Author Topic: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)  (Read 16088 times)

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Offline isza

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2014, 10:06:08 pm »
P2P mining should be a standard.

Offline jh00

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2014, 07:59:00 pm »
One thing I have planned however, is to put up an clearly visible warning sign when the pool reaches at least 30-40% of the network. It will link to a page with detailed explanation of 51% attack and what affect it can have on the reputation and price of the coin. Everybody is then free to decide if he will risk it or leave the pool.

Well? It is 4 days later and I just logged in. I see no warning.  You have a news timeline right when you login. How hard would it be to throw a warning on that? Please do not procrastinate.
Did I say I'll do it immediately? No. I'd like to automate the process and make it clearly visible on every page, not put up a one-time-warning that nobody will ever read again when more news come along. The hashrate issue is not new and there is certainly no need to rush now. I'll add it when I find the time, maybe in a week, maybe later.

Offline bitminer9000

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2014, 01:02:44 pm »
One thing I have planned however, is to put up an clearly visible warning sign when the pool reaches at least 30-40% of the network. It will link to a page with detailed explanation of 51% attack and what affect it can have on the reputation and price of the coin. Everybody is then free to decide if he will risk it or leave the pool.

Well? It is 4 days later and I just logged in. I see no warning.  You have a news timeline right when you login. How hard would it be to throw a warning on that? Please do not procrastinate.

Offline luigi1111

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2014, 05:50:39 pm »
Oh no thanks. No longer interested in Protoshares as i lost faith and do not trust the devs anymore. If that is no alarm to anyone of you then im even more glad that im out before the big crash.

oh yea, above 70% of the Pts are mined by your pool and you and your compadres earn 5% of that at minimum, plus the share from your miner binaries. Bias much?

Do you really have any idea? The miner developers at ypool are not affiliated.

As for 5% seeming a bit high, how much power would the other pools have if ypool had the same fees? (as jh00 stated above)

Instead of being angry, why not just mine somewhere else?
Oh I forgot, you don't care about PTS anymore, since you're out.

Offline Isaaaaah

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2014, 10:01:15 am »
Oh no thanks. No longer interested in Protoshares as i lost faith and do not trust the devs anymore. If that is no alarm to anyone of you then im even more glad that im out before the big crash.

oh yea, above 70% of the Pts are mined by your pool and you and your compadres earn 5% of that at minimum, plus the share from your miner binaries. Bias much?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 10:05:37 am by Isaaaaah »
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Offline jh00

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2014, 01:56:18 am »
It's not that easy, really. How do you think it works? You gain access to the pool server in whatever way and then you just press the big red button? We don't even have standard wallets running and there is no source to be modified or anything. All the attacker will see are just some weird applications running with strange debug output, every intruder will be happy if he is even able to steal some coins.. but even that is not as trivial as you might think. Not on ypool at least.

Security through obscurity is no security.
Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't actually mean to say that obfuscating infrastructure is how our security works, I was just referring to the fact that it is unlikely to ever happen that someone explicitly hacks into a pool server only to pull off a 51% attack. It's not impossible, but very unlikely.

And now you say Oh its cool that people just use one pool... This will kill all other pools leaving PTS to 100% to ypool making it the bottleneck of a coin that was supposed to be a share of future Decentralized Autonomous Corporations, promoted by a company that screams Decentralization but actually does not give a fuck about it.
Why should it affect if people go to ypool or not? Unless bytemaster writes it in big red letters all over the place only about 1% of miners will care about the 51% issue.
If you consider it that important you should invest your energy in making people aware of the problem rather than shouting at bytemaster.

I think a potential solution to this would be to release a distributed pool alongside future DACs which have a built-in mechanism to reward extra shares if people choose to use the distributed pool.  i.e. say 2.5% of ALL mined blocks will be included in the reward for the distributed pool but not for any centralized pools; that way, people could start their own pools if they want, but the distributed pool would have be slightly more profitable and would give incentive for people to switch to it.
What stops a normal pool from disguising as the distributed pool to get the extra 2.5%? The main problem with most suggested solutions is that they require a centralized entity that controls what is real and what not.

