[CLOSED] Service: Tradable Angelshares (tAGS)

[pariah99]

I wonder why these questions were not raised when AGS was introduced. I did not invent the wheel, I'm using it.

I mean, lets be fair, adding the ability to trade shares adds a huge layer of complexity; hence, it wasn't raised as an issue when AGS was introduced.  PTS has a built in mechanism for dealing with that, but AGS was not designed for it.

I think it's cool that you're offering the flexibility of trading AGS, but I don't think there's any way that you could provide the trade volume that blockchain-based currencies offer.  Therefore, AGS should still be viewed more as an illiquid long-term investment :/

[5chdn]

If you have been hacked, who will be responsible for the loss?

Earthquakes, fires, epidemics, amnesia…… There are many things to consider.I am sorry.

I am responsible for the loss and will compensate if nessesary. But it wont happen.

I think tAGS is a bit "opposite" to the philosophy of decentralized trading of bitshare (where AGS will go eventually).
It is centralized trading mechanism managed by one person.

Well, I agree, but tAGS is not more centralized than AGS are.

I wonder why these questions were not raised when AGS was introduced. I did not invent the wheel, I'm using it.

[ffwong]

I think this is fine and a perfect example of market forces at play.  tAGS is a valuable service that comes at the price of 'trust', you are trusting a 3rd party to manage a long-term investment.  If anything happens to him you will loose your keys.

Good work and I hope it meets a market demand.

I think tAGS is a bit "opposite" to the philosophy of decentralized trading of bitshare (where AGS will go eventually).
It is centralized trading mechanism managed by one person.
There is no difference to the existing centralized cryto stock or coin exchanges. btct and bitfunder (or weexchange) are very good experience to those who still believe in centralized exchange. 

[her0]

Why we can trust you?How?

It's donschoe! Why would you even ask that?
It's donshoe goddamnit.

You can't trust me, you should not trust anyone at all.

All I can is assure you as a Sr. Member and Board Moderator that I'm really doing that for you as a service and wont do evil. In addition, the administrators know my real life identity.

BTW, is the future DACs honoring tAGS created by you? Do you already have some under Planning?

Read the OP carefully. tAGS = AGS, so every future DAC which allocates AGS will also include tAGS. I'm buying and holding AGS for you.

The only advantage PTS has over AGS is liquidity. If it turns out that in future AGS will be liquid too, then I should be selling all my PTS now.

Changing schemes midway is no good. You invest in AGS knowing fully well that you can't sell of the stake.

Well, since I introduced tAGS PTS lost that advantage.

I think this is fine and a perfect example of market forces at play.  tAGS is a valuable service that comes at the price of 'trust', you are trusting a 3rd party to manage a long-term investment.  If anything happens to him you will loose your keys.

Good work and I hope it meets a market demand.

Exactly. Thanks for your comment.

I'm running this service for the long shot but my target audience are short- and midterm investors who rather play with the shares value than hope for the long term success of I3. This is a win/win situtation as I3 still sells shares and the short-term investors get another toy to play with.

If you have been hacked, who will be responsible for the loss?

Earthquakes, fires, epidemics, amnesia…… There are many things to consider.I am sorry.

[Giga]

Good service don, however i'm holding to my angelshares atleast for 1 year 

[5chdn]

No offense, but its really not the same thing as converting AGS into a currency like PTS. Good luck on your plan - it will be interesting to follow.

Not sure if I can follow you. Why not?
You can sell your tAGS for PTS right away.

[sumantso]

I think this is fine and a perfect example of market forces at play.  tAGS is a valuable service that comes at the price of 'trust', you are trusting a 3rd party to manage a long-term investment.  If anything happens to him you will loose your keys.

Good work and I hope it meets a market demand.

I am fine with tAGS. I was responding to the suggestion where it said after all the AGS has been distributed, they be made a currency like PTS by Invictus. I am against that. As long as Invictus doesn't toy with AGS, any third party scheme will not make AGS a true liquid commodity.

Well, since I introduced tAGS PTS lost that advantage.

No offense, but its really not the same thing as converting AGS into a currency like PTS. Good luck on your plan - it will be interesting to follow.

I doubt it will catch on, but then I also sold BTC at $150 (ouch!)

[5chdn]

Why we can trust you?How?

It's donschoe! Why would you even ask that?
It's donshoe goddamnit.

You can't trust me, you should not trust anyone at all.

All I can is assure you as a Sr. Member and Board Moderator that I'm really doing that for you as a service and wont do evil. In addition, the administrators know my real life identity.

BTW, is the future DACs honoring tAGS created by you? Do you already have some under Planning?

Read the OP carefully. tAGS = AGS, so every future DAC which allocates AGS will also include tAGS. I'm buying and holding AGS for you.

The only advantage PTS has over AGS is liquidity. If it turns out that in future AGS will be liquid too, then I should be selling all my PTS now.

Changing schemes midway is no good. You invest in AGS knowing fully well that you can't sell of the stake.

Well, since I introduced tAGS PTS lost that advantage.

