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Offline cob

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Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« on: February 09, 2014, 07:15:13 PM »

Alright guys (and girls?) here is my question to you all.

Let's say you are some kid, making music in your parent's basement, or a band trying to make it big, how could you use this new technology to make it big?

For example, would you create an altcoin BandNameCoin or BandNameShare and SOMEHOW tie it with you financial success?

Seems that would take lots of overhead and involve the law. Which we want to avoid. The goal is to have everything trustless and taken care of by a few lines of code.
So say Justin Bieber had a coin 5 years ago. People could have heard his music and said "Yo, i like this kid, he has potential, I'll invest in Biebershares" and a few years later, bieber's net worth is millions of USD so that investment in musical-crypto-pennystock really paid off.
Now this solution involves the law. Since the worth of the biebercoins are physically or digitally attached to beibers bank account.


So anyway, I'm wondering. What's the solution to this?

Basically, I'd like to figure out how ANYONE can "go public" and have people invest in them via cryto-currency/equity/whatevers.

Simple way to do this?

:edit
Yes I have read Adam B Levine's idea about Vx but I'm not sue I grasp it completely. Feel free to explain it in your own words if it allows for this.
And if it does, how would you go about it? Step by step.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 07:16:59 PM by cob »
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline thazel72

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Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2014, 10:52:32 PM »
I do not know how simple this would be, but it would be cool to create an "Independent Record Label" which funded the development and promotion of artists by creating a DAC. Imagine how lively that discussion forum would be. You would literally have a battle of the bands to figure out who to fund, and artists would be signed under the distributed label. This would be taking the American Idol concept to a whole new level. I wouldn't think that you would create a new DAC for each artist..right??

Offline bytemaster

Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2014, 12:12:50 AM »
I spent 4 hours in a car thinking about this very issue and this is what I came up with:

1) Every song needs to be its own mini-IPO that fans can invest in.  You literally 'buy the song' and thus get a cut of any value appreciation the song receives. 

2) Then you create a radio station where the playlist is selected as a decentralized jukebox.  Fans pay to have their song bumped up in the playlist for others to hear in the hope of increasing the value of the IPO.   

3) When a song makes it to the top of the playlist and is then played, part of the proceeds are used to pay a buy back and destroy some shares in that song (thus paying a dividend to the song owners).   

4) Get many different streaming radio stations to convert the blockchain playlist into a traditional radio station that anyone can listen to.


Bam... entirely decentralized radio station and profit center for artists.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline cob

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Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2014, 03:37:16 AM »
I spent 4 hours in a car thinking about this very issue and this is what I came up with:

1) Every song needs to be its own mini-IPO that fans can invest in.  You literally 'buy the song' and thus get a cut of any value appreciation the song receives. 

2) Then you create a radio station where the playlist is selected as a decentralized jukebox.  Fans pay to have their song bumped up in the playlist for others to hear in the hope of increasing the value of the IPO.   

3) When a song makes it to the top of the playlist and is then played, part of the proceeds are used to pay a buy back and destroy some shares in that song (thus paying a dividend to the song owners).   

4) Get many different streaming radio stations to convert the blockchain playlist into a traditional radio station that anyone can listen to.


Bam... entirely decentralized radio station and profit center for artists.

This would depend on people buying the song though. People could still pirate it.
I guess it wouldn't matter that much since they can choose to pirate it, but not stand anything to gain if it goes big. The people that DO buy the mp3 would actually make a profit from investing in a song that grew in popularity.

OK I'm with you.

Now how could that be implemented? Every song is an altcoin? the mp3 can only be downloaded if you provide a private key?

The process has to be simple enough for non tech savy people to buy/invest in the song. So that means, no special programs required, no special players. The song has to be played on regular ass mp3 players.

What would you suggest? Care to elaborate?
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2014, 03:46:39 AM »
I would suggest a blockchain containing the hash of the song.  Then a content addressable database of songs.

I wouldn't have any limits on people freely downloading and playing it.  The point is that people pay to play music on a Juke Box... and fans of music would want their favorite songs played for everyone.   The blockchain performs this function of determining which songs plays in every time slice.

One block chain with accounting for all songs.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline cob

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Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2014, 04:16:32 AM »
I would suggest a blockchain containing the hash of the song.  Then a content addressable database of songs.

I wouldn't have any limits on people freely downloading and playing it.  The point is that people pay to play music on a Juke Box... and fans of music would want their favorite songs played for everyone.   The blockchain performs this function of determining which songs plays in every time slice.

One block chain with accounting for all songs.

But say I play it on my ipod 100x a year. without it being connected to the internet.

