The case for bitGOLD and bitSILVER

[karnal]

And to stay on topic, same reasoning for bitMetals, there are no storage fees, no demurrage (like DGX), and you get to keep the purchasing power of gold and silver.

This is, I feel, something we should push forward.

Make it become a thing that online merchants take bitGold and bitSilver.

We have the software now, all that's left is beginning making some calls and sending some emails.

Also. STEALTH STEALTH STEALTH. I cannot understate how essential it is.

And then add liquidity to bitSilver:bitFiatWhichOurMerchantsUseMoreOftenProbablyUSD so they can unload silver for USD as they please.
(and bitSilver:bitBTC)


We're close. I really think we are.

[karnal]

Having this liquidity questions solved would enable so much.

With bitCAD, bitNZD, bitAUS, bitSEK, bitNOK and bitZAR we could begin catering to those domestic markets.

For capturing some of the forex market, providing liquidity in a few of the most common trading pairs (no idea what they are nowdays, should be easy to find out) would, I'm sure, bring a lot of investors in .. why pay $7 for trade when you can pay $.02 ?

Here's a thought: We should identify the major potential markets outside of EUR/USD/CNY (imo those three are the really obvious ones), and start writing material in the target languages about bitshares.

For getting funds into the Bitshares ecosystem, for now Bitcoin is a good choice .. ultimately I dream about a world-wide network of fiat onramps, so that someone from New Zealand doesn't have to send fiat anywhere else just to get started in the ecosystem.

At the moment it is very acceptable to do this through bitcoin, which is much better established.

To cut one conversion step for what will likely be a vaguely clueless newcomer without much crypto experience, we could aim liquidity efforts at BitBTC:bitFIAT markets instead of BTS:bitFIAT.

Think about it .. if we have liquidity, the backing learning material and the marketing, we can capture at least some of the forex market.

I know and have emailed in the past some big names in the forex/stocks/investing online investor community, could even perhaps get bitshares featured in a couple of podcasts related to investing (and that have nothing to do with crypto)

Take a look here.. these are pretty standard fees.. https://www.strateo.ch/en/our-fees/

Bitshares can do a lot better.

For this we need: 1. Liquidity 2. STEALTH and 3. Stop-loss and Stop-profit (VERY IMPORTANT!)

[Chuckone]

Are there any liquidity bots that a non-technical user like myself could run? Doesn't even need to make a profit, just not lose value.

And by non-technical I mean type in the the amount of BTS, choose the market and click go.

Click stop and the BTS go back into your account.

If providing liquidity was this simple I'll bet a lot of folks, including myself, would provide a lot of liquidity to bootstap the markets.

The problem is, it is not that simple. And risk of loss is very high in volatile markets.

If there was a liquidity pool that interested parties could throw funds into, then non-technical people could easily participate.  As for market risk, this would be mitigated if we offered liquidity rewards that the pool (or any liquidity provider for that matter) could earn.  Such risk could be further mitigated (and therefore more funds attracted to participate in the pool) if we used some of the burn worker funds to pay interest to anyone participating in the pool.  We should really try something like this.  Now is the time.

I would gladly throw some of my funds into market making pools for bitUSD, bitGold and bitSilver. But who is experienced enough to manage such pools? It seems like somebody is doing a good job making bitCNY:BTS liquidity. Can those guys do the same for other markets?

I would be in too. I have no plan of selling any BTS for a while, so helping to bootstrap liquidity is definitely something I would be interested into. It would be nice to see as much action on the bitUSD market as there is currently on the bitCNY market.

[yvv]

Are there any liquidity bots that a non-technical user like myself could run? Doesn't even need to make a profit, just not lose value.

And by non-technical I mean type in the the amount of BTS, choose the market and click go.

Click stop and the BTS go back into your account.

If providing liquidity was this simple I'll bet a lot of folks, including myself, would provide a lot of liquidity to bootstap the markets.

The problem is, it is not that simple. And risk of loss is very high in volatile markets.

If there was a liquidity pool that interested parties could throw funds into, then non-technical people could easily participate.  As for market risk, this would be mitigated if we offered liquidity rewards that the pool (or any liquidity provider for that matter) could earn.  Such risk could be further mitigated (and therefore more funds attracted to participate in the pool) if we used some of the burn worker funds to pay interest to anyone participating in the pool.  We should really try something like this.  Now is the time.

I would gladly throw some of my funds into market making pools for bitUSD, bitGold and bitSilver. But who is experienced enough to manage such pools? It seems like somebody is doing a good job making bitCNY:BTS liquidity. Can those guys do the same for other markets?

[tbone]

Are there any liquidity bots that a non-technical user like myself could run? Doesn't even need to make a profit, just not lose value.

And by non-technical I mean type in the the amount of BTS, choose the market and click go.

Click stop and the BTS go back into your account.

If providing liquidity was this simple I'll bet a lot of folks, including myself, would provide a lot of liquidity to bootstap the markets.

The problem is, it is not that simple. And risk of loss is very high in volatile markets.

