AGS and PTS snapshot on Feb 28 - bitshares x test

[bytemaster]

Yes. 


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[HCarvalho]

those are on my wallet right?

[bytemaster]

No need to do anything.  Just hold your private keys


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[HCarvalho]

so, what will users like me who only have some PTS and aren't mining anymore have to do on February 28th? Have ou PTS wallet open?

[jae208]

Yeah, lots of incentive to get it right the first time

Yes but it probably won't be done right the first time. I think there may be a month or two of a delay.
I'm just sticking to Protoshares now as I can always convert to BTC and cash out if needed.

[jifehuang]

Does this mean to treat our test shares as if they were the real thing because they might become so at any moment? Only a critical failure that requires a restart will reset their value?

For XT to be testable they have to have nonzero value.  They get that value from the fact that the current version could become the real one.  We will all discover this together.

Once a chain is started, can it be declared as not real afterwards? It may be phased out, by a new chain, because of bugs, or lack of functionality, etc, but it should always be real. Even when the market is abandoning it, its value greatly depreciated, as long as the value is not zero, it's still real. I believe we should consider it as always real if we let the market only to sort it out. Even if it is called XT, it should not be like the bitcoin testnet, which can be reset at someone's will.

[Stan]

Does this mean to treat our test shares as if they were the real thing because they might become so at any moment? Only a critical failure that requires a restart will reset their value?

For XT to be testable they have to have nonzero value.  They get that value from the fact that the current version could become the real one.  We will all discover this together.

[sschechter]

Does this mean to treat our test shares as if they were the real thing because they might become so at any moment? Only a critical failure that requires a restart will reset their value?

[Stan]

After Feb 28 AGS investors will have a hard time making decisions, especially for investment in BTC. If the first testnet becomes successfully,  the AGS obtained in Mar and later gives you no BTS.

They give you shares in future DACs, icluding new chains of BTSX. Say, a floating interest is implemented in a future chain which releases in April; then each AGS will give you 2 shares in that new chain (while PTS will give you some 1.5).

Bytemaster has said if the new DACs don't require much extra work they will be very likely awarded 50/50 to AGS/PTS.

Still confusion. If the first chain is successful, why will there be a second chain? If the second chain contains new features, how to ensure people to adopt it when many are already using the first chain (some may even made a profit on it) ? Is it introducing competition among BTSv1 and BTSv2, and possibly more to come?

As long as a chain is functioning adequately, you let it run rather than perturb the environment for its users.  (Small upgrades can be added without perturbing the rules.)

But natural competition will always introduce better or special-purpose competing chains.  (If we don't do it someone else will.) 

The beautiful thing about the BitShares Ecosystem is that introduction of new chains is not disruptive because every PTS/AGS holder automatically has a stake in both the old and the new.

So utilization and value can change gradually as each individual decides when to switch over.
If you like the new version, sell your old shares early.  If you are not so sure, stick with what already has the network effect.  Or keep your shares in both and win either way.

No worries.  No panics. Take your time and let the market sort it out.

[Amazon]

Why not take a snapshot on the 28th and let us all beta test it for a month to fix any bugs?  If all works out take a final snapshot and official launch the following month?

Because for a pure testnet, the test-bts collateral has no value

This process of launching test networks that "might be final release" networks will continue until all bugs are found.  This is necessary because for a test network to function it must have a non-0 value otherwise bitasset evaluation results in divide by 0 errors.   

[Brekyrself]

Why not take a snapshot on the 28th and let us all beta test it for a month to fix any bugs?  If all works out take a final snapshot and official launch the following month?

[toast]

Different chains will have different assets and different rules like interest rates
There will also be non-BTS DACs

[jifehuang]

After Feb 28 AGS investors will have a hard time making decisions, especially for investment in BTC. If the first testnet becomes successfully,  the AGS obtained in Mar and later gives you no BTS.

They give you shares in future DACs, icluding new chains of BTSX. Say, a floating interest is implemented in a future chain which releases in April; then each AGS will give you 2 shares in that new chain (while PTS will give you some 1.5).

Bytemaster has said if the new DACs don't require much extra work they will be very likely awarded 50/50 to AGS/PTS.

