attacker examines the short positions and their respective collateral. For each short position, he computes the black swan price.
* To execute the attack, the attacker positions a sell order for each short near the black swan price.
* Then he starts "manipulating" the price on the external exchanges.
* As the price of GRC goes up and takes the feed with it, the short positions will be margin called and will buy into the existing sell orders, consuming (almost) their entire collateral.

The attack is profitable if the cost for price manipulation is low in comparison to the value of the bitGRC the attacker has amassed.

The price manipulation attack has been considered before. AFAIR bm's response was that the attacker will end up with BTS that's worth less than what the attack costs. This argument is valid when you try to manipulate the price of BTS against FIAT, or against a high-volume currency like BTC. However, I think with a low-volume asset the attack can be profitable, in particular because the price of BTS itself is not damaged by the attack.
Ok, so only those shorting the Gridcoin MPA would potentially be affected, not those holding the MPA (because they'd be saved by forced settlement) ?

What if witnesses tracked market volume? If it's under a certain volume, shorting wouldn't be allowed/enabled for said MPA within the BTS DEX?

If such an idea is out of the question, then I guess it's a risk that those shorting the MPA would have to take into account?

Hopefully Gridcoin won't stay a low volume asset forever, hah! :P

Offline pc

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I'm not talking about settlement.

Suppose that the feed price is derived from external exchanges, that the total trade volume on these exchanges is low (as seems to be the case right now).
Suppose that external exchanges have not only low volume but also little liquidity and possibly a high spread (I haven't checked this). That means it is possible to move the price by a large amount with only little trade volume.

* An attacker with sufficient BTC in their pockets would try to buy up as many bitGRC on OpenLedger as he can get, at a price slightly above the feed. This may take a couple of days.
* Immediately before the attack, the attacker examines the short positions and their respective collateral. For each short position, he computes the black swan price.
* To execute the attack, the attacker positions a sell order for each short near the black swan price.
* Then he starts "manipulating" the price on the external exchanges.
* As the price of GRC goes up and takes the feed with it, the short positions will be margin called and will buy into the existing sell orders, consuming (almost) their entire collateral.

The attack is profitable if the cost for price manipulation is low in comparison to the value of the bitGRC the attacker has amassed.

The price manipulation attack has been considered before. AFAIR bm's response was that the attacker will end up with BTS that's worth less than what the attack costs. This argument is valid when you try to manipulate the price of BTS against FIAT, or against a high-volume currency like BTC. However, I think with a low-volume asset the attack can be profitable, in particular because the price of BTS itself is not damaged by the attack.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de

Offline R

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Guys,

this is dangerous. CMC shows the total trade volume of GRC in the last 24 hours to be less than 3k USD. An attacker who is long in bitGRC can easily steal collateral by manipulating the external trade price.
Could this be negated by changing the "Max force settle vol" and "Force settlement offset" variables? Could you elaborate on your concerns? The bitshares documentation doesn't cover any of this.

Offline pc

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Guys,

this is dangerous. CMC shows the total trade volume of GRC in the last 24 hours to be less than 3k USD. An attacker who is long in bitGRC can easily steal collateral by manipulating the external trade price.
Bitcoin - Perspektive oder Risiko? ISBN 978-3-8442-6568-2 http://bitcoin.quisquis.de


Offline R

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Xeroc has integrated 'GRIDCOIN' into his python price feed scripts: https://steemit.com/graphene/@xeroc/changelog-python-graphenelib-0-4-4

Could some witnesses please provide feeds for gridcoin?

https://steemit.com/gridcoin/@cm-steem/gridcoin-market-pegged-asset-soon-to-go-live-on-the-bitshares-dex

Offline R

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Hey,

I've been trying to get the 'GRIDCOIN' MPA (https://www.gridcoin.us) added to the python price feed script: https://github.com/grctest/python-graphenelib/blob/master/scripts/pricefeeds/config-example.py

http://cryptofresh.com/a/GRIDCOIN
https://bitshares.openledger.info/#/asset/GRIDCOIN

https://www.poloniex.com/exchange#btc_grc
https://c-cex.com/?lpm=btc&p=grc-btc
https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-GRC

I've been unable to test the changes, I've run into several issues and am currently stuck at: http://pastebin.com/WTCGNCmw

Can some witnesses please check out the above? Unfortunately the script doesn't support c-cex, is 2 feed sources sufficient?

https://github.com/xeroc/python-graphenelib/pull/44

Thanks for your time.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2016, 07:01:20 pm by crypto123 »