Author Topic: DACIndex.com now live  (Read 21040 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Except Protoshares should be *more* valuable now than before the split, because now the model has been "proven" and it's no longer speculative if PTS will deliver you another product without losing your PTS

I wouldn't call it "proven" until BTS X actually launches and works. It would have been trivial to prove the model with any shitty altcoin DAC (MMC is pretty much this), but somehow I think things will look different if people discover PTS through BTS X.

By the way I would highly suggest Counterparty, I'd even help you out for some LTBcoins =]

Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline AdamBLevine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 492
    • View Profile
    • Let's Talk Bitcoin!
Toast:
You're correct, I looked at Invictus products early for this, and my early documents lay out a scenario where 20% of LTBcoins created (which will be the only way to buy advertising time on the LTB network) were given to PTS/AGS holders, but in my later conversations with Daniel he suggested we use another platform.

The choice is between Mastercoin and Counterparty.   Mastercoin has more resources and I know the team well, but they have lots of baggage.  Counterparty has a bunch of legitimacy and has been much faster/cleaner with development, but they cannot help make LTBcoin happen besides giving me the same tools as are available to everyone else.  That's important because this stuff is still hard, in six months it won't be but right now it still is.


Why not have a simple way for developers to start an AGS 2.0 fund for any qualified DAC team that wants to develop - let them do more fund raising on our forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There already is a way, there are two independent implementions of the  code for taking genesis block snapshots.

People keep making suggestions like this... I still haven't seen *any* development effort publicly ask for AGS money. I'm not convinced invictus is just hoarding it as much as waiting for anyone who can do anything with it to show up.

There are two bounty proposals up right now waiting for any response from invictus.   And apparently the independent implementations weren't good enough for Barwizi, who is a developer himself and who fulfilled many bounties in the PTS ecosystem but who could not figure out how to honor PTS holders.  Also notice AGS holders were completely ignored.   

Most people aren't advertising the fact that they ask for money, they want to make sure it happens before they talk about it otherwise not getting it looks like you tried and failed, which implies you might not be worth other people funding.

So you're not going to see this happen in public, but look around - How many new development teams have jumped onboard creating DACs with Invictus?  The forums are an echo chamber, I can't even tell you how many conversations I've had with people who want to know if I'm still following invictus because they want to jump.

I wouldn't take it that far - I3 still offers enough internal development to hold PTS at ~$6 after the Bts dividend, which is based mostly on the fact that i3 will produce new DACs on their own - much less because of potential 3rd party initiatives.  Anyone of these potential jumpers must see it differently



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Except Protoshares should be *more* valuable now than before the split, because now the model has been "proven" and it's no longer speculative if PTS will deliver you another product without losing your PTS

The price decline has been because people see nothing on the horizon that would do the same, so instead of this being the first in a successful cascade of launches, it's the air being let out of the balloon. 

If this is an ecosystem, it needs multiple development teams working towards the same broad goals, going about it in their unique ways.   If this is a crowdfunded monopoly we're doing great.
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Just saw this on the Mastercoin forum http://mastercointalk.org/index.php?topic=193.0 about Adam's upcoming big decision between Mastercoin and Protoshares/Bitshares for his new coin.

Like to hear more about the decision-making process Adam (aka Andy by those in the Mastercoin forum).

I'm curious about how he would have used PTS/BTS to launch his asset? Like just make your own altcoin that honors PTS?
You can still honor PTS if your asset is issued via Mastercoin, though honestly I wouldn't expect him to.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline mint chocolate chip

Just saw this on the Mastercoin forum http://mastercointalk.org/index.php?topic=193.0 about Adam's upcoming big decision between Mastercoin and Protoshares/Bitshares for his new coin.

Like to hear more about the decision-making process Adam (aka Andy by those in the Mastercoin forum).

bitbro

  • Guest

Why not have a simple way for developers to start an AGS 2.0 fund for any qualified DAC team that wants to develop - let them do more fund raising on our forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There already is a way, there are two independent implementions of the  code for taking genesis block snapshots.

People keep making suggestions like this... I still haven't seen *any* development effort publicly ask for AGS money. I'm not convinced invictus is just hoarding it as much as waiting for anyone who can do anything with it to show up.

There are two bounty proposals up right now waiting for any response from invictus.   And apparently the independent implementations weren't good enough for Barwizi, who is a developer himself and who fulfilled many bounties in the PTS ecosystem but who could not figure out how to honor PTS holders.  Also notice AGS holders were completely ignored.   

Most people aren't advertising the fact that they ask for money, they want to make sure it happens before they talk about it otherwise not getting it looks like you tried and failed, which implies you might not be worth other people funding.

So you're not going to see this happen in public, but look around - How many new development teams have jumped onboard creating DACs with Invictus?  The forums are an echo chamber, I can't even tell you how many conversations I've had with people who want to know if I'm still following invictus because they want to jump.