Does the blockchain really need to know this info? The fact that the product was purchased would be enough no?
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline cob

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Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2014, 04:22:42 AM »
Let's say I wanted to start a music career tomorrow.
recorded a song. And put it out there.
How would I make an IPO out of this?

If we can figure this out. It can bring these ideas to the masses as much as napster took P2P technology us all.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2014, 04:51:57 AM »
Let's say I wanted to start a music career tomorrow.
recorded a song. And put it out there.
How would I make an IPO out of this?

If we can figure this out. It can bring these ideas to the masses as much as napster took P2P technology us all.

Create a website where your song can be downloaded / promoted.   Download the wallet, pay to register your song in the block-chain by hash.   This will issue you 100% ownership of the song.  Then sell your shares via bids in the blockchain that can be accepted by your customers.   

Promote your song with all of your fans by encouraging them to buy into your music.  Money goes from your fans to you... the more you sell of your song the more viral marketing you get....

For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline cob

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Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2014, 03:05:43 PM »
Let's say I wanted to start a music career tomorrow.
recorded a song. And put it out there.
How would I make an IPO out of this?

If we can figure this out. It can bring these ideas to the masses as much as napster took P2P technology us all.

Create a website where your song can be downloaded / promoted.   Download the wallet, pay to register your song in the block-chain by hash.   This will issue you 100% ownership of the song.  Then sell your shares via bids in the blockchain that can be accepted by your customers.   

Promote your song with all of your fans by encouraging them to buy into your music.  Money goes from your fans to you... the more you sell of your song the more viral marketing you get....
So you are sayIng to just have a premined altcoin? That the artist sells at the price of his choosing?
I could see that funding his career a la kickstarter, but what does the investor get out of this? What promise does he have in exchange. This would be a pyramid scheme no? Since the previous investor only depends on others wanting the coin/share afterwards. Bitcoin has value as a protocol. But this mybandcoin would truly be backed by nothing no?
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2014, 03:57:32 PM »
Let's say I wanted to start a music career tomorrow.
recorded a song. And put it out there.
How would I make an IPO out of this?

If we can figure this out. It can bring these ideas to the masses as much as napster took P2P technology us all.

Create a website where your song can be downloaded / promoted.   Download the wallet, pay to register your song in the block-chain by hash.   This will issue you 100% ownership of the song.  Then sell your shares via bids in the blockchain that can be accepted by your customers.   

Promote your song with all of your fans by encouraging them to buy into your music.  Money goes from your fans to you... the more you sell of your song the more viral marketing you get....
So you are sayIng to just have a premined altcoin? That the artist sells at the price of his choosing?
I could see that funding his career a la kickstarter, but what does the investor get out of this? What promise does he have in exchange. This would be a pyramid scheme no? Since the previous investor only depends on others wanting the coin/share afterwards. Bitcoin has value as a protocol. But this mybandcoin would truly be backed by nothing no?

All coins are backed by the markets expected valuation.  Now lets establish some things here that you missed:

1) All coins are on one chain, per-song not per-artist.   
2) This same chain would sport a juke-box function where people PAY to have their favorite songs played/bumped to the top.  Effectively, people and bands pay to advertise their music by having it played on any streaming radio station that choose to honor the blockchain playlist.... they would do this for ad revenue independent of the blockchain.
3) Anytime someone pays to have their favorite song bumped up in the playlist queue a dividend is payed to the owners of the song.

Conclusion: shares in a song earn you income proportional to the popularity of the song.   Thus songs are backed by their popularity and popularity is the measure of value held by a song.




For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2014, 04:00:48 PM »
Let's say I wanted to start a music career tomorrow.
recorded a song. And put it out there.
How would I make an IPO out of this?

If we can figure this out. It can bring these ideas to the masses as much as napster took P2P technology us all.

Create a website where your song can be downloaded / promoted.   Download the wallet, pay to register your song in the block-chain by hash.   This will issue you 100% ownership of the song.  Then sell your shares via bids in the blockchain that can be accepted by your customers.   

Promote your song with all of your fans by encouraging them to buy into your music.  Money goes from your fans to you... the more you sell of your song the more viral marketing you get....
So you are sayIng to just have a premined altcoin? That the artist sells at the price of his choosing?
I could see that funding his career a la kickstarter, but what does the investor get out of this? What promise does he have in exchange. This would be a pyramid scheme no? Since the previous investor only depends on others wanting the coin/share afterwards. Bitcoin has value as a protocol. But this mybandcoin would truly be backed by nothing no?

