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Offline bytemaster

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Offline toast

Re: Video - Invictus Questions Vitalik of Ethereum
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2014, 03:12:40 AM »
Solid. Way ahead of the game.
Ethereum network participants will fund the discovery of effective DACs while I3 quietly makes money off of them.
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Offline Stan

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Re: Video - Invictus Questions Vitalik of Ethereum
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2014, 03:20:47 AM »
Solid. Way ahead of the game.
Ethereum network participants will fund the discovery of effective DACs while I3 quietly makes money off of them.

In a competitive arena, one cannot assume that a more profitable solution will not emerge for any business you deploy.  Best to start out as profitable as possible ... why forfeit the very first obvious move to your competitors?

I once pulled a 3-move "fool's mate" gambit on my freshman dormitory's chess champion because he got cocky. 

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Offline Empirical1

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Re: Video - Invictus Questions Vitalik of Ethereum
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2014, 03:47:40 AM »
Great video, I don't understand some technical aspects very well, so this might be a dumb question.

1. Exchanges are already running their own trading systems that only reference the bitcoin network when bitcoin are deposited or withdrawn from the exchange. So exchanges could in theory run their own separate blockchain which would be more transparent and verifiable while your funds are in the exchange system and only reference bitcoin when you withdraw or deposit bitcoin from that exchange/possibly future blockchain. Is this kind of how off-chain stuff could work?

As to why new dacs might attach to Ethereum...

2. Is ethereum's USP maybe that it's being done with Goldman Sachs involvement?

What if GS make Ethereum the only legal 'base' crypto and Goldman Sachs also give it the only legal Western crypto to fiat gateway/exchanges.

So the only legal Western exchanges are run by them and you can only trade fiat in and out of Ethereum. (They make laws so that the only Crypto Western online retailers can legally accept is  Ethereum as well.)

Then lots would tag onto ethereum because whatever virtual assets/dacs they create will have to be traded out into ethereum if people want to exchange them for fiat or buy stuff from large online businesses.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Video - Invictus Questions Vitalik of Ethereum
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2014, 03:58:31 AM »
Quote
1. Exchanges are already running their own trading systems that only reference the bitcoin network when bitcoin are deposited or withdrawn from the exchange. So exchanges could in theory run their own separate blockchain which would be more transparent and verifiable while your funds are in the exchange system and only reference bitcoin when you withdraw or deposit bitcoin from that exchange/possibly future blockchain. Is this kind of how off-chain stuff could work?

Yes, you do not need a blockchain to be peer-to-peer unless it is subject to government shutdown.   Centralized blockchains are just as useful and more efficient so long as they are widely replicated across many servers.
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Offline Mrrr

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Re: Video - Invictus Questions Vitalik of Ethereum
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2014, 03:08:23 PM »
Great video, I don't understand some technical aspects very well, so this might be a dumb question.

1. Exchanges are already running their own trading systems that only reference the bitcoin network when bitcoin are deposited or withdrawn from the exchange. So exchanges could in theory run their own separate blockchain which would be more transparent and verifiable while your funds are in the exchange system and only reference bitcoin when you withdraw or deposit bitcoin from that exchange/possibly future blockchain. Is this kind of how off-chain stuff could work?

As to why new dacs might attach to Ethereum...

2. Is ethereum's USP maybe that it's being done with Goldman Sachs involvement?

What if GS make Ethereum the only legal 'base' crypto and Goldman Sachs also give it the only legal Western crypto to fiat gateway/exchanges.

So the only legal Western exchanges are run by them and you can only trade fiat in and out of Ethereum. (They make laws so that the only Crypto Western online retailers can legally accept is  Ethereum as well.)

Then lots would tag onto ethereum because whatever virtual assets/dacs they create will have to be traded out into ethereum if people want to exchange them for fiat or buy stuff from large online businesses.

2> I believe the only people who are, at this moment, having problems getting fiat in and out of the system are people outside of (western) Europe. Germany for example has bitcoin.de, an exchange ran by Fidor Bank, all perfectly legal. I just sold 100EUR worth of BTC to a webshop here in the Netherlands. Fill in bank account; send BTC; money is on my account within the hour. Buying goes just as easily and instantly through my online banking account. All perfectly legal.

The issues, and dangers, seem to lie in the USA's antiquated banking system and its reliance on Credit Card companies. So indeed you should keep a sharp eye on a private party attempting to hijack the gateway system. People are worried about BTC becoming centralized, where they should perhaps worry about they attempts at erecting a wall surrounding the ecosystem. Where you either buy from a corporate gateway or buy from the back of a trunk.

Offline stuartcharles

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Re: Video - Invictus Questions Vitalik of Ethereum
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2014, 11:23:50 AM »
http://vimeo.com/user24356268/review/86370915/8dfc523724

Great, i like it, but what i don't get is why do you all keep letting each other know where your flaws lie? I know the "right" answer is that you don't care who wins so long as its the best outcome, but lets be honest its human nature to want everyone to do well but its also human nature to be competitive and what to win. In Fact its one of the reasons I have put moor investment into you than the competitors, I see you are competitive.