Offline pariah99

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2014, 12:00:19 am »
It's one of the few shortcomings of the proof-of-work design.  Even though a solution exists in the bitcoin world (p2pool), people prefer to stay on the larger pools like gigahash to reduce their variance.

I think a potential solution to this would be to release a distributed pool alongside future DACs which have a built-in mechanism to reward extra shares if people choose to use the distributed pool.  i.e. say 2.5% of ALL mined blocks will be included in the reward for the distributed pool but not for any centralized pools; that way, people could start their own pools if they want, but the distributed pool would have be slightly more profitable and would give incentive for people to switch to it.

Also, proof-of-stake would solve this problem unless somebody accumulates a ridiculous amount of the currency.

Offline Isaaaaah

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #34 on: January 16, 2014, 11:40:01 pm »
Sounds like 100% secure...
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2014, 11:32:53 pm »
There is no problem with ypool having 70% of the hash power because they are very limited in what they can do with that hash power.  They can do a Denial of Service or they can attempt a double spend...

...

Consider this a case study in the reality that the 51% attack is not really a concern.

Are you completely out of your mind?
Yet here you are, lead developer of a company who wrote decentralization all over its awful designed websites. You fail to deliver on your own invention stating the day it should be released that Poland was too slow. And now you say Oh its cool that people just use one pool... This will kill all other pools leaving PTS to 100% to ypool making it the bottleneck of a coin that was supposed to be a share of future Decentralized Autonomous Corporations, promoted by a company that screams Decentralization but actually does not give a fuck about it.

Tomorrow i will get complaints by my neighbours for the loud noise emitted by this epic facepalm.

My point is that whether they can control 51 or 100% or not is irrelevant to the security of the coins.  If they start performing a DOS attack on the network then miners will leave and join a new pool.   But ypool has no financial incentive to attack and mining pools cannot perform double spend attacks because every block they work on is public record which means they cannot 'mine in secret' and thus there can be no alternative chains.

True decentralization is competition and lowering the barriers to entry. 

While I am a proponent of decentralization, I refuse to pretend that bitcoin, mining, etc are decentralized when they are not.  Instead I will focus on the true innovations that free us all:

"Irreversible, Unforgeable Global Ledgers"

If you have such a ledger that is distributed far and wide then it does not matter what any one bad actor does. 


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Offline Isaaaaah

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2014, 10:56:50 pm »
There is no problem with ypool having 70% of the hash power because they are very limited in what they can do with that hash power.  They can do a Denial of Service or they can attempt a double spend...

...

Consider this a case study in the reality that the 51% attack is not really a concern.

Are you completely out of your mind?
Yet here you are, lead developer of a company who wrote decentralization all over its awful designed websites. You fail to deliver on your own invention stating the day it should be released that Poland was too slow. And now you say Oh its cool that people just use one pool... This will kill all other pools leaving PTS to 100% to ypool making it the bottleneck of a coin that was supposed to be a share of future Decentralized Autonomous Corporations, promoted by a company that screams Decentralization but actually does not give a fuck about it.

Tomorrow i will get complaints by my neighbours for the loud noise emitted by this epic facepalm.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 10:59:19 pm by Isaaaaah »
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Offline reorder

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2014, 10:34:13 pm »
There is no problem with ypool having 70% of the hash power because they are very limited in what they can do with that hash power.  They can do a Denial of Service or they can attempt a double spend... however, they cannot get away with a double spend because they would have to steal their customers hash power which could not be done in secret. 

This reality is why we can eliminate mining.  If ypool simply signed every block the situation would be the same as it is today.  They could do no more harm nor could they perform a double spend attack.   

Consider this a case study in the reality that the 51% attack is not really a concern.
Or they can get hacked and someone else will double-spend all our money.

No one can double spend *YOUR* money except you.
Well, this is true, I rather meant mined blocks not distributed yet. Which is not possible too if the pool pays out matured blocks immediately, if it does.