Still confusion. If the first chain is successful, why will there be a second chain? If the second chain contains new features, how to ensure people to adopt it when many are already using the first chain (some may even made a profit on it) ? Is it introducing competition among BTSv1 and BTSv2, and possibly more to come?

[Amazon]

so nobody know which version will success.
I have no courage to test the function by buy or sell my bts. maybe tomorrow the price is totally different.
All I can do is do nothing before I know it is success.

+1
I would do the same thing. You may lose a lot because of a bug or the volatility in the test.

[sumantso]

After Feb 28 AGS investors will have a hard time making decisions, especially for investment in BTC. If the first testnet becomes successfully,  the AGS obtained in Mar and later gives you no BTS.

They give you shares in future DACs, icluding new chains of BTSX. Say, a floating interest is implemented in a future chain which releases in April; then each AGS will give you 2 shares in that new chain (while PTS will give you some 1.5).

Bytemaster has said if the new DACs don't require much extra work they will be very likely awarded 50/50 to AGS/PTS.

[FelixO]

thanks bytemaster!

[jifehuang]

After Feb 28 AGS investors will have a hard time making decisions, especially for investment in BTC. If the first testnet becomes successfully,  the AGS obtained in Mar and later gives you no BTS.

[bytemaster]

Do I understand this correctly?

If I want Angelshares that are awarded with BTS I need to purchase (via donation) them definitely before Feb 28, correct?

What happens with donations that are sent out after this date?

We have a road map with dozens of DACs and the donations after that date will count toward them.  There will be many BitShares X chains and you will get a stake in them.    And obviously if our test chain fails, then there will be a new snapshot for the second test chain we launch.

[bytemaster]

If Feb 28 is the final snapshot, then AGS is converted to BTS at about 3.5:1.  Every fail means a new snapshot is taken and the ratio lowers.  Correct?

Exactly.

[toast]

Yeah, lots of incentive to get it right the first time

[JakeThePanda]

If Feb 28 is the final snapshot, then AGS is converted to BTS at about 3.5:1.  Every fail means a new snapshot is taken and the ratio lowers.  Correct?

[FelixO]

Do I understand this correctly?

If I want Angelshares that are awarded with BTS I need to purchase (via donation) them definitely before Feb 28, correct?

What happens with donations that are sent out after this date?

[coolspeed]

so nobody know which version will success.
I have no courage to test the function by buy or sell my bts. maybe tomorrow the price is totally different.
All I can do is do nothing before I know it is success.

Yes, we are preparing a mass mailing on this topic.  If BitShares X Test is successful we will simply drop the Test from the name, if it fails in some manner that is unrecoverable then a new snapshot will be used.   Thus the value of the BTS (and BitUSD etc) in the test chain must factor in probability of catastrophic failure and reset of the chain.  It should go up over time as the likelihood of failure decreases. 

This process of launching test networks that "might be final release" networks will continue until all bugs are found.  This is necessary because for a test network to function it must have a non-0 value otherwise bitasset evaluation results in divide by 0 errors.   

Note that having many parallel chains was always in the plan and a version 2 chain with variable interest rates set by market forces will come out later as well.  So some bugs that result in the launch of a new chain may not mean the complete death of the initial test chain.  If the initial test chain has any residual value or can be 'patched' then it might take on a life of its own.

very confuse...
:o

How can a clarify?

You can test with only a little bts.
The price will remain irrational, and as the possibility to success goes up, the price will continuously become more and more rational. Everybody has time to adjust.
After all, testing only a little is safe.

[codinat]

bytemaster,辛苦了，我们很期待！

[bytemaster]

Does this mean keyhotee genesis block is definitely before feb 28th, since keyhotee private keys get some BTS?

It better be or I will have some words with Dan N. ;)

[toast]

Does this mean keyhotee genesis block is definitely before feb 28th, since keyhotee private keys get some BTS?

[alt]

so nobody know which version will success.
I have no courage to test the function by buy or sell my bts. maybe tomorrow the price is totally different.
All I can do is do nothing before I know it is success.

Yes, we are preparing a mass mailing on this topic.  If BitShares X Test is successful we will simply drop the Test from the name, if it fails in some manner that is unrecoverable then a new snapshot will be used.   Thus the value of the BTS (and BitUSD etc) in the test chain must factor in probability of catastrophic failure and reset of the chain.  It should go up over time as the likelihood of failure decreases. 