I think this is fine and a perfect example of market forces at play.  tAGS is a valuable service that comes at the price of 'trust', you are trusting a 3rd party to manage a long-term investment.  If anything happens to him you will loose your keys.

Good work and I hope it meets a market demand.

Exactly. Thanks for your comment.

I'm running this service for the long shot but my target audience are short- and midterm investors who rather play with the shares value than hope for the long term success of I3. This is a win/win situtation as I3 still sells shares and the short-term investors get another toy to play with.

[HackFisher]

HackFisher:
AGS刚出来时，我想很多人都没有看清楚，但是50%-50%和BTC平分绝对是个错误的决定，现在进行到一半打破约定肯定不对，但是需要总结教训。

虽然我觉得这么说有点马后炮，但我觉得为了社区的利益，正确的做法应该是100%来自PTS，这样有人会投PTS吗，因为AGS的吸引力，肯定会有人投AGS。 另外，因为新的吸引力，会导致PTS的需求增加，导致PTS的价格上涨，BTC的资金也会进入PTS。并且，因为3I收到了AGS投资的PTS，随着价格上涨也完全可以拿到资金。

最终结果，很可能就是PTS价格上涨了一倍，接近1/3的PTS到了3I手中，PTS社区的利益都有保护。

现在的结果，就跟A股开闸IPO一样的效果类似。。资金被吸引进入了BTC投资通道。

Things happen happened, I don't meaning we should try to change the policy now, consensus should not break.  the market will adjust self soon and not a big problem for long term.

But true, that's my opinion. We should focus on the more important things now.

[cm8108@163.com]

HackFisher:
AGS刚出来时，我想很多人都没有看清楚，但是50%-50%和BTC平分绝对是个错误的决定，现在进行到一半打破约定肯定不对，但是需要总结教训。

虽然我觉得这么说有点马后炮，但我觉得为了社区的利益，正确的做法应该是100%来自PTS，这样有人会投PTS吗，因为AGS的吸引力，肯定会有人投AGS。 另外，因为新的吸引力，会导致PTS的需求增加，导致PTS的价格上涨，BTC的资金也会进入PTS。并且，因为3I收到了AGS投资的PTS，随着价格上涨也完全可以拿到资金。

最终结果，很可能就是PTS价格上涨了一倍，接近1/3的PTS到了3I手中，PTS社区的利益都有保护。

现在的结果，就跟A股开闸IPO一样的效果类似。。资金被吸引进入了BTC投资通道。

[bytemaster]

I think this is fine and a perfect example of market forces at play.  tAGS is a valuable service that comes at the price of 'trust', you are trusting a 3rd party to manage a long-term investment.  If anything happens to him you will loose your keys.

Good work and I hope it meets a market demand.

[HackFisher]

It is easy for 3I to have liquity with AGS 200 days later.

Just honor new AGS2.0 which honor AGS1.0 100%, to replace AGS1.0. In this case,  AGS2.0 is almost same with PTS, everybody can trade them on market.

But this is up to 3I to honor or not.

I thought you have similar ideas when I saw the title.

The only advantage PTS has over AGS is liquidity. If it turns out that in future AGS will be liquid too, then I should be selling all my PTS now.

Changing schemes midway is no good. You invest in AGS knowing fully well that you can't sell of the stake.

I'm not sure do PTS holders have necessary to have 3I clarify this possibility, It is obvious that AGS holders will welcome this, and original PTS holders will anti this.

I know it's not a good time to talk about this when PTS:BTC price are being drived down, but someone else will notice that.

[sumantso]

It is easy for 3I to have liquity with AGS 200 days later.

Just honor new AGS2.0 which honor AGS1.0 100%, to replace AGS1.0. In this case,  AGS2.0 is almost same with PTS, everybody can trade them on market.

But this is up to 3I to honor or not.

I thought you have similar ideas when I saw the title.

The only advantage PTS has over AGS is liquidity. If it turns out that in future AGS will be liquid too, then I should be selling all my PTS now.

Changing schemes midway is no good. You invest in AGS knowing fully well that you can't sell of the stake.

[HackFisher]

BTW, is the future DACs honoring tAGS created by you? Do you already have some under Planning?

[HackFisher]

It is easy for 3I to have liquity with AGS 200 days later.

Just honor new AGS2.0 which honor AGS1.0 100%, to replace AGS1.0. In this case,  AGS2.0 is almost same with PTS, everybody can trade them on market.

But this is up to 3I to honor or not.

I thought you have similar ideas when I saw the title.

[CryptoN8]

BAD idea,that's it!
Don't trust anybody but yourself.
Anybody could die tomorrow!

"On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero."

[logxing]

BAD idea,that's it!
Don't trust anybody but yourself.
Anybody could die tomorrow!

[luckybit]

Ok, let's sum up the feedback so far:

• amazing
• awesome
• brilliant

Btw, I'm serious about this. Is it too much text or why isn't anyone commenting?