Offline Isaaaaah

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2014, 10:30:57 pm »
Alright. All go for ypool then. Wont get any PTS anywhere else...
srsly wtf... Decentralization?
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2014, 10:03:44 pm »
There is no problem with ypool having 70% of the hash power because they are very limited in what they can do with that hash power.  They can do a Denial of Service or they can attempt a double spend... however, they cannot get away with a double spend because they would have to steal their customers hash power which could not be done in secret. 

This reality is why we can eliminate mining.  If ypool simply signed every block the situation would be the same as it is today.  They could do no more harm nor could they perform a double spend attack.   

Consider this a case study in the reality that the 51% attack is not really a concern.
Or they can get hacked and someone else will double-spend all our money.

No one can double spend *YOUR* money except you. 
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Offline reorder

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2014, 09:35:14 pm »
It's not that easy, really. How do you think it works? You gain access to the pool server in whatever way and then you just press the big red button? We don't even have standard wallets running and there is no source to be modified or anything. All the attacker will see are just some weird applications running with strange debug output, every intruder will be happy if he is even able to steal some coins.. but even that is not as trivial as you might think. Not on ypool at least.

Security through obscurity is no security.

Offline reorder

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2014, 09:15:23 pm »
There is no problem with ypool having 70% of the hash power because they are very limited in what they can do with that hash power.  They can do a Denial of Service or they can attempt a double spend... however, they cannot get away with a double spend because they would have to steal their customers hash power which could not be done in secret. 

This reality is why we can eliminate mining.  If ypool simply signed every block the situation would be the same as it is today.  They could do no more harm nor could they perform a double spend attack.   

Consider this a case study in the reality that the 51% attack is not really a concern.
Or they can get hacked and someone else will double-spend all our money.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2014, 08:03:18 pm »
There is no problem with ypool having 70% of the hash power because they are very limited in what they can do with that hash power.  They can do a Denial of Service or they can attempt a double spend... however, they cannot get away with a double spend because they would have to steal their customers hash power which could not be done in secret. 

This reality is why we can eliminate mining.  If ypool simply signed every block the situation would be the same as it is today.  They could do no more harm nor could they perform a double spend attack.   

Consider this a case study in the reality that the 51% attack is not really a concern.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline pvp1982

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2014, 07:57:49 pm »
Great post by jh00

Offline jh00

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2014, 06:11:38 pm »
a responsible pool would close down registrations at a hashrate of >30% of the network rate.

since they dont care for more than 2 months now i guess they are just greedy knocking of fees.

...

This sucks for ypool because it's not ypool's fault that everybody's flocking to it, but I guess it doesn't suck too much because they are raking in the fees.

i disagree, pariah, responsible pools close down registrations at a certain hashrate.
I can understand that people are worried about the 51% attack issue, but as you said it has been this way for months now and nobody cared. We did not attempt an attack and I honestly have to be insane to even try any kind of attack, as it will drive down the price and therefore also kill our earnings. It's like shooting myself in the foot. But yeah, I understand that trust alone is not good enough.

Actually there is a little anecdote about this. When we reached ~50% of the Primecoin network a few months ago I was really worried people would abandon the pool and flood the internet with anti-ypool messages. To counter this I added standalone Solomining support(see commit) to the most used ypool miner and announced it on our chat and in the peercointalk forum. Surprisingly, hardly anyone cared and the hashrate continued to go up. To this day I doubt the network hashrate by the solominer ever exceeded 2%.

I have discussed closing the pool when nearing 50% hashrate with several people already, but it will lock out only new miners. Nearly every Primecoin or Protoshares miner has an account on ypool already. It wouldn't really affect the hashrate. One thing I have planned however, is to put up an clearly visible warning sign when the pool reaches at least 30-40% of the network. It will link to a page with detailed explanation of 51% attack and what affect it can have on the reputation and price of the coin. Everybody is then free to decide if he will risk it or leave the pool.

On the long term I want to release a miner (open source of course) that will also connect to the coin network and retrieve work information from there. This way it is guaranteed that the pool cannot execute a 51% attack since it is based on withholding/manipulating blocks.

do you really believe the fee is only 6%? ;)
who did the math? ;D
Obviously you didn't. You are moderator on this board and it's a shame to see you spreading rumors.