This process of launching test networks that "might be final release" networks will continue until all bugs are found.  This is necessary because for a test network to function it must have a non-0 value otherwise bitasset evaluation results in divide by 0 errors.   

Note that having many parallel chains was always in the plan and a version 2 chain with variable interest rates set by market forces will come out later as well.  So some bugs that result in the launch of a new chain may not mean the complete death of the initial test chain.  If the initial test chain has any residual value or can be 'patched' then it might take on a life of its own.

very confuse...
:o

How can a clarify?

[bytemaster]

Yes, we are preparing a mass mailing on this topic.  If BitShares X Test is successful we will simply drop the Test from the name, if it fails in some manner that is unrecoverable then a new snapshot will be used.   Thus the value of the BTS (and BitUSD etc) in the test chain must factor in probability of catastrophic failure and reset of the chain.  It should go up over time as the likelihood of failure decreases. 

This process of launching test networks that "might be final release" networks will continue until all bugs are found.  This is necessary because for a test network to function it must have a non-0 value otherwise bitasset evaluation results in divide by 0 errors.   

Note that having many parallel chains was always in the plan and a version 2 chain with variable interest rates set by market forces will come out later as well.  So some bugs that result in the launch of a new chain may not mean the complete death of the initial test chain.  If the initial test chain has any residual value or can be 'patched' then it might take on a life of its own.

very confuse...
:o

How can a clarify?

[alt]

Yes, we are preparing a mass mailing on this topic.  If BitShares X Test is successful we will simply drop the Test from the name, if it fails in some manner that is unrecoverable then a new snapshot will be used.   Thus the value of the BTS (and BitUSD etc) in the test chain must factor in probability of catastrophic failure and reset of the chain.  It should go up over time as the likelihood of failure decreases. 

This process of launching test networks that "might be final release" networks will continue until all bugs are found.  This is necessary because for a test network to function it must have a non-0 value otherwise bitasset evaluation results in divide by 0 errors.   

Note that having many parallel chains was always in the plan and a version 2 chain with variable interest rates set by market forces will come out later as well.  So some bugs that result in the launch of a new chain may not mean the complete death of the initial test chain.  If the initial test chain has any residual value or can be 'patched' then it might take on a life of its own.

very confuse...
:o

[bytemaster]

I would like to avoid the legal implications of such an approach.

[toast]

So it is test chain only? If the test is working well, will there be another snapshot, or just using the snapshot on Feb 28th?
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If it works well then it will have much value, if it fails there will be a new snapshot. 

There will of course be many other chains and snapshots.

Please clarify: Does this mean that unless there is an issue warranting a new snapshot, then the snapshot taken on Feb. 28 for BitShares X Test will be the same snapshot used for BitShares X (Production)?

If the answer is yes, then this is a huge deal. And there needs to be a huge notification/advertisement campaign so people can acquire PTS/AGS in time.

Yes, we are preparing a mass mailing on this topic.  If BitShares X Test is successful we will simply drop the Test from the name, if it fails in some manner that is unrecoverable then a new snapshot will be used.   Thus the value of the BTS (and BitUSD etc) in the test chain must factor in probability of catastrophic failure and reset of the chain.  It should go up over time as the likelihood of failure decreases. 

This process of launching test networks that "might be final release" networks will continue until all bugs are found.  This is necessary because for a test network to function it must have a non-0 value otherwise bitasset evaluation results in divide by 0 errors.   

Note that having many parallel chains was always in the plan and a version 2 chain with variable interest rates set by market forces will come out later as well.  So some bugs that result in the launch of a new chain may not mean the complete death of the initial test chain.  If the initial test chain has any residual value or can be 'patched' then it might take on a life of its own.

Why not make each testnet's total worth be backed by several orders of PTS (50, 200, 1500) as you launch more and more stable versions? You could redeem your test1shares for PTS at a 40,000:1 ratio, then a 10,000:1 ratio, etc.

[bytemaster]

So it is test chain only? If the test is working well, will there be another snapshot, or just using the snapshot on Feb 28th?
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If it works well then it will have much value, if it fails there will be a new snapshot. 