So back to my original question, why not let the competition fail? and why not keep your good ideas under your hat until launch?

Offline luckybit

Re: Video - Invictus Questions Vitalik of Ethereum
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2014, 02:20:19 PM »
http://vimeo.com/user24356268/review/86370915/8dfc523724

This is excellent, we need more of these sorts of videos where entrepreneurs q&a each other.

Good format.

http://vimeo.com/user24356268/review/86370915/8dfc523724

Great, i like it, but what i don't get is why do you all keep letting each other know where your flaws lie? I know the "right" answer is that you don't care who wins so long as its the best outcome, but lets be honest its human nature to want everyone to do well but its also human nature to be competitive and what to win. In Fact its one of the reasons I have put moor investment into you than the competitors, I see you are competitive.

So back to my original question, why not let the competition fail? and why not keep your good ideas under your hat until launch?

The competition is centralized. Like the central bank. The more centralized it is the more we should view it as the competition in my opinion. Ethereum seeks to be decentralized so it's not really competition since that is what we all want.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 02:44:26 PM by luckybit »
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Offline bytemaster

Re: Video - Invictus Questions Vitalik of Ethereum
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2014, 03:13:00 PM »
People have to chose what to invest in and are always asking me the same questions.  I view it more as a means to teach than to put down ethereum.  I think they have a place.


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Offline Empirical1

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Re: Video - Invictus Questions Vitalik of Ethereum
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2014, 04:16:24 PM »
http://vimeo.com/user24356268/review/86370915/8dfc523724

This is excellent, we need more of these sorts of videos where entrepreneurs q&a each other.

Good format.


 +5%, I agree, good format.

I don't always have the time to watch presentations from conferences so these little bite-size videos of relevant information which has got a nice basic edit with titles as well is very useful. (Even if I don't understand everything.)

This one was also nice because you could see the group of people hanging around listening to your exchange, so you get a sense of the excitement/interest and the buzz as well, which you don't sometimes get just seeing a person talking on stage.

Offline NewMine

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Re: Video - Invictus Questions Vitalik of Ethereum
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2014, 05:29:59 PM »
You may have helped them along by pointing out their flaws in public. If their system is flawed, you should've let them figure out the hard way. The consumer and the market will figure out very fast which is a better system. I do understand you are probably looking for more investments and attention but going on the attack before either of you have released your product only benefits the people already in your camp and may make the outsiders wait to see who survives before investing in the ideas. 

I also understand the ex CEO is on their team now and there may be bad blood between you guys. I think all focus should be on Bitshares release.  These pokes at the competitor may not be so becoming.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Video - Invictus Questions Vitalik of Ethereum
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2014, 12:17:33 PM »
You may have helped them along by pointing out their flaws in public. If their system is flawed, you should've let them figure out the hard way. The consumer and the market will figure out very fast which is a better system. I do understand you are probably looking for more investments and attention but going on the attack before either of you have released your product only benefits the people already in your camp and may make the outsiders wait to see who survives before investing in the ideas. 

I also understand the ex CEO is on their team now and there may be bad blood between you guys. I think all focus should be on Bitshares release.  These pokes at the competitor may not be so becoming.

Thank you for saying this.  I have had many questions on this and, in all honesty, initially jumped the gun on my assessment of the situation.  Personally it still seems odd to me Hoskinson just up and left, then a few months later words of "19 Year Old Genius creates BitCoin 2.0", but then again it might be nothing.

Really would like clarity on this too... 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 12:19:59 PM by fuznuts »
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Offline Empirical1

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Re: Video - Invictus Questions Vitalik of Ethereum
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2014, 05:23:31 PM »
You may have helped them along by pointing out their flaws in public. If their system is flawed, you should've let them figure out the hard way. The consumer and the market will figure out very fast which is a better system. I do understand you are probably looking for more investments and attention but going on the attack before either of you have released your product only benefits the people already in your camp and may make the outsiders wait to see who survives before investing in the ideas. 

I also understand the ex CEO is on their team now and there may be bad blood between you guys. I think all focus should be on Bitshares release.  These pokes at the competitor may not be so becoming.

I disagree. It's not a case of Vitalik, going, 'dang! I didn't think of that, ha ha thanks!' These exchanges are for the benefit of us the audience. The weak spots are known to him. Personally I think it's about communicating and explaining that those are indeed weak spots and showing an audience that even when challenged with them directly, a satisfactory response is not forthcoming.

It's like central banking and the debt based money system. It's obviously a bad system, but confronting central bankers in a public exchange about it, wouldn't cause them to go - 'Oh, oops we made a mistake, thanks, let's go back to gold' - it would merely help to educate the public on it's flaws and demonstrate that they don't have satisfactory answers. Without these kind of exchanges, the public may use an inferior system simply because they don't understand how it is flawed/exploiting them.

Offline CWEvans

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Re: Video - Invictus Questions Vitalik of Ethereum
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2014, 07:32:25 PM »
These exchanges are for the benefit of us the audience... Without these kind of exchanges, the public may use an inferior system simply because they don't understand how it is flawed/exploiting them.

A long-time friend of mine has a rule for online discusions: Don't write for your opponent; write for the lurkers.


 

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