If there was a liquidity pool that interested parties could throw funds into, then non-technical people could easily participate.  As for market risk, this would be mitigated if we offered liquidity rewards that the pool (or any liquidity provider for that matter) could earn.  Such risk could be further mitigated (and therefore more funds attracted to participate in the pool) if we used some of the burn worker funds to pay interest to anyone participating in the pool.  We should really try something like this.  Now is the time.

[yvv]

Are there any liquidity bots that a non-technical user like myself could run? Doesn't even need to make a profit, just not lose value.

And by non-technical I mean type in the the amount of BTS, choose the market and click go.

Click stop and the BTS go back into your account.

If providing liquidity was this simple I'll bet a lot of folks, including myself, would provide a lot of liquidity to bootstap the markets.

The problem is, it is not that simple. And risk of loss is very high in volatile markets.

[Geneko]

I totally agree...I might try that one too. ;D

[oldman]

Are there any liquidity bots that a non-technical user like myself could run? Doesn't even need to make a profit, just not lose value.

And by non-technical I mean type in the the amount of BTS, choose the market and click go.

Click stop and the BTS go back into your account.

If providing liquidity was this simple I'll bet a lot of folks, including myself, would provide a lot of liquidity to bootstap the markets.

[karnal]

^^ Regarding the exchange integration, I'd say there's a time component to it (though it shouldn't be rushed ahead of liquidity, at the very least), as we'll likely become established as the go-to token for metals if we get listed before DGX.

[karnal]

Lets try again..


First of all, glad to see the post has generated interest and discussion amongst members. It seems I'm not the only one sensing a good opportunity here.

I'd like to propose a possible path forward for this.

First of, liquidity is absolutely essential. That should go without saying, so lets just assume (I know, big assumption) that's taken care of. What comes next?


It seems to me that we need to pen a bunch of articles in the right places (I can take a stab at doing the research and the writing), because few people outsite of the ecosystem are even aware of bitGOLD and bitSILVER.

Forum activity at bitcointalk (at the right time, and slowly dropping links to the articles we will have written in the step above over time) would also be welcomed.

After that, we can do is get some of our radio-voice guys interviewed at podcasts like Lets talk Bitcoin, The Ether Review, Epicenter Bitcoin, and of course, our own Beyond Bitcoin.

In the Bitshares-alien podcasts, we can spin it in such a way to make it attractive to the average crypto user, who wants some exposure to gold/silver price, either as a safe haven asset for the medium/long term, or simply to store profits between trades. All the advantages (and disadvantages!) outlined in the original post should be brought up and discussed.

By the way, unless it has changed, DGX has demurrage fees built in (to pay for the actual storage), which can be seen as an advantage for our bitMetals as well.


Now then, at that point we have:
  - Liquidity (easiest to begin with might be OPEN.BTC/bit{GOLD,SILVER} ? open to suggestions..)
  - Articles in prominent places.
  - A troll-filled thread in bitcointalk (;D)
  - A couple of interviews in a few podcasts.

.. which should mean that new users are arriving to try it out. It's more or less at this point (ideally, a bit before  ;)) that we write some tutorials over at steemit, because apparently it's a common complaint that the bitshares wallet "is confusing".

We don't want new users to come look and leave in disgust, which is what will happen if there's no liquidity, and if there's not a clear-cut procedure for people to follow in the beginning. Once they have hundreds of $fiat worth in bitMetals, then they're not as likely to leave .. essentially, it's necessary to make a good first impression.


So at this point there's a buzz, there's new users, the markets are active, and it's time to go to the major exchanges to get BTC/bitMetals, ETH/bitMetals (see what I did there) and (in Poloniex) USDT/bitMetals (ditto) listed.

Add another round of tutorials about how to deposit/withdraw/buy/sell bitMetals in the major exchanges, and voila.


Maybe I missed a step or two, but what do you think?

[karnal]

Great, just lost a giant post thanks to cloudflare captcha ...

[Methodise]

I intend to have a crack at liquidity provision, including in bitMetals.

this bitCNY sounds a bit characterful tho. Not convinced the parameters should differ from those of bitUSD / bitEUR etc.

Makes life difficult for those of us trying to flood ALL OF THE MARKETS will liquidity.

[yvv]

Interesting, this does not stop people from force settling bitCNY.

[pc]

or not advertised a 1:1 redeemability via settlement.

How about stopping that ongoing advertisement? Then we'd at least no longer be scamming new investors.

[xeroc]

Yeah, banks always change fees and interest rates and fraction of reserve, and nobody says that bank account is not backed by anything. My understanding is that committee  moved bitCNY settlement because Chinese community wants a tighter peg to CNY. What is wrong with this?

One could argue that you robbed bitCNY longs 1% of their money.
Then on the other hand, they can still "sell" at the peg because the 1% only affects settlements.
Putting a higher fee for settlements wouldn't have resulted in the same setup because flat fees go to shareholders while the settlement offset of 1% goes to the shorter ..
It dicourages settlements and encourages shorting.

I can still see @pc's issue with "robbing" the longs 1% of their money and I wished we had started by a 1% offset in genesis block .. or not advertised a 1:1 redeemability via settlement.