There will of course be many other chains and snapshots.

Please clarify: Does this mean that unless there is an issue warranting a new snapshot, then the snapshot taken on Feb. 28 for BitShares X Test will be the same snapshot used for BitShares X (Production)?

If the answer is yes, then this is a huge deal. And there needs to be a huge notification/advertisement campaign so people can acquire PTS/AGS in time.

Yes, we are preparing a mass mailing on this topic.  If BitShares X Test is successful we will simply drop the Test from the name, if it fails in some manner that is unrecoverable then a new snapshot will be used.   Thus the value of the BTS (and BitUSD etc) in the test chain must factor in probability of catastrophic failure and reset of the chain.  It should go up over time as the likelihood of failure decreases. 

This process of launching test networks that "might be final release" networks will continue until all bugs are found.  This is necessary because for a test network to function it must have a non-0 value otherwise bitasset evaluation results in divide by 0 errors.   

Note that having many parallel chains was always in the plan and a version 2 chain with variable interest rates set by market forces will come out later as well.  So some bugs that result in the launch of a new chain may not mean the complete death of the initial test chain.  If the initial test chain has any residual value or can be 'patched' then it might take on a life of its own. 

[toast]

So it is test chain only? If the test is working well, will there be another snapshot, or just using the snapshot on Feb 28th?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it works well then it will have much value, if it fails there will be a new snapshot. 

There will of course be many other chains and snapshots.

Please clarify: Does this mean that unless there is an issue warranting a new snapshot, then the snapshot taken on Feb. 28 for BitShares X Test will be the same snapshot used for BitShares X (Production)?

If the answer is yes, then this is a huge deal. And there needs to be a huge notification/advertisement campaign so people can acquire PTS/AGS in time.

I assume they mean new test snapshot

[vikram]

So it is test chain only? If the test is working well, will there be another snapshot, or just using the snapshot on Feb 28th?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it works well then it will have much value, if it fails there will be a new snapshot. 

There will of course be many other chains and snapshots.

Please clarify: Does this mean that unless there is an issue warranting a new snapshot, then the snapshot taken on Feb. 28 for BitShares X Test will be the same snapshot used for BitShares X (Production)?

If the answer is yes, then this is a huge deal. And there needs to be a huge notification/advertisement campaign so people can acquire PTS/AGS in time.

[bytemaster]

So it is test chain only? If the test is working well, will there be another snapshot, or just using the snapshot on Feb 28th?
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If it works well then it will have much value, if it fails there will be a new snapshot. 

There will of course be many other chains and snapshots.

Be sure to consider the serious risk that our Feb 28th chain, BitShares XT, could simply work the first time and thus enjoy a first-mover network effect all its own.   

Murphy's Law applies to itself too:
"Anything that can go wrong will go wrong unless you are counting on it to go wrong."

:)

The same thought. But isn't it run on the central server?
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We will see how far we get, but even if it starts on a central server it can be seamlessly upgraded to be decentralized.

[coolspeed]

So it is test chain only? If the test is working well, will there be another snapshot, or just using the snapshot on Feb 28th?
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If it works well then it will have much value, if it fails there will be a new snapshot. 

There will of course be many other chains and snapshots.

Be sure to consider the serious risk that our Feb 28th chain, BitShares XT, could simply work the first time and thus enjoy a first-mover network effect all its own.   

Murphy's Law applies to itself too:
"Anything that can go wrong will go wrong unless you are counting on it to go wrong."

:)

The same thought. But isn't it run on the central server?



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[Stan]

So it is test chain only? If the test is working well, will there be another snapshot, or just using the snapshot on Feb 28th?
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If it works well then it will have much value, if it fails there will be a new snapshot. 

There will of course be many other chains and snapshots.

Be sure to consider the serious risk that our Feb 28th chain, BitShares XT, could simply work the first time and thus enjoy a first-mover network effect all its own.   

Murphy's Law applies to itself too:
"Anything that can go wrong will go wrong unless you are counting on it to go wrong."

:)

[bytemaster]

So it is test chain only? If the test is working well, will there be another snapshot, or just using the snapshot on Feb 28th?
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If it works well then it will have much value, if it fails there will be a new snapshot. 

