How were the BTWTY tokens issued?

EstefanTT · February 09, 2018, 09:42:23 PM

Quote from: pc on January 14, 2018, 09:46:05 PM
Right now there is no short position that could have been margin called, because the asset is still in black swan state.

It will be revived when either the BTS price increases so that the value of the settlement fund is higher than the collateral requirement for the existing BTWTY, or when an investor shows up and creates a bid for the missing collateral.

With 1.016 BTWTY currently in existance, a price feed of 576133 BTS/BTWTY, MCR of 175% and a settlement fund of 352693, an investor would have to offer this amount to get it revived:
1.016 * 576133 * 1.75 - 352693 = 671672 BTS

That's a lot of money. (And he'd be in danger of being margin called quickly, unless he'd put in even more.)

@EstefanTT you really should remove the override_transfer permission, or explain what you need it for. Doesn't look good.

I understand the concerns. I will disable it next time I update the smartcoin (in the next days). My intention is to provide a decentralised crypto fund with no need to trust me or anyone else. Obviously, this permission is not aligned with my intention.

If possible, I would prefer further questions in the Telegram group Bit20. We are 350 users now. I don't visit usually this forum and can't answer your questions as promptly as I would like to.

https://t.me/bittwenty

Margaret · January 22, 2018, 05:11:05 PM

Quote from: kadawum on January 15, 2018, 03:28:53 AM
Quote from: EstefanTT on January 14, 2018, 12:31:07 PM
There are a big difference between permissions and flags. Permissions are possibilities, flags are real. I leave all permission as standard but I only have 2 active flags : "Charge market fee" and "Witness fed asset". You can see them here : http://cryptofresh.com/a/BTWTY

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you leave the permission enabled, then you can change the flag whenever you want so that you have the possibility to transfer any BTWTY at your will... Or is that not the case?

The Bitshares Documentation clearly states: "When an asset is created, the issuer can set any combination of flags/permissions. Flags are set in stone unless there is permission to edit. Once a permission to edit is revoked, flags are permanent, and can never be modified again."

Therefore, as far as I understand it, you as the issuer have the permission enabled to edit the flag "ISSUER MAY TRANSFER ASSET BACK TO HIMSELF". That means you could enable the flag at any time and could make use of it and just transfer funds as you wish. So why not disable that permission? If you have no intention to use that flag, then there should not be any reason to leave that permission enabled, or is there?

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you leave the permission enabled, then you can change the flag whenever you want so that you have the possibility to transfer any BTWTY at your will... Or is that not the case?

pc · January 15, 2018, 02:54:20 PM

There's a command in the cli_wallet: https://github.com/bitshares/bitshares-core/blob/master/libraries/wallet/include/graphene/wallet/wallet.hpp#L1193

I don't think there is support in the GUI at this time.

yvv · January 15, 2018, 02:32:35 PM

Quote from: pc on January 14, 2018, 09:46:05 PM

It will be revived when either the BTS price increases so that the value of the settlement fund is higher than the collateral requirement for the existing BTWTY, or when an investor shows up and creates a bid for the missing collateral.

I don't get it. How would investor "create a bid"?

kadawum · January 15, 2018, 03:28:53 AM

Quote from: EstefanTT on January 14, 2018, 12:31:07 PM
There are a big difference between permissions and flags. Permissions are possibilities, flags are real. I leave all permission as standard but I only have 2 active flags : "Charge market fee" and "Witness fed asset". You can see them here : http://cryptofresh.com/a/BTWTY

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you leave the permission enabled, then you can change the flag whenever you want so that you have the possibility to transfer any BTWTY at your will... Or is that not the case?

The Bitshares Documentation clearly states: "When an asset is created, the issuer can set any combination of flags/permissions. Flags are set in stone unless there is permission to edit. Once a permission to edit is revoked, flags are permanent, and can never be modified again."