On a side note we lowered the fee to 5% a few days ago. That is still a lot, I know. But the high fee is one of the things that stop the pool from having 100% of the hashrate.. so it's good for the network, don't you agree?

The problem is, there is no punishment to having 100% hashrate - noone will jump the ship, nor the value will fall until they violate the rules and do something stupid like attempting double-spend. That is, until they get hacked, and that will be the real disaster.
It's not that easy, really. How do you think it works? You gain access to the pool server in whatever way and then you just press the big red button? We don't even have standard wallets running and there is no source to be modified or anything. All the attacker will see are just some weird applications running with strange debug output, every intruder will be happy if he is even able to steal some coins.. but even that is not as trivial as you might think. Not on ypool at least.

Did a 51% attack by a large pool ever happen? Not that I remember.. for very good reasons.

Interesting how none of the staff of ypool have posted on this forum or if they have, haven't commented on this thread. Kinda makes me think they don't care for the network, but rather just care for their wallets..
I don't scavenge all forums daily for new posts. I also kind of lost interest to post anything here.. all I get is permanent bashing from the Protoshares staff. I said it once and I will repeat it again, I am happy to cooperate and answer any concerns, but usually all I can find here is ypool-sucks mentality.

Offline r05

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2014, 02:41:29 pm »
so, stating the brutal truth, whats left to do, other than to abandon pts and move on? If the other pools shut down and drive ypools miningshare to 100%, maybe they let go if there is no more value in pts for them...
I don't think the other pools are going to shutdown just to give in to ypool and hope they loose interest... That's the equivalent to letting the school bully beat the shit out of you because you hope he'll get bored and stop soon.. :P

I don't think any of the pools have that defeatist mentality, not quite ;) But an alternative - there is none not really. ypool should have closed its doors like BTC and LTC pools do when they neared 51% but they didn't, they carried on. We can only encourage miners to opt for the other pools - provide lower incentives such as lower tax rates and - I can't believe I'm saying it - limit optimized miners to the pools their developers support.
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Offline springlh

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2014, 02:37:14 pm »
hmm... I don't like ypool... for its scary poolfee... the 1PTS minimum payout is the only reason stopping me moving back to ptspool.... shame..... will have to mine 2-3 days in ypool to save my 0.7 PTS....
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Offline reorder

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2014, 02:11:20 pm »
The problem is, there is no punishment to having 100% hashrate - noone will jump the ship, nor the value will fall until they violate the rules and do something stupid like attempting double-spend. That is, until they get hacked, and that will be the real disaster.

Offline Isaaaaah

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2014, 01:43:40 pm »
so, stating the brutal truth, whats left to do, other than to abandon pts and move on? If the other pools shut down and drive ypools miningshare to 100%, maybe they let go if there is no more value in pts for them...
« Last Edit: January 16, 2014, 01:49:31 pm by Isaaaaah »
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Offline r05

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2014, 01:15:38 pm »

i disagree, pariah, responsible pools close down registrations at a certain hashrate.

Yep, ypool should of done something along time ago. It's one thing to be lazy and let it get to the point where it is 50%+. But to not do anything once the issue has occurred is a slap in the face to the community IMHO.
Interesting how none of the staff of ypool have posted on this forum or if they have, haven't commented on this thread. Kinda makes me think they don't care for the network, but rather just care for their wallets..
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Offline bitminer9000

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2014, 01:09:09 pm »

i disagree, pariah, responsible pools close down registrations at a certain hashrate.

Yep, ypool should of done something along time ago. It's one thing to be lazy and let it get to the point where it is 50%+. But to not do anything once the issue has occurred is a slap in the face to the community IMHO.

Offline mav2000

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2014, 09:11:12 am »
So taking the suggestion of some of the guys on this thread, I started using 1Gh. But the payouts so far seem to be far lower than what I was making at ypool. I admit its only been a couple of hours since I started, but on an avergae I get around .4-.5 pts a day, so I am going to run it for a day and see where it goes. At this point at 6 hours in I am looking at barely anything. .0035. At this rate, its not going to work out to what I normally get.