TLDR; I manage your AGS - you can do whatever you want with them; Sell, trade, donate for charity. Any questions?

Why we can trust you?How?

It's donschoe! Why would you even ask that?
It's donshoe goddamnit.

[cm8108@163.com]

我们为什么相信你这个二道贩子的ags ，1,这个和我们直接买pts 又什么区别，2.我自己投ags ，凭什么相信你投！你跑了怎么办，3,如果3i这样做，不会考虑后果？4.如果想ags 值钱，就加快bts ，ags 的钱要用在刀刃上

[her0]

Ok, let's sum up the feedback so far:

• amazing
• awesome
• brilliant

Btw, I'm serious about this. Is it too much text or why isn't anyone commenting?

TLDR; I manage your AGS - you can do whatever you want with them; Sell, trade, donate for charity. Any questions?

Why we can trust you?How?

[phoenix]

This is definitely an amazing idea, but I'm actually in this for the long haul. I don't think that it's really necessary for me to have the ability to trade my angelshares. But for people that do want that kind of liquidity, this could be an incredible service

[5chdn]

Ok, let's sum up the feedback so far:

• amazing
• awesome
• brilliant

Btw, I'm serious about this. Is it too much text or why isn't anyone commenting?

TLDR; I manage your AGS - you can do whatever you want with them; Sell, trade, donate for charity. Any questions?

[luckybit]

donSchoe's tradable Angelshares (tAGS)

Wait, what?
Angelshares are by design not tradable. Many people rather keep their Protoshares because of the increased flexibility. This is not true anymore as of today: I'm introducing tradable Angelshares!


Why tradable Angelshares?
To allow more investors to approach Angelshares without being bond to I3, you can now purchase Angelshares from me and I will allow to trade these shares among the community. The benefit is clear, if you dont want to hold any AGS anymore, just find a buyer and sell your shares. I will keep track of the owner of all the shares.


How does that work?

• Claiming tradable Angelshares:

Send PTS to PtAGSL6YnPMuyGkoMHPnVg28nGEyryyRJM or BTC to 1tAGSAuZT4m3K6YFfa2Dqfve2WUxrGCXe. I will keep track of all incoming transactions on a daily basis and add them to the orderbook (link see below). Your final balance of tAGS will be calculated by the daily AGS/PTS or AGS/BTC rate multiplied by 0.9 (why see below).

• Selling tradable Angelshares:

You dont want to hold any tAGS anymore? Just create a post or thread on forum stating the amount of tAGS to be sold and the price. This post must be signed by the public key you used above to claim the tAGS initially. With the signature you prove the ownership of the tAGS. If you find a buyer, send me message or point me to the thread/post where the trade was agreed and again, create a signed message which includes the new owners public key. I will change the owner on the orderbook after successfull pubkey verification.

• Buying tradable Angelshares:

You can either claim tAGS by sending PTS/BTC to me (see above) or buy tAGS from other shareholders if they wish to sell (see above). Confirm potential sellers by public key verification and double check back with the orderbook (link below).


How to claim future DACs?
As I'm holding the Angelshares for you and organize the virtual tAGS, I'm also responsible for claiming and distributing the shares of future DACs. You will get your share by the value of the AGS you are holding. For each future DAC I will create a claiming thread where everyone holding tAGS creates a signed post which includes a public address of the DAC where I can send the shares to. PMs are fine too, as long as they are signed by the public key holding the tAGS.


What's the price?
10%. I'm selling tAGS 10% below the daily AGS/BTC and AGS/PTS rates. This might sound high at first glance but it's alot of work for me to organize the Orderbook on daily basis and to payout future DAC shares and Bitshares. If it's too much for you, you can still buy regular untradable AGS here: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1863.0


Book of Shareholders:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsHKRepEtagfdHZSM1FmMEhWTU5Ud1NDNUlqS1RlaVE&usp=sharing
PTS Transactions: https://coinplorer.com/PTS/Addresses/PtAGSL6YnPMuyGkoMHPnVg28nGEyryyRJM
BTC Transactions: https://blockchain.info/address/1tAGSAuZT4m3K6YFfa2Dqfve2WUxrGCXe


Fineprint:

• I'm not buying tradable Angelshares back. If you purchased some before and want to sell them, find a buyer first before contacting me.
• The rate AGS/PTS and AGS/BTC may vary on daily donation amount. The daily rate will be the final value at 0:00 UTC minus 10%.
• If a future DAC allocation is announced, only tAGS issued until 0:00 UTC at the day of the DAC launch will be accounted in the DAC shares distribution.
• I got a job and family, If I'm not able to update the rates for 1-2 days at midnight, don't panic. Your tAGS wont change or get lost as the rates are defined above and are fixed by definition. I will write a script to automate tAGS rates calculation soon to improve usability and transparency of this service. Until then, you will have to check coinplorer and google docs manually.

Did I mention, they are tradable? 

LMAO this idea is so brilliant it's bogus!

[Avant]

Awesome!

[cass]

wow amazing idea

[5chdn]

no transactions for 8 days. closed.