Therefore, as far as I understand it, you as the issuer have the permission enabled to edit the flag "ISSUER MAY TRANSFER ASSET BACK TO HIMSELF". That means you could enable the flag at any time and could make use of it and just transfer funds as you wish. So why not disable that permission? If you have no intention to use that flag, then there should not be any reason to leave that permission enabled, or is there?

pc · January 14, 2018, 09:46:05 PM

Right now there is no short position that could have been margin called, because the asset is still in black swan state.

It will be revived when either the BTS price increases so that the value of the settlement fund is higher than the collateral requirement for the existing BTWTY, or when an investor shows up and creates a bid for the missing collateral.

With 1.016 BTWTY currently in existance, a price feed of 576133 BTS/BTWTY, MCR of 175% and a settlement fund of 352693, an investor would have to offer this amount to get it revived:
1.016 * 576133 * 1.75 - 352693 = 671672 BTS

That's a lot of money. (And he'd be in danger of being margin called quickly, unless he'd put in even more.)

@EstefanTT you really should remove the override_transfer permission, or explain what you need it for. Doesn't look good.

yvv · January 14, 2018, 02:37:19 PM

Quote from: EstefanTT on January 14, 2018, 12:19:50 PM
Quote from: yvv on January 12, 2018, 09:22:35 PM
They were shorted/borrowed into existence until global settlement happened. BTWTY suffered from black swan event along with some other assets. After black swap recovery was implemented, some assets were revived but BTWTY is still down. It looks like witnesses lost interest in producing price feeds for it. Yes, BTWTY was created by an individual. Everybody can create a bitasset.

I have 3 witnesses publishing the price feed at the moment. The problem comes from the collateral. It's not reaching 175% of the whole supply of BTWTY. Thus, you can't borrow at the moment. BitShares just need to rise a little more and the market will be completely operational.

I'll ask for more witnesses as soon as the borrowing function is back.

How is this possible? Should not under collateralized positions be margin called?

EstefanTT · January 14, 2018, 12:31:07 PM

Quote from: kadawum on January 12, 2018, 09:59:42 PM
Thank you for the explanation. So, how can I determine for a specific asset if it was completely borrowed into existence or if some of the supply was issued by some centralized individual or organization?

Furthermore, in the BTWTY page (https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/asset/BTWTY) the asset is listed with the permission "ISSUER MAY TRANSFER ASSET BACK TO HIMSELF". So it seems that the individual who controls the issuing account (in this case estefantt) is able to just transfer the assets back to himself as he wishes. Is there a good reason that this permission flag is enabled? It seems that most other assets (HERO, BitUSD, ...) have this flag enabled as well. In the case of BitUSD the issuer is the committee-account, so that I assume that it is much harder to make use of this permission. But in the case of BTWTY and HERO, it seems that it makes the asset completely centralized and controllable by the one individual who is listed as issuer. Am I missing something here as well? Thank you.

Hi, I 'm the founder of Bit20.

To understand fully the mechanics behind Bit20 I recommend to read the following webpages:

Website : http://www.bittwenty.com
Market : http://cryptofresh.com/a/BTWTY
Bitshares smartcoins : https://bitshares.org/technology/price-stable-cryptocurrencies/

Here you'll find the latest news.

News : https://steemit.com/@blocktivity

There are a big difference between permissions and flags. Permissions are possibilities, flags are real. I leave all permission as standard but I only have 2 active flags : "Charge market fee" and "Witness fed asset". You can see them here : http://cryptofresh.com/a/BTWTY

For any further questions, I would prefer if we use the Bit20 Telegram channel. I'm more reactive there. I only check this forum from time to time.

Telegram group : https://t.me/bittwenty

EstefanTT · January 14, 2018, 12:19:50 PM

Quote from: yvv on January 12, 2018, 09:22:35 PM
They were shorted/borrowed into existence until global settlement happened. BTWTY suffered from black swan event along with some other assets. After black swap recovery was implemented, some assets were revived but BTWTY is still down. It looks like witnesses lost interest in producing price feeds for it. Yes, BTWTY was created by an individual. Everybody can create a bitasset.

I have 3 witnesses publishing the price feed at the moment. The problem comes from the collateral. It's not reaching 175% of the whole supply of BTWTY. Thus, you can't borrow at the moment. BitShares just need to rise a little more and the market will be completely operational.

