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Offline mich431

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Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« on: January 18, 2014, 09:20:14 PM »

Hi all,

Ethereum (often considered a Bitshares alternative) is about to start something in 6 days / 25.1.2014... (see countdown at Main site: http://ethereum.org/ )
Do you think its better than bitshares? Why yes, why no?
Is it better to invest 100% in Ethereum instead of indirectly investing 1:10 (PTS share of bitshares is 10% only)
into bitshares right now? Can bitshares outperform ethereum by factor 10?
Really thinking about it where to invest and its a tough decision.. so whats your oppinion on that and why?


Whitepaper: http://vbuterin.com/ethereum.html
Forums: http://forum.ethereum.org/

Mich431
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 09:30:51 PM by mich431 »

sumantso

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Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2014, 09:24:20 PM »
Hi all,

Ethereum (often considered a Bitshares alternative) is about to launch soon (6 days / 25.1.2014)...
Do you think its better than bitshares? Why yes, why no?
Is it better to invest 100% in Ethereum instead of indirectly investing 1:10 (PTS share of bitshares is 10% only)
into bitshares right now? Can bitshares outperform ethereum by factor 10?
Really thinking about it where to invest and its a tough decision.. so whats your oppinion on that and why?

Main site: http://ethereum.org/
Whitepaper: http://vbuterin.com/ethereum.html
Forums: http://forum.ethereum.org/

Mich431

Sorry to be rude, but you can't just expect detailed when you haven't done even the most basic homework.

In anycase, look here https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=1765.0

Offline mich431

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Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2014, 09:27:16 PM »
there is a reason for your thread beeing posted in the development section of this forum and mine beeing here...
btw. Why are you rude if your sorry for it?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2014, 09:29:32 PM by mich431 »

Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2014, 09:28:58 PM »
Hi all,

Ethereum (often considered a Bitshares alternative) is about to launch soon (6 days / 25.1.2014)...
Do you think its better than bitshares? Why yes, why no?
Is it better to invest 100% in Ethereum instead of indirectly investing 1:10 (PTS share of bitshares is 10% only)
into bitshares right now? Can bitshares outperform ethereum by factor 10?
Really thinking about it where to invest and its a tough decision.. so whats your oppinion on that and why?

Main site: http://ethereum.org/
Whitepaper: http://vbuterin.com/ethereum.html
Forums: http://forum.ethereum.org/

Mich431

Hey, i'm a big fan of Ethereum but you've got your numbers wrong, they are starting fundraising at the end of this month.  They anticipate releasing a product I believe right before the toronto conference in April

Offline mich431

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Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2014, 09:32:01 PM »
good point... they dont say whats happening in 6 days (fixed in starting post) ... tho sucha countdown refering to a revelution implied to me its about launching it...

Offline smiley35

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Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2014, 09:35:46 PM »
Hi all,

Ethereum (often considered a Bitshares alternative) is about to launch soon (6 days / 25.1.2014)...
Do you think its better than bitshares? Why yes, why no?
Is it better to invest 100% in Ethereum instead of indirectly investing 1:10 (PTS share of bitshares is 10% only)
into bitshares right now? Can bitshares outperform ethereum by factor 10?
Really thinking about it where to invest and its a tough decision.. so whats your oppinion on that and why?

Main site: http://ethereum.org/
Whitepaper: http://vbuterin.com/ethereum.html
Forums: http://forum.ethereum.org/

Mich431

Hey, i'm a big fan of Ethereum but you've got your numbers wrong, they are starting fundraising at the end of this month.  They anticipate releasing a product I believe right before the toronto conference in April

Do you have any details about the fundraising Adam? The website is a little sparse.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2014, 09:41:38 PM »
NXT, Ethereum, BitShares X, Mastercoin, and Colored Coins all solve different problems. 

When they launch in April they will have a basic blockchain and would still have to implement all of the other infrastructure on top of it.

Should be interesting to see what kind of fundraising model they opt for.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline mich431

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Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2014, 09:58:17 PM »
NXT, Ethereum, BitShares X, Mastercoin, and Colored Coins all solve different problems. 

When they launch in April they will have a basic blockchain and would still have to implement all of the other infrastructure on top of it.

Should be interesting to see what kind of fundraising model they opt for.

tho its not easy to draw lines here i still wouldnt compare NXT with Bitshares for an example...
but if ethererum is successful as a protocol, it is probably easier to replicate the idea of bitshares ontop of it

Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2014, 02:41:25 AM »
I'm not intimately familiar with the details of the fundraiser, I think they're still under discussion.   I know it will be some sort of Mastercoin/Kickstarter style "give us development money we give you Ether" model.

I believe the intent is to announce full details at the Miami conference, end of the month.