There will of course be many other chains and snapshots.

[mitao]

So it is test chain only? If the test is working well, will there be another snapshot, or just using the snapshot on Feb 28th?


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[jae208]

This is fantastic! :) Is there a hard deadline for when Bitshares X should be officially out?
Do you think BItshares x will be out no later than the Las Vegas conference?

As always, it depends on how testing goes.   :)

We have noted that others are already helping to find and fix bugs in the current release.  This certainly helps to accelerate things!

The code that's out there right now also an opportunity for 3rd Party developers to start working early on all manner of supporting GUIs and value-added components.

Thus, the answer to your question is really, "It depends on how much help we have."

;)

So what you're really saying is, "shut up and help us materialize this sooner!" :p

Problem for me though is that I'm not a devloper at least not YET so I'm not too sure how else
I can help. However, I will try to do the best I can to help. :)
You guys are awesome keep up the excellent work!

[codinat]

Stan,请介绍下大会的成果！谢谢

[Stan]

This is fantastic! :) Is there a hard deadline for when Bitshares X should be officially out?
Do you think BItshares x will be out no later than the Las Vegas conference?

As always, it depends on how testing goes.   :)

We have noted that others are already helping to find and fix bugs in the current release.  This certainly helps to accelerate things!

The code that's out there right now also an opportunity for 3rd Party developers to start working early on all manner of supporting GUIs and value-added components.

Thus, the answer to your question is really, "It depends on how much help we have."

;)

[jae208]

This is fantastic! :) Is there a hard deadline for when Bitshares X should be officially out?
Do you think BItshares x will be out no later than the Las Vegas conference?

[bytemaster]

So after the 28th february, 4M BTS will be allocated proportionally to AGS and PTS holders?

Yes for the test chain. 


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[yidaidaxia]

Thanks. Also my expectation. Let's wait for bytemaster's response.

Great!

So we will just test this feature(BTS X allocated to AGS/PTS) or also including other features of Bitshares X at Feb 28th test?

Thanks.

The last BTC and PTS block on feb 28 th will be used for the snapshot of the bitshares XT blockchain.  This will be the first feature complete test network. 




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To my understanding, it's a feature complete version and we will test and report bugs for all the features.
Cuz, for BTS genesis block allocation only, you don't need a whole test network.
(Or, you can wait for bytemaster himself to confirm this.)

[coolspeed]

Great!

So we will just test this feature(BTS X allocated to AGS/PTS) or also including other features of Bitshares X at Feb 28th test?

Thanks.

The last BTC and PTS block on feb 28 th will be used for the snapshot of the bitshares XT blockchain.  This will be the first feature complete test network. 




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To my understanding, it's a feature complete version and we will test and report bugs for all the features.
Cuz, for BTS genesis block allocation only, you don't need a whole test network.
(Or, you can wait for bytemaster himself to confirm this.)

[coolspeed]

您的意思是2月28号之前的ags.pts分得bts4oo万？之后ags.pts还会存在一段时间。

Only for test blockchain. And I suppose the blockchain will be on I3's central server.

translate:
只是测试网络上的区块链。我估计这个区块链也是跑在服务器上的。

[yidaidaxia]

Great!

So we will just test this feature(BTS X allocated to AGS/PTS) or also including other features of Bitshares X at Feb 28th test?

Thanks.

The last BTC and PTS block on feb 28 th will be used for the snapshot of the bitshares XT blockchain.  This will be the first feature complete test network. 




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[peterzz]

Great work~
That mean i can see my all BTS on test network at feb 28 th ?

[alt]

can't waiting.
blockchain with Consensus + TaPOS?
or just create by the central server?

[CLains]

Fun times!

[ReWeR]

So after the 28th february, 4M BTS will be allocated proportionally to AGS and PTS holders?

No, pretty sure he means a TEST blockchain. Not the real one.

[codinat]

您的意思是2月28号之前的ags.pts分得bts4oo万？之后ags.pts还会存在一段时间。

[johncitizen]

So after the 28th february, 4M BTS will be allocated proportionally to AGS and PTS holders?

[bytemaster]

The last BTC and PTS block on feb 28 th will be used for the snapshot of the bitshares XT blockchain.  This will be the first feature complete test network. 




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