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Offline alan

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Ethereum
« on: February 22, 2014, 06:56:53 AM »

Running around the ole inter-web trying to read as much as possible when i stumbled into this.
what are your thoughts on  Ethereum? Are they over ambitious or do they have something there.  And how would bit shares benifit (or not) should they be sucessful with their project?

http://www.ethereum.org

Offline onceuponatime

Re: Ethereum
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2014, 07:55:42 AM »

Offline alan

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Re: Ethereum
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2014, 08:12:35 AM »
thanks man, found a lot of info about this topic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XA4O3uOxm5A&feature=player_detailpage

charleshoskinson

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Re: Ethereum
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2014, 05:16:15 PM »
Probably the easiest video on the topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoqKa1r83cM. We will be doing some technical Q&As with AVG antivirus kinda like a Google style thing in March and I'll be on the Keiser report on Feb 27th.

I'm not entirely sure why Dan and Brian felt the need to discuss our blockchain at this stage much less make a video. We are in the PoC stage of things and have a lot of flexibility in the design of our technology.

Offline yellowecho

Re: Ethereum
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2014, 06:04:05 PM »
Probably the easiest video on the topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoqKa1r83cM.

Nice to see you on the forum, Charles!  I hope to see future collaborations between the Ethereum and Bitshares teams.  8)
696c6f766562726f776e696573

Offline MktDirector

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Re: Ethereum
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2014, 06:37:56 PM »
Welcome to the forum, Charles.  Exciting things happening in our industry. B

Offline alan

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Re: Ethereum
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2014, 08:07:57 PM »
great debate found on you tube :
Let's Talk Bitcoin - Guests on the panel include Ethereum's Charles Hoskinson, MasterCoin's David Johnston and Invictus Innovations Dan Larimer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=w-9miCOsg4g

charleshoskinson

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Re: Ethereum
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2014, 08:14:45 PM »
Quote
Nice to see you on the forum, Charles!  I hope to see future collaborations between the Ethereum and Bitshares teams.  8)

As I told Bo Shen and Stan, I would love to work with everyone in this industry towards common goals. That said, it does sadden me a bit when we have to now assume every time an Invictus employee asks us a question there will be a recorded 8 minute annotation explaining the flaws in our answer. That wasn't the company I founded's culture nor is it the culture of Ethereum.

We have developers on four continents and from three different universities now studying and experimenting in python, go, and c++. We also have the creator of elliptic curve encryption consulting. Everything we do involves experimentation and rapid community driven iteration. We examine the common problems and then come up with some ideas. The philosophy is freedom of choice with particular parameters (on-chain off-chain; economic metrics, etc).

Dan has an economic agenda in his work and it shows. Some people like it and want it and others don't. That's fine, but it's fundamentally against the principles of Ethereum to pick winners and losers. The market will sort all of this out.

Offline bytemaster

Re: Ethereum
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2014, 11:19:23 PM »
Our goal in everything we do is education and production of value.  I really would like to work with the Ethereum team and to bring the best possible solutions to the market.    When I ask hard questions in videos it is because I really do want the answer and am looking for ways to improve upon what I am doing.  Having spent weeks trying to solve some of the problems Ethereum claims to have solved I was very interested in hearing how it was done so that we could incorporate and improve upon them.

In this market there is extreme hunger for information and few have the experience necessary to fully evaluate the ideas on the market today (Mastercoin, Etheruem, Nxt, Counterparty, BitShares) and so I am offering opinions about existing approaches.   I think the ethereum team should take my critiques and provide clarity and solutions because if there is something I do not understand then I really do want to know and everyone can benefit.

Economics is the foundation of all human action and all lifeforms must produce more than they consume or die.  The lack of a focus on the economics of a system is the major flaw that Ethereum could address and I would be happy to discuss it.   As you say you are still in the proof of concept stage which means that my critiques are nothing less than free help I am offering your team.  Many have suggested I shouldn't be giving you all free advice because you still have time to change things. 

Perhaps my advice is not welcome, but I have not seen any responses about how I was wrong.  So far all I have seen is accusations of being 'mean' and insinuations that my there is something wrong with the questions I am asking.   I believe my questions are legitimate and deserve answers.
For the latest updates checkout my blog: http://bytemaster.bitshares.org
Anything said on these forums does not constitute an intent to create a legal obligation or contract between myself and anyone else.   These are merely my opinions and I reserve the right to change them at any time.