All coins are backed by the markets expected valuation.  Now lets establish some things here that you missed:

1) All coins are on one chain, per-song not per-artist.   
2) This same chain would sport a juke-box function where people PAY to have their favorite songs played/bumped to the top.  Effectively, people and bands pay to advertise their music by having it played on any streaming radio station that choose to honor the blockchain playlist.... they would do this for ad revenue independent of the blockchain.
3) Anytime someone pays to have their favorite song bumped up in the playlist queue a dividend is payed to the owners of the song.

Conclusion: shares in a song earn you income proportional to the popularity of the song.   Thus songs are backed by their popularity and popularity is the measure of value held by a song.

I suspect you could add a 'dedication feature' to the blockchain and thus demand for songs suitable for dedication will be boosted by romantic types, etc.   
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2014, 04:39:15 PM »
I would suggest a blockchain containing the hash of the song.  Then a content addressable database of songs.

I wouldn't have any limits on people freely downloading and playing it.  The point is that people pay to play music on a Juke Box... and fans of music would want their favorite songs played for everyone.   The blockchain performs this function of determining which songs plays in every time slice.

One block chain with accounting for all songs.

But say I play it on my ipod 100x a year. without it being connected to the internet.

Does the blockchain really need to know this info? The fact that the product was purchased would be enough no?

We are not attempting to control the distribution of songs or restrict people playing it or implement any kind of DRM.   So we must assume all songs are freely available to everyone to download and play, we just create incentives for people to actually BUY into the song that are not based upon restricting copies.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline cob

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Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2014, 12:12:34 AM »
i see a new thread's been created focused on your radio DAC idea.

So allow me to jump back a bit and take this thread to a slightly different niche.

I have a business idea, but I don't know how doable it is because of the whole, can musicians create their own coin thingy.

I would like to build a website (and mobile app no doubt) that would be kinda like youtube. Only just audio for now.

You can create a profile (your band, yourself as a singer, a podcaster, comedian, etc.) where you upload your audio content.
When people listen to your stuff, they could, like, share, follow just like usual, only now you could also "Tip" with crypto.
Nothing crazy so far. I mean, if youtube or soundcloub started adding tips it would eliminate the purpose of my site.
The button that would really change everything is the "invest" button.

Where you could invest in shares or coins of said artist.
They would be purchased throught bitcoin or whatever other crypto. So the site would be an exchange but a purely crypto based exchange, no fiat involved whatsoever. Way easier on regulation!

I think Something like this would be great for introducing the masses to all these concepts. Get your average joe to "buy stock" in something he's sure will be popular. "omg the new timberlake song!"

Music, it seemed to me, was the tip of the spear in the whole internet revolution. It's what go everyone to start filesharing, it's what started the P2P thing. Started the decentralization, get people to torrent stuff, etc.

If music can be what makes kids BUY their first stock (bankless baby!) at the age of 13, and sell it, trade it. That would be amazing.
The goal is also of course to make it super easy for anyone to just create a profile, and create their own coin/share to fund their aspiring careers.
And since Bitcoin is the reserve currency for these new coins, great for everyone. No dilution objections.

So there's my busiess idea.
An exchange website. No fiat.
THE place from music. all in high quality, uploaded by the artists, no copyright infringements, no ads (of course it COULD be added by the artist if he wished)
People could like, share, follow, tip, and invest in a song/artist.
incentive to get your music out for free.
incentive to SHARE new music to the world, not just out of altruism but out of greed and selfishness. (gotta harness the power of those human traits haha!)

I'm sure this could one day be a DAC too. Would put me out of business ahha but I think a website à la youtube would be great to introduce the masses to these new concepts and possibilities. Sort of a stepping stone. A site to bridge the gap.

What do you think?

The only thing missing (and it's a huge thing!), is the coin/share. I need to have a system where creating your coin is as easy as creating a facebook profile. All coins on the site would be identical copies of the other, only the name and logo would change.
Now, HOW oh HOW, would the value of it track the artist/song....
That's the question.
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2014, 12:32:35 AM »
Ok... here's the deal, I want your site created and I want it to use my Radio DAC as the back-end. 

The act of uploading a song will automatically create a new coin type.  You don't need a whole new block chain for every song.   

If you can find a team and start building the website I would fund the backend DAC.   This is actually a great proposal for a Shark Tank competition. 

How do you tie the price of the coin to the value of the song?  You pay dividends from download requests.  You can have the songs available for literally $0.10 and 99% of the cost is paid to the owners of the song.   (All of the fans that are invested into the song).   

You combine your website with the radio station / juke box and you will have a viral system that could give Pandora a run for its money.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline canuck

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Re: Revolution in music. How would one go about it?
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2014, 01:51:02 AM »
very interested, I have several bands with our own material.

 

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