So there has to be more to it than what we see. Maybe I should try beeeeer as well.

Offline 5chdn

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2014, 10:35:53 pm »
I am also worried, but the earning in ypool is indeed the best, for which people can't resist. By the way, the fee of Ypool has been reduced to 5%
Sorry but: lies :)

Its one of the most distributed myths in here. Ypool payouts are intransparent and low. Tell me, how much value has a share at ypool?  ;D

Only the owner knows ... ;)

Offline r05

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2014, 10:19:57 pm »
I am also worried, but the earning in ypool is indeed the best, for which people can't resist. By the way, the fee of Ypool has been reduced to 5%
It has another 3% to go until it matches beeeeers... 8)
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Offline ripplexiaoshan

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2014, 10:10:50 pm »
I am also worried, but the earning in ypool is indeed the best, for which people can't resist. By the way, the fee of Ypool has been reduced to 5%
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Offline 5chdn

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2014, 09:54:24 pm »
Would moving to another pool reduce the payouts?

The only thing I dont like about Ypool is the 1 pts payout. But other than that I kind of like it. I dont mind checking out 1Gh or Beeeeer, but which one would be better? 1Gh seem to have a better interface

in theory (statistics), payouts are the same at every pool. the only difference is the fee.

simplyfied:
if you have 1 pool with 10 miners solving 1 block a day, each miner will get 1/10th block per day.
if you have 1 pool with 10000 miners solving 1000 blocks a day, ... guess what ... ;)

ypool can abuse it, which doesn't mean they are, but the fact that they are able to will drive the price down. We need to boycott ypool.

byocott would be a bit harsh.

a responsible pool would close down registrations at a hashrate of >30% of the network rate.

since they dont care for more than 2 months now i guess they are just greedy knocking of fees.

do you really believe the fee is only 6%? ;)
who did the math? ;D

This sucks for ypool because it's not ypool's fault that everybody's flocking to it, but I guess it doesn't suck too much because they are raking in the fees.

i disagree, pariah, responsible pools close down registrations at a certain hashrate.

Offline pariah99

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2014, 09:34:59 pm »
When you say 'higher variance' do you mean the chance of finding a block or a higher value share increases?

Well, neither - I was referring to how consistently the pool will generate protoshares for you.  The earnings each day are going to be a lot more spiky than a larger pool, but on average, after the pool fees are subtracted, they should be higher.

ypool can abuse it, which doesn't mean they are, but the fact that they are able to will drive the price down. We need to boycott ypool.

This sucks for ypool because it's not ypool's fault that everybody's flocking to it, but I guess it doesn't suck too much because they are raking in the fees.

Offline JustHayden

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2014, 09:30:56 pm »
ypool can abuse it, which doesn't mean they are, but the fact that they are able to will drive the price down. We need to boycott ypool.
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Offline fishseeds

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2014, 09:23:58 pm »


You'll have higher variance in smaller pools; however (assuming that you have the same hashrate) on average, a lower fee pool should pay out more than a high fee pool.

be^5 is 2.5% vs ypool's 6%, and I'm planning to have all my machines pointed there for a long time, so I don't mind.  Plus, having that much hashing power at one node opens up the risk of a double spend attack :/  I think it would be neat if somebody could develop a standard p2pool-like distributed pool for current and future DACs.

When you say 'higher variance' do you mean the chance of finding a block or a higher value share increases?

Offline r05

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2014, 04:16:16 pm »
Would moving to another pool reduce the payouts?

The only thing I dont like about Ypool is the 1 pts payout. But other than that I kind of like it. I dont mind checking out 1Gh or Beeeeer, but which one would be better? 1Gh seem to have a better interface
Quality of a visual web interface has never been an indication of how a pool performs, afaik..

Would moving to another pool reduce the payouts?