I'll ask for more witnesses as soon as the borrowing function is back.

yvv · January 13, 2018, 10:19:47 PM

Quote from: kadawum on January 13, 2018, 08:19:03 PM
Quote from: yvv on January 13, 2018, 05:55:59 PM
QuoteISSUER MAY TRANSFER ASSET BACK TO HIMSELF

I don't know what the hell does this exactly mean, but bitAsset issuer certainly can't transfer it to himself at his will.

According to this blog entry (http://bit.ly/2D9C5e7) it allows exactly this: to transfer it to anyone else at his will.

This blog entry talks about user issued assets (UIA). BTWTY is an market pegged asset (MPA, like bitUSD). It was created by an individual, but it is issued by shorters in a trustless way.

kadawum · January 13, 2018, 08:19:03 PM

Quote from: yvv on January 13, 2018, 05:55:59 PM
QuoteISSUER MAY TRANSFER ASSET BACK TO HIMSELF

I don't know what the hell does this exactly mean, but bitAsset issuer certainly can't transfer it to himself at his will.

According to this blog entry (http://bit.ly/2D9C5e7) it allows exactly this: to transfer it to anyone else at his will.

yvv · January 13, 2018, 05:55:59 PM

QuoteISSUER MAY TRANSFER ASSET BACK TO HIMSELF

I don't know what the hell does this exactly mean, but bitAsset issuer certainly can't transfer it to himself at his will.

R · January 13, 2018, 04:15:22 PM

Quote from: kadawum on January 12, 2018, 09:59:42 PM
Thank you for the explanation. So, how can I determine for a specific asset if it was completely borrowed into existence or if some of the supply was issued by some centralized individual or organization?

It's a smartcoin, it's fundamentally impossible to centrally issue without backing collateral. It can only be shorted into existence with 200% collateral.

Quote from: kadawum on January 12, 2018, 09:59:42 PM
Furthermore, in the BTWTY page (https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/asset/BTWTY) the asset is listed with the permission "ISSUER MAY TRANSFER ASSET BACK TO HIMSELF". So it seems that the individual who controls the issuing account (in this case estefantt) is able to just transfer the assets back to himself as he wishes. Is there a good reason that this permission flag is enabled? It seems that most other assets (HERO, BitUSD, ...) have this flag enabled as well. In the case of BitUSD the issuer is the committee-account, so that I assume that it is much harder to make use of this permission. But in the case of BTWTY and HERO, it seems that it makes the asset completely centralized and controllable by the one individual who is listed as issuer. Am I missing something here as well? Thank you.

The Hertz algorithm based asset has surrendered such permissions, you're right that this is a troubling flag to not have permanently disabled.

kadawum · January 12, 2018, 09:59:42 PM

Thank you for the explanation. So, how can I determine for a specific asset if it was completely borrowed into existence or if some of the supply was issued by some centralized individual or organization?

Furthermore, in the BTWTY page (https://wallet.bitshares.org/#/asset/BTWTY) the asset is listed with the permission "ISSUER MAY TRANSFER ASSET BACK TO HIMSELF". So it seems that the individual who controls the issuing account (in this case estefantt) is able to just transfer the assets back to himself as he wishes. Is there a good reason that this permission flag is enabled? It seems that most other assets (HERO, BitUSD, ...) have this flag enabled as well. In the case of BitUSD the issuer is the committee-account, so that I assume that it is much harder to make use of this permission. But in the case of BTWTY and HERO, it seems that it makes the asset completely centralized and controllable by the one individual who is listed as issuer. Am I missing something here as well? Thank you.

yvv · January 12, 2018, 09:22:35 PM

They were shorted/borrowed into existence until global settlement happened. BTWTY suffered from black swan event along with some other assets. After black swap recovery was implemented, some assets were revived but BTWTY is still down. It looks like witnesses lost interest in producing price feeds for it. Yes, BTWTY was created by an individual. Everybody can create a bitasset.