One thing to note is that Ether is a relatively medium-term opportunity compared to other metacoin layers since the money supply goes up forever at a relatively fast rate.   Ether is not as inherently deflationary as Bitcoin for example.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2014, 03:02:14 AM »
Adam, what did you mean by that sentence
Quote
One thing to note is that Ether is a relatively medium-term opportunity compared to other metacoin layers since the
money supply goes up forever at a relatively fast rate.   Ether is not as inherently deflationary as Bitcoin for example.

Medium term compared to short or long term? ;)
Bitcoin and more so Ether are inflationary until mining is (almost) done...


Quote
supply goes up forever at a relatively fast rate

???
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 03:11:08 AM by delulo »

Offline AdamBLevine

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Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2014, 04:10:19 AM »
I looked it up in the whitepaper.  I am not sure if this is the most recent iteration, I complained about the founders being separated out from other before-launch developers and I believe they've lumped them both together

Quote
The issuance model will be as follows:

Ether will be sold in a Mastercoin-style fundraiser at the price of 1 ether for 0.0001 BTC. Suppose that X ether gets collected in this way.
0.25X ether will be given to the founders.
0.25X ether will be given to the Ethereum organization as a reserve pool to pay expenses in ETH such as ETH salaries or bounties for those developers who want part or all of their compensation to be in this form
0.5X ether will be mined per year forever after that point (ie. permanent linear inflation)[/quote]

You can read more at the whitepaper http://vitalik.ca/ethereum.html, look for Issuance

But basically this means that every year, 50% will be added to the money supply.  Forever.   That is distinctly different and noticably less "profitable" for early adopters choosing where to invest than flatly deflationary concepts like mastercoin or bitshares.  Once the  supply is issued, that's it.  The number can shrink but it can never grow.     With Ethereum they're anticipating so much growth that even with an exponentially growing (50% compounding annually is exponential, right?) money supply the demand will far outpace supply.   

There's no right answer here, and I for one am glad that people are trying out different approaches because that's how we're going to find the answer.  No matter who wins, all these concepts and companies are being developed in public and building open source ecosystems.  That's nothing but a win, so I say invest in all of them.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2014, 04:31:35 AM »
I looked it up in the whitepaper.  I am not sure if this is the most recent iteration, I complained about the founders being separated out from other before-launch developers and I believe they've lumped them both together

Quote
The issuance model will be as follows:

Ether will be sold in a Mastercoin-style fundraiser at the price of 1 ether for 0.0001 BTC. Suppose that X ether gets collected in this way.
0.25X ether will be given to the founders.
0.25X ether will be given to the Ethereum organization as a reserve pool to pay expenses in ETH such as ETH salaries or bounties for those developers who want part or all of their compensation to be in this form
0.5X ether will be mined per year forever after that point (ie. permanent linear inflation)[/quote]

You can read more at the whitepaper http://vitalik.ca/ethereum.html, look for Issuance

But basically this means that every year, 50% will be added to the money supply.  Forever.   That is distinctly different and noticably less "profitable" for early adopters choosing where to invest than flatly deflationary concepts like mastercoin or bitshares.  Once the  supply is issued, that's it.  The number can shrink but it can never grow.     With Ethereum they're anticipating so much growth that even with an exponentially growing (50% compounding annually is exponential, right?) money supply the demand will far outpace supply.   

There's no right answer here, and I for one am glad that people are trying out different approaches because that's how we're going to find the answer.  No matter who wins, all these concepts and companies are being developed in public and building open source ecosystems.  That's nothing but a win, so I say invest in all of them.
Your math is wrong, the inflation rate will approach 0% as the monetary base approaches infinity.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2014, 05:09:07 AM »
Quote
Your math is wrong, the inflation rate will approach 0% as the monetary base approaches infinity.

what is the monetary base in your equation?

What would be Ethereum's business model? How would ether holders profit from other developers building upon it?

Offline bytemaster

Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2014, 05:28:20 AM »
Quote
Your math is wrong, the inflation rate will approach 0% as the monetary base approaches infinity.

what is the monetary base in your equation?

What would be Ethereum's business model? How would ether holders profit from other developers building upon it?

Day One: Monetary Base is 2x
Year One: Monetary Base is 2.5x
Year Two: Monetary Base is 3x...

Everyone who contributes funds is diluted 33% in the genesis block, 50% by the end of the first year, 66% in 3 years and over 80% in 10 years.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline santaclause102

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Re: Ethereum - better than Bitshares?
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2014, 06:01:15 AM »
Quote
Your math is wrong, the inflation rate will approach 0% as the monetary base approaches infinity.

what is the monetary base in your equation?

What would be Ethereum's business model? How would ether holders profit from other developers building upon it?

Day One: Monetary Base is 2x
Year One: Monetary Base is 2.5x
Year Two: Monetary Base is 3x...

Everyone who contributes funds is diluted 33% in the genesis block, 50% by the end of the first year, 66% in 3 years and over 80% in 10 years.

What I meant was this: Ethereum doesn't provide any service by itself. It is just a base layer. So the question is: How is it assured that ether holders profit if a DAC layers on top of ethereum?

 

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