The only thing I dont like about Ypool is the 1 pts payout. But other than that I kind of like it. I dont mind checking out 1Gh or Beeeeer, but which one would be better? 1Gh seem to have a better interface

You'll have higher variance in smaller pools; however (assuming that you have the same hashrate) on average, a lower fee pool should pay out more than a high fee pool.

be^5 is 2.5% vs ypool's 6%, and I'm planning to have all my machines pointed there for a long time, so I don't mind.  Plus, having that much hashing power at one node opens up the risk of a double spend attack :/  I think it would be neat if somebody could develop a standard p2pool-like distributed pool for current and future DACs.
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Offline mav2000

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2014, 03:32:27 pm »
Would moving to another pool reduce the payouts?

The only thing I dont like about Ypool is the 1 pts payout. But other than that I kind of like it. I dont mind checking out 1Gh or Beeeeer, but which one would be better? 1Gh seem to have a better interface

You'll have higher variance in smaller pools; however (assuming that you have the same hashrate) on average, a lower fee pool should pay out more than a high fee pool.

be^5 is 2.5% vs ypool's 6%, and I'm planning to have all my machines pointed there for a long time, so I don't mind.  Plus, having that much hashing power at one node opens up the risk of a double spend attack :/  I think it would be neat if somebody could develop a standard p2pool-like distributed pool for current and future DACs.

Cool thanks. I think I will finish of the 1 PTS I have pending at Ypool before moving. And I seriously didnt know about the 6% fee...

Offline pariah99

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2014, 03:23:53 pm »
Would moving to another pool reduce the payouts?

The only thing I dont like about Ypool is the 1 pts payout. But other than that I kind of like it. I dont mind checking out 1Gh or Beeeeer, but which one would be better? 1Gh seem to have a better interface

You'll have higher variance in smaller pools; however (assuming that you have the same hashrate) on average, a lower fee pool should pay out more than a high fee pool.

be^5 is 2.5% vs ypool's 6%, and I'm planning to have all my machines pointed there for a long time, so I don't mind.  Plus, having that much hashing power at one node opens up the risk of a double spend attack :/  I think it would be neat if somebody could develop a standard p2pool-like distributed pool for current and future DACs.

Offline Isaaaaah

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2014, 03:08:29 pm »
The ~6% poolfee at ypool dont bother you?
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Offline mav2000

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2014, 02:43:01 pm »
Would moving to another pool reduce the payouts?

The only thing I dont like about Ypool is the 1 pts payout. But other than that I kind of like it. I dont mind checking out 1Gh or Beeeeer, but which one would be better? 1Gh seem to have a better interface

Offline Isaaaaah

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2014, 01:52:16 pm »
You can easily check on their site under stats > blocks found
When you choose to display the last 50 blocks found, the difference between the first and the last block shown should be at least 100
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Offline r05

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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2014, 01:09:32 pm »
+1 :)

Warning about this since November.

But then again, having more than 50% does not mean they are abusing it. It only says they could.

All you miners out there, if you need a recommendation, beeeeer is such a lovely pool ;D
This this this. If just for the sweet IRC channel. 8)

I had no idea ypool were accounting for so much % of the network.. I knew that they were big sure, but I was thinking ~50%.. No wonder other pools are struggling.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 01:11:21 pm by r05 »
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Re: Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2014, 01:07:49 pm »
+1 :)

Warning about this since November.

But then again, having more than 50% does not mean they are abusing it. It only says they could.

All you miners out there, if you need a recommendation, beeeeer is such a lovely pool ;D

Offline Isaaaaah

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Why is ypool destroying PTS? (70% mined by ypool)
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2014, 12:17:47 pm »
According to http://ypool.net/pts/stats_blocks
over the last 71 Blocks (Block 42202 to 42131) 50 of them were mined by ypool which is 70%
This is far beyond the feared 51% attack...
This leads to other pools drying out and the network getting centralized around the ypool entity.
Which in turn makes them currently the owners of protoshares and this results in difficulty and price drops.
srsly folks. y are you doing that?

Too greedy to switch to http://ptsweb.beeeeer.org/
or http://pts.1gh.net ?

I assume there are alot of frustrated miners that missed the bitcoin boom, who dont give a damn about decentralization/I3 and just want easy and quick profitz profitz profitz.
Well congratulations. You are ruining your profitz yourself...
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 12:26:21 pm by Isaaaaah »
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