Offline Troglodactyl

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Re: Ethereum
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2014, 11:54:25 PM »
...

Dan has an economic agenda in his work and it shows. Some people like it and want it and others don't. That's fine, but it's fundamentally against the principles of Ethereum to pick winners and losers. The market will sort all of this out.

Can you explain what you mean by this?  Autonomous systems are by nature as dependent on solid economic designs as they are on competent programming.  Would you say that Satoshi Nakamoto displayed a C++ agenda in his work?  How exactly is anyone here picking winners and losers more or less than anyone else?

Offline wasthatawolf

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Re: Ethereum
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2014, 03:03:24 AM »
Egos are the biggest barriers to collaboration.

Offline fuzzy

Re: Ethereum
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2014, 07:09:16 PM »
I have simply been perplexed as to why Charles Hoskinson left the company he "founded" to start a new "organization", then tout this new organization's work as the next magical wonderbread with no real-life stuff to back it up. 

I really do not care how one cuts it, if they pay attention they will see an obvious tendency for Charles AND Invictus to never really talk about what happened.  There are many unknowns as to why he left Invictus and to my knowledge this has not been ironed out and explained to the community (a community he is asking to donate a "cap" of 60,000 BTC to mind you).  I mean what would keep him from just up and leaving this new organization he "founded".  Lots of credit taken, none really deserved imo...Invictus has done the work since he "founded" them and left from what I have seen since PTS launch.  Other than his prior efforts in teaching about Bitcoin Technology (which was very commendable) and making constant marketing rounds for a product yet to exist beyond it's concept. 

Bytemaster and his crew, on the other hand, pushed through and continue to actively build that which Charles Hoskinson "founded" and left.  If there is something I am missing please tell me, because this is something that our entire community deserves to understand. 

If you ask me, I tend to get, as Adam says in one of his posts, "that ripple queeziness" in my gut when thinking about Ethereum.  I do not see it as changing the paradigm in which we currently live to lift people out of debt slavery...but instead incentivize something very similar to the current system...only 2.0, autonomous and harder for the little guy to fight against if it goes bad. 

I know my take on this will piss a few people off, but I suppose that is what you get when there is so much Buzz and no real explanations to anything other than "its kind of magical" and "I founded Invictus", which is an IMPLIED statement that you think it could be done better (or something more sinister).  Not speaking to these points only forces people to have to default to the "something more sinister" way of thinking...
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 07:23:19 PM by fuznuts »
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline fuzzy

Re: Ethereum
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2014, 07:15:28 PM »
and, btw, I have not seen anything really answering Dan's questions...which are valid from my (investors) standpoint.

And trust me man...when I first heard about Ethereum, I was interested!  However, it will require me actually believing in you, who left Invictus to make a One-Blockchain-to-rule-them-all platform. 

What I wait to see is for someone to leave your organization, fork your work and put a huge marketing campaign behind it...which, like you said in the first debate, would be frustrating...

I wonder how Dan, Stan and the rest of the team feel...despite the "photo-ops" provided to ensure the community there is no bad blood.   

If I were you I would feel that the "culture" that apparently saddens you would fall directly on my shoulders for MY ROLE in its manifestation.

You feel like a salesman while Bytemaster feels like an aspiring paradigm-shifter who lacks the salesman's charm but has the engineer's ingenuity and idealism. Just sucks you have gotten so many Bitcoiners huffing "Ether".

Harsh words, I know...especially considering it is pretty tough to get me this confounded.  I would love to have my opinion changed.

*note* for a brief history and epidemiology of inhalants (including Ether), please note:  http://books.google.com/books?id=fOfxoQm_a7MC&pg=PA276&dq=neurology+%22Diethyl+ether%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=a9EcU-_7CIfMkQfZ4YGoDg&ved=0CEIQ6AEwAA
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 08:45:30 PM by fuznuts »
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

Offline fuzzy

Re: Ethereum
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2014, 08:52:10 PM »
WhaleShares==DKP; BitShares is our Community! 
ShareBits and WhaleShares = Love :D

 

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