I wouldn't take it that far - I3 still offers enough internal development to hold PTS at ~$6 after the Bts dividend, which is based mostly on the fact that i3 will produce new DACs on their own - much less because of potential 3rd party initiatives.  Anyone of these potential jumpers must see it differently



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Let's collect our complaints and suggestions here, as obviously communicating on the forum is not enough:
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=3420.0
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline AdamBLevine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 492
    • View Profile
    • Let's Talk Bitcoin!
Adam please introduce me to these underfunded DAC developers, if you think that the problem is Invictus not releasing money I will gladly fund them personally

You're missing the point, they're not underfunded - they are unvested in the ecosystem, and while they have the resources to develop they do not have the resources to make a large capital expenditure on buying PTS up front.   This would not be a problem if there was a roadmap of progressive bounties laid out that set the things Invictus wants people to do, so they can make long term plans and build to reach the bounty.

and I've been offering to fund these teams for the last week or so since people started pitching them to me.   Imagine how many more funds I'd have available for this if I hadn't given 50% of my PTS for AGS, where the funds now sit, useless and vulnerable in the event Invictus gets clobbered by the federal government.    It was the move we were all incentivized to do, and I did it of my own accord because it was in what I perceived to be my financial best interest (more BTS per AGS than PTS) but it is rewarding Invictus for changing the deal and failing to deliver on their promises.   That's really unfortunate.
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline AdamBLevine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 492
    • View Profile
    • Let's Talk Bitcoin!
Why not have a simple way for developers to start an AGS 2.0 fund for any qualified DAC team that wants to develop - let them do more fund raising on our forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There already is a way, there are two independent implementions of the  code for taking genesis block snapshots.

People keep making suggestions like this... I still haven't seen *any* development effort publicly ask for AGS money. I'm not convinced invictus is just hoarding it as much as waiting for anyone who can do anything with it to show up.

There are two bounty proposals up right now waiting for any response from invictus.   And apparently the independent implementations weren't good enough for Barwizi, who is a developer himself and who fulfilled many bounties in the PTS ecosystem but who could not figure out how to honor PTS holders.  Also notice AGS holders were completely ignored.   

Most people aren't advertising the fact that they ask for money, they want to make sure it happens before they talk about it otherwise not getting it looks like you tried and failed, which implies you might not be worth other people funding.

So you're not going to see this happen in public, but look around - How many new development teams have jumped onboard creating DACs with Invictus?  The forums are an echo chamber, I can't even tell you how many conversations I've had with people who want to know if I'm still following invictus because they want to jump.
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Adam please introduce me to these underfunded DAC developers, if you think that the problem is Invictus not releasing money I will gladly fund them personally
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline AdamBLevine

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 492
    • View Profile
    • Let's Talk Bitcoin!
I work for a company that has 30 employees and makes in one year as much as ags funding does in 3 months. I think there is enough money there already.

Exactly

Money WAS the problem, and to fix it we got Angelshares.  Now Money is STILL the problem, but this time it's invictus's fault and the communities problem.

Why not have a simple way for developers to start an AGS 2.0 fund for any qualified DAC team that wants to develop - let them do more fund raising on our forum

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why work in the AGS/PTS ecosystem if you're going to fundraise into a new currency anyhow?   What exactly was the point of giving AGS funds to invictus if everybody has to raise their own funds and they don't care about incentivizing other companies to get involved with meaningful, outcome oriented bounties?    We've already seen multiple new coins launch who wanted to honor the PTS/AGS but did not see the value in it.   Those are just the public ones.
Email me at adam@letstalkbitcoin.com

Offline toast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4001
    • View Profile
  • BitShares: nikolai
Why not have a simple way for developers to start an AGS 2.0 fund for any qualified DAC team that wants to develop - let them do more fund raising on our forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There already is a way, there are two independent implementions of the  code for taking genesis block snapshots.

People keep making suggestions like this... I still haven't seen *any* development effort publicly ask for AGS money. I'm not convinced invictus is just hoarding it as much as waiting for anyone who can do anything with it to show up.
Do not use this post as information for making any important decisions. The only agreements I ever make are informal and non-binding. Take the same precautions as when dealing with a compromised account, scammer, sockpuppet, etc.

Offline CrazyCriple

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
I work for a company that has 30 employees and makes in one year as much as ags funding does in 3 months. I think there is enough money there already.

bitbro

  • Guest
Why not have a simple way for developers to start an AGS 2.0 fund for any qualified DAC team that wants to develop - let them do more fund raising on our forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline CrazyCriple

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
It will fix itself with the buzz and advent of new DACs.  I think that's your point, as well as Daniels


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In the last 48hrs I've spoken with a DAC development team lead who apparently approached invictus about developing their ecosystem on the AGS/PTS platform, but Invictus told them if they wanted to have a stake before they announce and develop their first platform they should "buy some while they're cheap"

This was weeks ago when the price was quite a bit higher.   Point is, there is no reason to jump into this ecosystem if you have no stake in it.  Invictus sucked up all the funds intended for investing and incentivizing development of the community and now is the boot standing on the neck of DAC development.

How exactly do you think "Buzz" happens?   Because there is good news and things are in development.     I don't understand why it makes sense to sit on 300,000PTS and over a thousand BTC if the plan is to not spend it incentivizing other people into the space.   Invictus said "AGS Funds will never be taken as profit" but they ARE using them to pay for salaries and general operating costs at invictus, so while it may not be "profit" they are PAYING THEMSELVES using these funds and not using them to incentivize other developers getting into their ecosystem, which was much of the intent of the fund if I recall correctly. 

A bounty literally is saying "IF someone does this thing we want done, to the specifications we require we guarantee to pay whoever does it this fixed amount"  So it's not like they're just throwing money around, they ONLY pay for results in this scenario.

I'm getting tired of saying the same obvious things.  I have been very patient but that is ending.

Adam makes a really good point. AGS Funds need to be invested properly. New developers I3 or 3rd party and marketing/customer education

bitbro

  • Guest
I really agree with you on this point.  Under current constraints, it seems creative funding methods will be needed to incentive DAC developers.  Telling developers to buy cheap will not work very well, esp. long run


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk